[thorn bird]

Having been laid up for a while with time on my hands, I was doing a lot of reading and listening. Amazing what you find and hear. Bits and pieces from newspapers, magazines and other media, some concerning aviation, some not necessarily about aviation but very relevant where parallels can be drawn to illustrate just why aviation regulation is so screwed up.

Opening gambit from News.com.au, confirmed that my suspicion the quoted cost of Sydney's new western airport appeared just a tad overinflated.

Julia Carlisle
Australian Associated Press

High-flying businessman John Wagner says he could build Sydney's second international airport for much less than its touted $6 billion pricetag.
Mr Wagner and his brothers were behind the Brisbane West Wellcamp Airport near Toowoomba that opened late 2014, the first major airport to be built from scratch in Australia since Melbourne's Tullamarine in 1970.
The airport, with its 2.87km runway capable of handling aircraft as big as a Boeing 747, took 19 months and 10 days to build, and cost $200 million.
Mr Wagner says he could build Sydney's Badgerys Creek airport in three years.
"We just can't see that it would cost that much, and the high-level work that we have internally here would indicate that it shouldn't cost that much," Mr Wagner told ABC on Tuesday.
The federal government last week committed to building the Badgerys Creek airport after Sydney Airport Corporation, which operates the existing Mascot airport, walked away, citing "considerable" risks.
"It is a vitally important project for western Sydney, for Sydney and the nation," Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull said in a statement.
Earthworks on Sydney's second international airport are due to start next year and is likely to be operational by late-2026.
Last year Infrastructure Australia costed the first stage of the Badgerys Creek airport at $5 billion.
Further details are to be outlined in Tuesday's federal budget.

I guess this just confirms that anything the Bureaucrats get mixed up in ends up costing the poor old taxpayer far more than it should.

[thorn bird]

Given the "Iron Ring's" apparent victory in the recent DAS selection process preserving their places at the trough and ensuring there will never be any meaningful reform of the regulator or the regulations, there's not much left but to take the piss out of them. Lead balloon has done that in fine style with some posts on UP.

Think he deserves an honorary key to the Tim Tam cupboard, what say you K.

Quote:

Regulation 53 of the Civil Aviation Regulations 1988:

Quote:

53 Display of certificates and epaulettes

(1) The holder of an air operator's certificate shall display a copy of the certificate:

(a) in a prominent place at the holder's primary place of business, and

(b) at the places and during the times directed by the Authority from time to time.

Penalty: 50 penalty units.

(2) An offence against subregulation (1) is an offence of strict liability.

(3) The holder of a commercial pilot's licence shall, when exercising the privileges of the licence, wear a shirt displaying at least one and no more than three epaulettes of a colour and dimensions as directed by the Authority from time to time.

Penalty: 50 penalty units.

(4) An offence against subregulation (3) is an offence of strict liability.

(5) The holder of an air transport pilot's licence shall, when exercising the privileges of the licence, wear a shirt displaying at least three and no more than four epaulettes of a colour and dimensions as directed by the Authority from time to time.

Penalty: 50 penalty units.

(6) An offence against subregulation (5) is an offence of strict liability.

and again:

I told you so:

Quote:

INSTRUMENT NUMBER: CASA 672/2001

CIVIL AVIATION ACT 1988

CIVIL AVIATION REGULATIONS 1988

DIRECTIONS UNDER REGULATION 53

I, BRUCE BYRON, Director of Aviation Safety, issue the following directions under regulation 53 of the Civil Aviation Regulations.

DISPLAY OF AIR OPERATORS CERTIFICATES

1. For the purposes of paragraph 53(1)(b) of the Civil Aviation Regulations, a copy of an air operators certificate must be displayed:

(a) on the inside of each passenger window of each aircraft being operated under the authority of the certificate;

(b) on the inside door of each lavatory in ground-based facilities occupied by or under the control of the holder of the certificate; and

© in braille format at each of the places specified in paragraphs 1(a) and 1(b) of this instrument.

DISPLAY OF EPAULETTES

2. For the purposes of subregulations 53(3) and 53(5) of the Civil Aviation Regulations, epaulettes must be:

(a) within 6 to 12 millimetres (inclusive) wide;

(b) within 45 to 65 millimetres (inclusive) long;

© in cases in which more than one epaulette is being displayed - spaced no further than 8 millimetres apart from the immediately adjacent epaulette;

(d) coloured gold or silver, with a reflectivity index of “Nightclub Visible”; and

(e) fire resistant in accordance with Australian Standard (AS) 1940-1993.

Note: Failure to comply with these directions is a strict liability offence, with a penalty of 50 penalty units.

[SIGNED BRUCE BYRON]

Gol Darn it again:

Here it is:
Quote:
Instrument number CASA EX10592/16

I, MARK SKIDMORE, Director of Aviation Safety, make this instrument under regulation 11.160 of the Civil Aviation Safety Regulations 1998 (CASR 1998).

[Signed MARK SKIDMORE]

Exemption – Civil Aviation Regulations 1988 regulation 53 Instrument 672/2001 – display of air operators certificates and epaulettes

1 Commencement

This instrument:

(a) commences on the day after registration; and

(b) is repealed at the end of 31 May 2019.

2 Definition

In this instrument:

Instrument means Civil Aviation Regulations 1988 regulation 53 Instrument 672/2001 – display of air operators certificates and epaulettes

Note: For the avoidance of doubt, Instrument does not mean this instrument.

3 Application

This instrument applies to persons subject to the Instrument.

Note: This instrument, therefore, applies to holders of air operators certificates and wearers of epaulettes.

4 Exemptions

(1) The persons mentioned in section 3 of this instrument are exempt from compliance with the Instrument, subject to compliance with the condition mentioned in section 5 of this instrument.

5 Condition

The exemption mentioned in section 4 of this instrument is subject to the condition mentioned in Schedule 1 of this instrument.

Schedule 1 Condition

The exemption mentioned in section 4 of this instrument, which has the effect of exempting persons from compliance with the Instrument, is subject to the condition that the person otherwise bound by the Instrument has read this far in this instrument without:

(a) pulling his or her hair out; or

(b) in the case of a person who is bald – uttering an expletive.

Note: A person will also be required to comply with the requirements of Subpart 1432.Q of CASR 1998 if those requirements apply to the person.

[Peetwo]

Having been laid up for a while with time on my hands, I was doing a lot of reading and listening. Amazing what you find and hear. Bits and pieces from newspapers, magazines and other media, some concerning aviation, some not necessarily about aviation but very relevant where parallels can be drawn to illustrate just why aviation regulation is so screwed up.

Opening gambit from News.com.au, confirmed that my suspicion the quoted cost of Sydney's new western airport appeared just a tad overinflated.

Julia Carlisle
Australian Associated Press

High-flying businessman John Wagner says he could build Sydney's second international airport for much less than its touted $6 billion pricetag.
Mr Wagner and his brothers were behind the Brisbane West Wellcamp Airport near Toowoomba that opened late 2014, the first major airport to be built from scratch in Australia since Melbourne's Tullamarine in 1970.
The airport, with its 2.87km runway capable of handling aircraft as big as a Boeing 747, took 19 months and 10 days to build, and cost $200 million.
Mr Wagner says he could build Sydney's Badgerys Creek airport in three years.
"We just can't see that it would cost that much, and the high-level work that we have internally here would indicate that it shouldn't cost that much," Mr Wagner told ABC on Tuesday.
The federal government last week committed to building the Badgerys Creek airport after Sydney Airport Corporation, which operates the existing Mascot airport, walked away, citing "considerable" risks.
"It is a vitally important project for western Sydney, for Sydney and the nation," Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull said in a statement.
Earthworks on Sydney's second international airport are due to start next year and is likely to be operational by late-2026.
Last year Infrastructure Australia costed the first stage of the Badgerys Creek airport at $5 billion.
Further details are to be outlined in Tuesday's federal budget.

I guess this just confirms that anything the Bureaucrats get mixed up in ends up costing the poor old taxpayer far more than it should.

& from ABC News online... :

Badgerys Creek: John Wagner says his firm could build western Sydney Airport in three years
AM
By David Coady
Updated about 4 hours ago
Tue 9 May 2017, 11:12am


Photo: John Wagner hopes to win the tender for the building of the new Sydney airport. (ABC News: Matt Eaton)
Related Story: Why building Sydney's second airport has fallen to the Government
Related Story: Government steps in to build second Sydney airport at Badgerys Creek

Map: Badgerys Creek 2171

The businessman behind the last airport to be built in Australia has said he could build Sydney's second airport in just three years and believes the cost estimate by the Government is excessive.

John Wagner told the ABC's AM program he could not understand why the estimate for the Badgerys Creek airport was as high as $6 billion.

Mr Wagner was the driving force behind the Brisbane-West Wellcamp Airport near Toowoomba, which opened in November 2014 after a frenetic construction that cost just $200 million.

The latest cost estimate for the new Badgerys Creek airport will be revealed in tonight's budget.

Mr Wagner said he was concerned at the time the Government may take to build the airport.

"I don't think it's inadvisable at all [for the Government to build the airport on its own]," he said.

"But what I am concerned about is because of their procurement process and finances... that it could take a lot longer than it needs to be.

"The reality is with Badgerys Creek, it could be going in sort of three years from now if everyone was of a like mind and actually wanted it to happen that quick. And I believe it should happen that quick."

'We're a bit miffed at that number'

Mr Wagner said he found it hard to believe the estimate, saying it "shouldn't cost that much".

"We're a bit miffed at that number... but until we're formally asked to tender for it by the Federal Government, we can't make a clear determination on that.

Timeline: Western Sydney airport



A Badgerys Creek airport has been almost 50 years in the making. Take a look back at how governments have grappled with the environmental issues and concerns from residents.

"When it comes to construction, we were very fortunate with Wellcamp [Airport], that we had a lot of material onsite, we worked 24 hours a day, seven days a week. So, we could do it quickly.

"So, it's a matter of really analysing the whole construction site once the documents come out to bid."

But Mr Wagner said he would "definitely" be open to taking on the building and running of the western Sydney airport.

"We would do the construction in a syndicate, and that's the way most of these big projects work,' he said.

"As far as the operations of it go, we could do that very successfully on our own."
As for the rail issue, Mr Wagner said the Government needed to establish the line to Badgerys Creek in time for the airport's opening as it would have a direct impact on the amount of traffic and profitability.

"I would urge the Government to relook at the timing on that. It doesn't have to be 10 years away," he said.

"I think it's important that they can take a much shorter horizon time to build it and get it operational."

Mr Wagner said he did not see Sydney's second airport as a business risk and believed it would attract significant traffic.

By focusing on passenger movement, he said, freight would follow

Developer outlines three-year timetable for second Sydney airport
David Coady reported this story on Tuesday, May 9, 2017 08:20:00

| MP3 download

The businessman behind the last airport to be built in Australia has told AM he could build Sydney's second airport in just three years.

John Wagner can't see why cost estimates are as high as $6 billion.

He was the driving force behind the Brisbane West Wellcamp Airport near Toowoomba.

It opened in November 2014, after a frenetic construction that cost just $200 million.

The latest cost estimate for the airport at Badgerys Creek will be revealed in the budget.


Featured: John Wagner, Wagners chairman

MTF...P2

[Peetwo]

Update: Wagners to bid for Badgerys build -

Via the Oz:

Wagner family flies a $3.5bn bid to build Badgerys airport

John Wagner, with one of his helicopters at Mt Coot-tha in Brisbane, plans to put in a tender to build and operate the new Badgerys Creek airport. Picture: Glenn Hunt
 
Jamie Walker, Jennine Khalik
The Australian
12:00AM May 10, 2017

Queensland’s rich-listed Wagner family will bid to build and operate western Sydney’s Badgerys Creek airport, confident it can do the job for less and sooner than envisaged by the federal government.

Announcing the family company would go for the huge contract, most likely in partnership with a top-tier construction firm, director John Wagner said the new gateway should be operational within three years of work starting on the greenfield site.

And he insisted his company could build the new airport west of Sydney for “well south” of the flagged $5 billion to $6bn price tag, with his projections of the cost starting at $3.5bn. “If you are going to spend the money, you spend it quickly, throw resources at the job … get it done and start to get a return on it,” Mr Wagner said. “You need a good architect, terminal engineers, good pavement engineers … and you need to look at things laterally. The rest is pretty straight forward.”

Delivering the government’s 2017-18 budget last night, Treasurer Scott Morrison said earthworks would start at Badgerys Creek in the second half of next year to complete the project by 2026.

Mr Wagner is in a unique position to know what it takes to get a major airport off the ground: the family firm defied the sceptics to build from scratch the first international-standard general purpose airport to come off the drawing board in Australia for nearly 50 years outside his home town of Toowoomba.

The Wagner Group’s Brisbane West Wellcamp Airport can handle airliners up to the Boeing 747 and was completed in just 19 months and 11 days, opening in November 2014.

Scheduled services now fly to Sydney, Melbourne, Townsville and Cairns, while Cathay Pacific Airways has looped Wellcamp into a weekly freight run to Hong Kong. Chartered tourist flights to China have begun.

Urban Infrastructure Minister Paul Fletcher said yesterday he met Mr Wagner and his brothers earlier this year, and the company would be welcome to tender for the project when it was put to market by the government.

“There is considerable interest in the construction market to build the western Sydney airport,” Mr Fletcher said. “The government has been engaging with the construction market for some time on the project.”

Questioning the preliminary costing of up to $6bn for stage 1 infrastructure at Badgerys Creek including a 3.7km-long runway, passenger terminal, taxiway and tarmac areas, Mr Wagner said: “To me, that seems like a very big number.”

From the limited specifications released in a government project plan last December, he believed the family company could build the airport for “somewhere north” of $3.5bn but well less than $6bn.

“We have done very preliminary work off the limited information in the public domain,” Mr Wagner said. “But until we see the tender documents we won’t know what’s included, what’s not, so it is very difficult to comment with any great certainty.”

Describing the $6bn price estimate as “hard to believe”, Mr Wagner told ABC radio yesterday that the project “shouldn’t cost that much”.

The Wagner Group ran every aspect of the $200 million Wellcamp build on company-owned land 16km west of the Toowoomba CBD, from laying the 2870m runway to erecting and fitting out the 8500sq m terminal, designed for 1.5 million passengers a year.

“While an airport is quite complex, it’s really a job of work,” Mr Wagner told The Australian. “Once the design has been done it’s a matter of getting enough people in to do it. We would be more than comfortable building it ourselves. It wouldn’t frighten us at all.”

However, the scale would be of another magnitude to Wellcamp, with Stage 1 of the second Sydney airport to be built to handle 10 million passenger movements annually. Some of the economies exploited by the Wagners for their prototype airport would not be available. At Wellcamp, they established rock quarries on site to provide runway fill, and the company’s local workforce was deployed in around-the-clock shifts, seven days a week during the construction phase.

But Mr Wagner said Wellcamp had shown the value of a single managing contractor. “You can save a hell of a lot of time doing things yourself. If you have got the one contractor doing the lot, the terminal can be done in parallel with the runway, there are no crossover disputes about getting access to certain parts of the site. You can actually do the work in parallel to the design being done,” he said.

The Wagner Group also drew heavily on its experience in quarrying, concreting, and manufacturing hi-tech composite building materials and fabricated platforms. The Toowoomba-based business run by Mr Wagner and his brothers, Denis, Neill and Joe, ranks 14th on the BRW Rich Families List with an estimated net worth of $955m in 2015.

Mr Wagner said he would probably look to forming a consortium with a “big builder” to tackle Badgerys Creek. “It’s a big project, it’s a national project, and I think the government would want one of the big guys in with a company such as us to make sure it was executed,” he said.

MTF...P2

[Peetwo]

Update II: Wagners - $5bn Badgerys? They’re dreamin’

Via the Oz... :

Badgerys offer puts Wagners in the frame

John Wagner with wife Liz at his Wellcamp airport.

• The Australian
  
  
• 12:00AM May 13, 2017
  
  
  
• JAMIE WALKER
  
  Associate Editor
  Brisbane
  @Jamie_WalkerOz
  [img=0x0]https://i1.wp.com/pixel.tcog.cp1.news.com.au/track/component/author/26017200f01dc40ee199934121ddd2ec/?esi=true&t_product=the-australian&t_template=s3/austemp-article_common/vertical/author/widget&td_bio=false[/img]
  

John Wagner’s phone was running hot this week with calls from the very people who wouldn’t give his airport the time of day not so long ago.

“Satisfying,” is how he des­cribes their interest now.

Wagner and his millionaire brothers used their own land and money to do what hadn’t been done in Australia for nearly 50 years: they built an international airport outside their home town of Toowoomba and got it to fly as a business.

Having answered the critics of their Wellcamp venture, the rich-listed Wagners want to give wings to the perennial white jumbo of Australian aviation, a second Sydney airport.

Their hat is in the ring to design, construct and potentially operate the $5-billion-plus gateway at Badgerys Creek, 50km west of the Sydney CBD — and they profess to have the know-how to get the job done sooner and more cheaply than anyone else.

Their DIY model for infrastructure development shows that game-changing projects in Australia don’t need decades to be built or to land with cost overruns. The government has set an opening date of 2026 for the Western Sydney Airport; Wagner says he could get the “job of work” done in three years flat.

The cost to taxpayers is estimated to start at $5.3bn; Wagner insists the family firm could bring it in for “well south” of that, depending on what is specified when the government puts the project to market. Based on the publicly available information, his price has a floor of $3.5bn.

“It’s a big site and it’s a job of work to do, but our view is if we did what we did at Wellcamp, then you can cut an enormous amount of time and cost out of it,” he told The Weekend Australian.

“We … would be more than comfortable building it ourselves. It doesn’t frighten me at all.”

As senior director in the family business, Wagner, 56, drove development of the $200 million Brisbane West Wellcamp Airport, a gleam of white, modular buildings and tarmac clustered around a 2.87km runway. From the time the first sod was turned, it took just 19 months and 11 days to complete, opening in November 2014.

This is the proof Wagner cites that he can deliver what he promises for Badgerys Creek. True, the western Sydney airport will be a vastly greater undertaking. Stage 1 of the project would handle up to 10 million passengers a year, eight times the number Wellcamp can accommodate. A government plan released in December envisages 80 per cent of the traffic through Badgerys Creek would be domestic, with each domestic gate averaging 5.5 aircraft turns daily.

The integrated passenger terminal would be up to 90,000sq m, with room for international ser­vices. By way of comparison, the T3 domestic terminal at Sydney Airport managed by Qantas is 78,000sq m. Yet, like Wellcamp, the new airport will be configured around a single runway, though longer at 3.7km. “My view with this project is that everything inside the fence is pretty straight forward,” Wagner said, detailing his vision for Badgerys Creek.

As he points out, his company has the hands-on experience to build a full-scale civil airport from scratch in this country. Wellcamp was the first to come on line since Melbourne’s Tullamarine airport opened in 1970.

Initially, his plan to fly passengers and international freight out of range-top Toowoomba, 120km west of Brisbane, was seen as a rich man’s folly. Wagner’s overtures to the “big guys” in the aviation and construction sectors fell on deaf ears.

“There was a lot of scepticism from the major consultants … who didn’t really believe that a new airport was going to be built,” he remembered. “We were quite disappointed in the lack of interest. But in hindsight, they did us a favour. We got in a team who were nimble and relatively inexpensive compared to the big guys and built the thing ourselves.”

Much of the work that he had planned to contract out was brought in-house to the family business, which had spun out of a concreting operation set up by his stonemason father, Henry Wagner. Today, the Wagner Group operates quarries and prefabricates bridge spans from bespoke composites; it has built an oil pipeline in Russia and one of the world’s biggest nickel refineries in New Caledonia. In 2015, the Wagners ranked 14th on the BRW families rich list, with an estimated worth of $955m.

With full control of the Wellcamp build, Wagner and his brother, Denis, were able to run it their way — with their own crews and equipment, using cement mixed in a company plant and soil and rock fill hauled from on-site quarries. They didn’t wait for the detailed specs. Once the masterplan was completed by Canberra architects Guida Moseley Brown — responsible for the redesign of the national capital’s airport — they put the pedal down.

“We were able to start the earthworks and construction while the detailed planning packages were being finalised. That saved us six to eight months,” Wagner said.

He would like to replicate this “design and construct” model at Badgerys Creek. “It’s a much more flexible and efficient approach,” he explained. “At Wellcamp, we appointed a builder (for the terminal) on our terms. The architects were still working on the detailed drawings as the foundations were filled. If you have to document every finish, every light and every bit of glass before you start, it’s a huge and expensive task. We were able to manage things as we went along.”

Work went on 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Pavement engineer Phillip Bell, of Gold Coast-based aviation consultants ACG, saved time and money by using roadwork equipment to concrete the runway. “Airports have got such a high focus on safety that it is very hard to unlock innovation,” he said. “John and Denis were brave enough to use a concrete paving machine and we … achieved massive amounts of efficiency from that.”

The Wagner opted to spend money upfront by over-engineering the runway to save down the track on maintenance. The heavier layering — underpinned by a rock base up to 8m deep — meant that the airstrip would better withstand the thud of a 300-tonne Boeing 747 touching down, adding years of service life. He believes these techniques would pay off big-time at Badgerys Creek.

The longer runway doesn’t phase him in the slightest, though he stresses that no one has yet seen the crucial geotechnical data. “Basically, that’s just more gravel, concrete and lights,” he said.

Both Malcolm Turnbull and Urban Infrastructure Minister Paul Fletcher have visited Wellcamp, and Wagner hopes they keep in mind what they learned as the government frames tender terms for the new airport.

Asked if his company was certain to bid, he said: “Absolutely.”
And this time around, he’s the one being chased by contractors keen to climb on board.

“My view is, the quicker you build it, the quicker you get a return,” he said. “Sydney Airport is currently quite constrained. It has a curfew and slot times are hard to get. We need a second airport in five years, not 10 years.”

Brendan Lyon of think tank Infrastructure Partnerships Australia said the design-and-construct procurement model advocated by the Wagners was routinely used to bring on public assets such as water plants and motorways.

A fan of what they did at Wellcamp, Lyon welcomes their interest in Badgerys Creek “given the 30 or 40 years thrashing around” the new airport. “In Sydney, we are building motorways that were planned in 1951, rail links outlined in the 1920s … I think people have sat up and taken notice of the Wagners because they decided they could see a commercial opportunity, they backed themselves, built the airport and it appears to have worked on a commercial basis,” Lyon said.

John Wagner’s thinking goes to how airports should be run, as well as constructed. Staff at Wellcamp are expected to be competent in three roles. Security personnel handle baggage or wait tables, while back-office people might front a ticketing booth or check-in. “You can run the place typically with less people, more efficiently, and the staff are over the moon because they get to do different things rather than the same job all the time,” he said.

Replicating those arrangements would be problematic. The Wellcamp workforce is small and non-unionised, but Wagner insisted he would be open to union participation in the western Sydney project.

In developing Wellcamp airport, Wagner said his family viewed it as an “intergenerational asset” with a horizon of decades, not the next annual result. Qantas and regional carriers Airnorth and Regional Express operate scheduled flights to Sydney, Melbourne, Townsville and Cairns while Cathay Pacific Airways has looped Wellcamp into a weekly Boeing 747 freight run to Hong Kong.

He believes the true “game changer” lies with the inland rail, the new freight corridor between Brisbane and Melbourne via Toowoomba, Moree, Parkes and Albury that received $8.4bn in Tuesday’s budget, along with funding for Badgerys Creek. Wagner has offered to invest $60m in a multinodal air, rail and road freight interchange if the indicative route of the railway is shifted 15km east to run past Wellcamp.

Fletcher said the Wagners and “any other interested construction companies” would be welcome to enter an open and competitive tender process for western Sydney airport.

MTF...P2

[thorn bird]

Bit of a week around the media for aviation stuff.

Passing Strange???
Fridays Australian "CASA looks to US work on drone operation hazards"

Hmm?? doesn't this sort of fly in the face of the CAsA ethos that all the rest of the world is wrong and only CAsA knows what is right for all things aviation. I mean to say what would those damned Yanks know about aviation or drones?

The "Iron ring" have been spinning that ethos for years, terrifying politicians and the general public that if we started adopting things that other people do around the world that actually work, are cost effective and allow aviation industries the freedom to grow and prosper, these flying thingies would be falling out of the sky everywhere.

NO, far better to indulge our own arrogance and ignorance, siphon hundreds of millions of dollars from the public purse to produce mountains of gobbledegook regulations, that nobody understands, that patently have no bearing on producing actual safety outcomes, stifle productivity and growth leading to the collapse of a whole industry, but are very successful however in ensuring no liability or responsibility falls on them, rather than, god forbid, actually being smart and copying the best from around the world as the New Zealanders did.

Then there's "CAsA budget maintained due to "Complexity" in Fridays Australian aviation section.

Yeah right!!...only thing complex is CAsA itself. Given the decline in General Aviation, caused in a large part by inept overregulation, CAsA needs extra staff?? to do what exactly?? More PHD's and masters degree's?

One would have thought since flying training was chased offshore, to places like Canada and New Zealand, where sensible regulations apply, rather than our hodge podge of convoluted rubbish purporting to be regulation. Where commercial charter has virtually shut down burdened by overregulation, massive costs from rapacious property development sharks and all the other parasites feeding off the carcus of GA, CAsA would be looking at cutting staff numbers, still and all I suppose when the final nail has been driven into GA's coffin, these numpies will still be churning out masses of paperwork, having lots of symposiums so a few of them can talk to an empty room (consultation with ghosts minister).

Of most interest to the press seems to be the notion that Badgeries Creek airport development seems a tad over priced at $5 billion and a bit long in the making at ten years.

The Wagners reckon 3.5 and a couple of years is closer to the mark.

Still by the time all the government bureau's have siphoned off their fees for the myriad of approvals that will no doubt be required, management fees etc, and the unions have held the contractors to ransom, $5 billion might seem cheap.
Let a bureaucrat anywhere near a government project and expect the costs to more than double, just look at what happened with the "building an education revolution" or "Pink Batts"

The Wagner's are used to running their own race. Their project cost around $200 million and took less than two years, so a reasonable person would surmise a billion and three years would be reasonable, leaving out roads and rail, so their gambit of $3.5 Billion might seem like overkill but somehow I doubt it.

See Last Wednesday"s Australia Page 1 "Family flies a $3.5 bn bid to build Badgery's"

Or The Australian Infrastructure Federal budget page 9, "Badgerys has $5 bn for 2026 landing"

Or Thursday's Australian page 4 commentary "Doing what's best for the west."

Or Friday's Australian Aviation page 27 "Badgerys could echo NBN cost"

Or the Weekend Australian Page 1 "$5 bn for Badgery's? Their dreaming" them Wagners again!!

Good grief, haven't seen this much interest in an airport since Methuselah was a pup.

[Gobbledock]

Thornbird;

"Let a bureaucrat anywhere near a government project and expect the costs to more than double, just look at what happened with the "building an education revolution" or "Pink Batts"

Thorny mate, how true how true. For some reason these politicians and bureaucrats think they know how to manage an economy, or an infrastructure project, or a complex system. Poor things, been living in their politician bubbles in fantasy land for too long. They couldn't manage the purchase of a packet of chewing gum from the local IGA without fu#king it up. And everybody knows it.

What makes them think they can successfully do the whole Badgery's thing themselves? Are they breathing in their own body produced carbon monoxide down there? Are they drinking PFOS contaminated water in Can'tberra? WTF!

You want a real job done, give it to someone with experience. Someone who at least used to get their hands dirty. If Badgery's is managed by any of our lazy, good for nothing, 'honourable' bumbling bureaucrats it will take at least 10 years to build. If the bumbling bureaucrats are saying $7b then you can make that a $10b cost. Let's cut through the bullshit - it's a Greenfields site. That's as good as being given carte blanche. If you build it they will come. Give it to Wagners. 'Half the time at half the cost'. It's a no-brainer. Wellcamp IS the Wagners CV. Just let them do it.

Can you even remotely imagine the following morons giving oversight to Badgery's; Rougarou Chester, Farmboy Joyce, Pumpkin Head M'ere'dk or Bill 'moobs' Short'one, Albo the white whale, or some kind of input by the irrelevant and no longer required allegedly Green Party? FFS. Shoot us all now!

"Safe airport developments for all"

[thorn bird]

Did a bit of a UP trawl this morning. Every now and then a gem turns up.
Here's one from our old mate Lead sled explaining where Australia's International
airline cadet training went. It really is a scandal, all those dollars gone because of arrogant
inept fools like Aleck, Anastasi and Mrdak. Will the industry have to wait until these numpies die
before we get reform? I say die because based on past experience with say Farkwitson, they'll still
be in there with their zimmer frames, snouts firmly in the trough.

Here's Leadies comment, read it and weep:

"Folks,
Let's go back a bit further, as this has been a long time coming.

The WA Government, in times past, put together a quite large scale plan for development of aviation businesses in WA, to the intended long term benefit of the WA (and Australian) economy ----

In short, to "Promote and Foster" aviation in WA.

I still have a copy of the report and final policy document --- an impressive publication, whichever way you looked at it, except if you worked for CASA in Canberra.

A direct upshot of that, and WA trade missions to RP China, was WAFC becoming China Southern WAFC --- Merredin airfield was acquired, and a (then) US$750,000,000.00 (three quarters of a billion dollars US) development was announced.

That is a bloody big investment, even in 2017 dollars, let alone fifteen years ago.

Then came CASA, after frustration after frustration, the investment program was truncated, and finally canned, and most of the money went to NZ, and to Canada, where the respective regulatory authorities are not actively hostile to aviation --- the hostility often tinged with undisguised racial bias --- as exhibited on this thread.

A couple of years ago, I attended a major GA conference in Xi'an, China, where I had a long conversation with the head of China Southern's external to China cadet pilot training program -- unsurprisingly, his comments were scathing.

He made it very plain( at a breakout session) that they (China Southern) would never again consider Australia as a place for cadet training, as had originally been intended ---- they have a policy of training cadets in a western environment.

Australia really is "the lucky country" ---- and Donald Horn did not mean that to be a compliment.

Tootle pip!!"

[thorn bird]

This one cracked me up.

Two guys were walking towards each other along a beach. As they neared each other a glint in the sand caught both their eyes, an old fashioned oil lamp lay there on the sand. Together they dived to retrieve it and a tug of war ensued.
Suddenly a cloud of smoke poured from the lamp and a genie appeared.

"Hi boys" said the Genie "been stuck in there for 400 years, for setting me free I'll grant you both a wish"
He turned to the first guy, "Okay whats your wish and why do you want it granted".

The guy said "I'm a GA operator, this other bloke used to work for me but I had to fire him because he was useless at his job,his mistakes cost me a fortune. He created lots of division with my other staff and drove away customers, he singlehandedly almost destroyed my business. My wish is to restore my business to its former financial viability, regain the harmony of my staff and return my lost customers".

The Genie snapped his fingers, "Done" he cried,thats really three wishes but I grant it for a nobel cause.

Turning to the other man he said "whats your wish and why do you want it granted?"

"Since this bastard fired me I couldn't get a job so I joined CASA, I've been trying to work out how to take revenge, destroy him and the whole industry that spurned me" he said

"Hmm" said the genie " not such a noble cause, but I agreed to a wish, in your case it must be one only, so your wish cannot encompass both him and the whole industry, what is your wish?"

"Create Part 61" the man replied

[Gobbledock]

Chopper pilot flies to Macca's for a feed!

From the Presstitutes at Channel 9;

http://www.9news.com.au/national/2017/05...-in-sydney

Love it. Although the Fort Fumble Gestapo will be combing over every bit of footage to see if they can make something other than a cheeseburger stick to the pilot!

'Safe McDonalds fly-throughs for all'

[thorn bird]

REX have invested heavily in a pilot training school. Picture: Grahame Hutchison.
MIKE HIGGINSThe Australian12:00AM April 28, 2017

The Department of Immigration and Border Protection issued a media release on April 18 announcing the abolition and replacement of the Temporary Work Visa (457). The document includes about 20 reforms, summarised in dot points. The Regional Aviation Association of Australia agrees with about 85 per cent of these.

The RAAA welcomes the government’s review of all programs from time to time to ensure they remain fit for purpose, have not drifted in scope and still address the initial problem. However, the published changes have some serious unintended consequences for many regional airline and charter operators. In a nutshell, pilots and avionic engineers are now totally excluded, while airframe/engine engineers are only eligible for temporary visas without any access to residency, which makes it virtually impossible to employ them. Examples include Chartair, a large operator in the Northern Territory. Since November 2015, they have had a massive turnover of pilots — of the 31 crew with the business at that time, only four of them remain.

They have lost 12 experienced pilots to large Australian national carriers in the past 12 months alone. The large Australian carriers don’t see an end to this recruitment drive any time soon, with a well-known international carrier recruiting some 1200 pilots by years end. The internationals recruit experienced pilots from the large Australian carriers and they in turn recruit experienced pilots from our member organisations. Chartair currently have parked three of their biggest aircraft because they don’t have crew for them!

Chartair is not unique in its role within the industry. Most Regional Aviation Association of Australia member airlines take in entry-level pilots and offer them a career path through small single pistons, small twins, up to single and twin turbines. Although they are all too aware of their position in the aviation food chain, they are proud of their record in providing high-quality pilots for the Australian national carriers. However, they are at that stage where our ranks at the upper middle and senior pilot levels are so depleted that overseas candidates locked in for four years on a visa were about the only solution to get them through this crazy phase of recruiting by the major carriers around the world. Therefore, they currently have seriously limited capabilities in-house for check and training and need desperately to bring in contractors to cover these vital roles. However, with the changes to the 457 visa they will not be able to sponsor these pilots to undertake vital roles for the survival of their businesses.

Perhaps the largest (in terms of number of aircraft) RAAA member is Regional Express and they may have the most compelling case. REX have invested heavily in a pilot training school and take most of the Australian graduates into their airline.

The international and Australian national carrier recruitment activity mentioned above has been so intense that this member soon won’t have a sufficient number of experienced captains to continue the training of the first officers. So we will see aircraft and first officers grounded because they can no longer employ direct entry captains, thanks to the 457 changes.

In the mid-1970s Qantas would routinely train over 200 aircraft maintenance engineers per year, and I was fortunate to be one of them. They now train 15 per year. This is not a criticism of Qantas, as their engineering business model has had to change over the intervening period due to changes in technology and a host of other reasons.

The fact is, though, that the once vibrant training ground has all but vanished. It is now incumbent on the smaller end of town to take a more active role in producing engineers.

This is widely recognised and commendable efforts are being made by industry. However, a combination of ‘‘centres of excellence’’ (silos) within both the federal and state governments, with no single controlling mind, has resulted in a gridlock where it is not possible for the Civil Aviation Safety Authority to issue licences to graduating apprentices.

The RAAA has been campaigning for some time and is working very closely with the Australian Aviation Maintenance Repair and Overhaul Business Association, the Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineers association, the Civil Aviation Safety Authority and soon the federal and state education departments to address this situation. So it was pleasing to read a recent release from the Minister for Infrastructure and Transport on Aviation training issues.

The document refers to the recent Aviation Workforce Skills Study which clearly articulates a need to ‘‘develop practical and workable solutions to overcome any shortfalls in the supply of professionally trained staff’’. ‘‘I look forward to working with the Department of Education and Training.”

Commendable indeed, yet at the same time another arm of the government makes these breathtaking changes to 457 that are designed to kill jobs and growth in our sector of the industry. The RAAA remains willing and able to be a part of the solution and would welcome an urgent review of these new arrangements.

Mike Higgins is chief executive of the Regional Aviation Association of Australia.

More evidence of bureaucratic ineptitude?? and even by some miracle you manage to gain an Australian qualification, its not recognised by the rest of the world.

[thorn bird]

A little piece of historical fluff.

Senate debates
Thursday, 14 November 2013
Adjournment – Aviation

6:52 pm

  
I come to the Senate following a career largely in the military and aviation over a number of hears. Having flown aircraft ranging from the venerable DC3 or C47 Dakota through to the most modern military helicopters and GA aircraft and flown all around this country, I am aware of the importance of aviation to Australia and to Australia’s community.

In South Australia alone there are some 400 regional airports and airstrips enabling passenger transport, freight and important services such as the Royal Flying Doctor Service to communities. Mount Gambier in South Australia, for example, is one of our busiest regional airports. It directly affects the employment of over 230 people and contributes some $29.7 million to the gross state product. Adelaide Airport employs over 16,500 people and adds $1.6 billion to the GSP. Nationally, the impact is even greater: some $13.5 billion directly to the economy, some 149,000 jobs, a further $11 billion into the economy because of the supply chain and another 97,000 jobs through that. So it is a significant contributor to our economy and to the way our society runs.

But it is a sector that is under some stress at a range of levels. Certainly for the larger operators—the high-capacity regular public transport operators—the global factors are having a huge impact. We have seen just this week, in fact, Qantas making decisions about maintenance that have affected many people here in Australia and also affect our sovereign capability to retain an engineering capability in country. Domestically we also see pressures—and not only upon the GA sector. You need to realise that aviation is a broad scope of people from your ag operators who spray crops to your aerial firefighters; your rescue services and air ambulance operators; the people who do the coast watch operations, the mail runs, the bank runs—there are a whole range of people who contribute to our society through aviation.

Many of them are under significant pressure, whether that be through excessive regulation or through the application of regulation that makes life difficult for them. Significantly, we saw that earlier this year with the release of the report into the Pel-Air accident at Norfolk Island, where we saw a number of issues with the regulator and ATSB that need to be addressed.

So it is a vital part of our economy, and I am pleased to say that the coalition has been listening to industry both prior to and post the election. We have had a number of meetings with industry, ranging from the one-man workshops through to larger engineering firms, smaller flying operations and large corporate organisations, to understand the pressures on them and how we as a government can try to take some of those pressures off. In the aviation policy put forward by the coalition there are a number of points that go to this. Certainly the topic of this week has been a lot about the abolition of the carbon tax and its impact on aviation fuels and businesses—and we are talking hundreds of millions of dollars of impact on the aviation sector here in Australia—but some of the other key points in the policy include looking at establishing a high-level external review of aviation safety and regulation in Australia which closely maps one of the recommendations coming out of the Pel-Air report. There is support for regional aviation, including new and better targeted en-route rebates. There is also an increased focus on recognising the importance of airports in Australia. Not only do we have to focus on things like Sydney’s second airport; but the government is also very aware of the fact that the airport infrastructure we have has its primary use as an airport. Whilst the commercialisation and leasing of some of the secondary airports has meant that there are non-commercial activities there, the key focus must remain on the aviation capability that that represents and the potential for that to grow to meet future demand in coming years. The government also has a priority on revitalising the general aviation sector through an action agenda and making sure that things like security measures, which can be an onerous imposition on airlines and airport operators, are in fact risk based and only to the extent necessary.

There are other aspects to the policy, but one of the key ones has been the review of regulation. I am pleased to report to the Senate that today the Deputy Prime Minister and the Minister for Infrastructure and Regional Development, the Hon. Warren Truss MP, who has responsibility for aviation, announced the independent review of aviation. He announced the terms of reference and the expected outcomes as well as the panel.

I want to pick a few of the outcomes that this review seeks to achieve and to deliver to the sector. The review will examine and make recommendations as required on the aviation safety roles of CASA, the Australian Transport Safety Bureau and other agencies. It will examine and make recommendations on the appointments process and criteria applied for key aviation safety roles within CASA and ATSB, again stemming back from some of the recommendations coming out of the Pel-Air report about making sure we have the right people with the right competence. That is task-specific competence. People may be very good and very competent, but for a particular task they need both qualifications and experience in that task to do the role.

It is also looking to review the implementation of the current aviation regulatory reform program, which has been going on an awful long time and has been creating much uncertainty in the sector. In South Australia, for example, as operators for the state government’s emergency medical service contract look to bid for that new tender, they are uncertain which rules they need to bid for. If the state government is not going to allow for regulatory change as part of the contract, it makes it very difficult for a company to bid—not knowing the standards to which they have to provide aircraft, numbers of aircrew, rosters et cetera.

The review will also look at the cost impacts on industry. That is one of the most important points. The government is looking to make sure that the aviation industry is not just safe but sustainable—that it is a viable industry sector for the future of Australia. Importantly, the review will also provide options to government for improving the oversight and enforcement of aviation regulations, including the rights of review, because we do see cases—some running right now—where companies have been shut down and, months after that, are yet to have their opportunity in the Administrative Appeals Tribunal to put their case as to why they believe that decision was unfair. So there is a requirement to make the application of regulation appropriate.

The government’s whole focus on deregulation means that we have the regulation we need to be safe but that we make sure that it is quality, that it is informed by people who understand the industry so that it is best practice and, importantly, that its application not only maintains safety but also makes sure that, where there is an equal safety case but one has a more commercially viable application, that is the one that the regulator should be looking to implement so that the industry is sustainable.

I am pleased that Mr David Forsyth AM is going to be chairing the review panel. He is well-known in the aviation industry in Australia as the chair of Safeskies and the former chair of Airservices Australia and has some 30 years experience in safety management. He will be joined by Mr Don Spruston, a former Director-General of Civil Aviation at Transport Canada and Director-General of the International Business Aviation Council and Mr Roger Whitefield, former Head of Safety at British Airways, adviser to Qantas and former UK Civil Aviation Authority board member.

One of the important things that we are aware of is that aviation is not just the large airlines and the high-capacity operators. It also includes, as I said before, people right through the gamut of aviation. So I am very pleased to see that Mr Phillip Reiss, President of the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association, will be involved in the review to make sure that the views of the general aviation sector are going to be taken into account.

The panel will be providing its report to the minister in May 2014, and there are opportunities for the industry at all levels to make submissions. I am pleased to see that the minister’s release talks about the fact that, while the review will seek the views of the CASA board and senior management staff, they will consult closely with industry. I encourage anyone involved in the aviation industry to take this opportunity to have their say to shape the future for a viable and safe aviation industry for Australia.

Check the date, then ask yourself the question:

WHAT'S HAPPENED?? Anything? Anything at all? Even a hint of anything?

[Gobbledock]

Thorny between two roses;

WHAT'S HAPPENED?? Anything? Anything at all?Even a hint of anything?

Lots mate!!' Aviation has declined further, Hoody became ATsB Chief Nupty, MComic went, Skid'more came and went, Wingnut came, a crash in Essendon occurred, cancer head Truss retired and Prince Phillip stepped down from Royal duties......anything else I can help you with mate?

[thorn bird]

Ran into an interesting Blog the other day.
https://gameofmates.com/blog/

It sort of promotes a book of the same name, "Game of Mates" but contains some interesting
debate about the hidden financial control of Australia's wealth and its distribution.
Lots of parallels with whats happening to our industry and why, makes for interesting reading.

[thorn bird]

From ART 24 web sight.

Wow!! a lot of interest around the world in the Kiwi's rocket launch.

Don't know wether to applaud or cry....Kiwi's steal the march AGAIN!

Sky’s the limit despite Rocket Lab mission’s launch setback

The AustralianRocket Lab, a start-up widely seen as a trailblazer for frequent, ultra-low-cost access to space, failed to reach orbit on its first flight. But Thursday’s mission, which blasted off from New Zealand, still was a partial success because the Electron New Zealand’s rocket launch hailed as a ‘huge milestone’ for local space tech .. Published By GoogleNews See Similar Threads…Sky’s the limit despite Rocket Lab mission’s launch setback – The Australian

Rocket Lab nails 1st orbital rocket launch from private pad

PanARMENIAN.NetPanARMENIAN.Net – Rocket Lab has successfully launched its 56-foot-tall Electron rocket for the first time. The relatively tiny vehicle, designed to ferry small payloads to orbit, reached outer space around 20 minutes past midnight (Eastern time) on Test rocket makes successful launch into space from New Zealand .. Published By GoogleNews See Similar Threads…Rocket Lab nails 1st orbital rocket launch from private pad – PanARMENIAN.Net

Rocket Lab ‘Well Ahead’ After Initial Launch Test

Aviation WeekLOS ANGELES—Rocket Lab says that despite not reaching its intended orbit of between 300 and 500 km on its first test launch on May 25, the Electron vehicle performed nominally throughout most of the mission and successfully executed the majority of New Zealand launches into space with 3D-printed rocket .. Published By GoogleNews See Similar Threads…Rocket Lab ‘Well Ahead’ After Initial Launch Test – Aviation Week

Rocket Lab launches first rocket into space from New Zealand site — will Australia follow?

ABC OnlineNew Zealand have entered the space market — launching a rocket partly made of carbon fibre, with engines made from a 3D printer, into space. American-New Zealand company Rocket Lab, which was behind the launch, want to take a slice of the booming …Rocket Lab Launches Successfully Electron, a 3D-Printed Rocket, From New Zealand .. Published By GoogleNews See Similar Threads…Rocket Lab launches first rocket into space from New Zealand site — will Australia follow? – ABC Online

Rocket Lab Successfully Launches Electron, a 3D-Printed Rocket, From New Zealand

NDTVRocket Lab, a Silicon Valley-funded space launch company, on Thursday launched the maiden flight of its battery-powered, 3D printed rocket from New Zealand’s remote Mahia Peninsula. “Made it to space. Team delighted,” Rocket Lab said on its official …US rocket team celebrates world first launch from privately built spaceport .. Published By GoogleNews See Similar Threads…Rocket Lab Successfully Launches Electron, a 3D-Printed Rocket, From New Zealand – NDTV

[thorn bird]

Oops, almost slipped past me.
Todays Australian Business review by Sarah-Jane Tasker
"Rinehart urges cuts to red tape to make Australia great again"
The subject was supposed to be on mining, but the script could
almost have been written for CAsA.
Some little snippets from the article:

"Australian billionaire Gina Rinehart has warned that governments and
business leaders around the world "can't understand us" or see Australia
as "a joke"

Fits like a glove, CAsA is a bit of a joke around the world.

"Ms Rinehart argued that the levels of red tape and bureaucracy in
Australia created enormous costs and sovereign risks so people did not
want to invest"

Yup, thats sounds like CAsA as well.

"global leaders and significant investors see us as a high-taxing, high cost country
who has all the resources that they could ever dream of, but we keep messing up"

"Messing up" fits CAsA, most of the industry think their a humongous cluster...k.

"They can't believe how we could get things so wrong."

Neither can we.

"Australia's fourth-richest person, with an estimated wealth of $10.4 billion, (she must be doing something right)
said the country needed to Learn from SUCCESSFUL governments that had cut red tape, for the immense benefit
of their countrymen"

She mentions India and the US as examples, she missed New Zealand but, a prime example of what good governance can do for an industry like aviation.

A great article from a very savvy woman, Gina for PM says I.

[Gobbledock]

Make Australia great again

Thorny, if I may indulge good sir. Gina although born into wealth, had a good grounding. She started out more or less as a shitkicker getting her hands dirty and earning her business stripes the hard way. That's why she is successful.

Today's modern bureaucrat is a product of University indoctrination, philosophies and good old fashioned corruption. Add to that most of them, like Malcolm 'Goldman Sachs' Turnbull have never worked a hard day in their life, and they sure as hell certainly wouldn't understand aviation. Can you imagine Jonathan Aleck, Pinocchio Gobson, 6D Chester or Mike Mudrack having actually worked a single day in their life? Let alone worked in the private aviation sector and understand a business structure. These poncing pen pushers only understand one thing - government salaries, government pensions and superannuation schemes, and free trough membership.

I agree with Gina, we need to make Australia great again, but it won't happen with the current mob of political deadshits.

Vote 1 Gina for PM

[thorn bird]

Not just Gina for PM Gobbles old mate.

That man Wagner in the news again.

The Australian todays inquirer page 11 by Sue Neales "Darling Downs on the up".

The article deals with the booming export driven rise in agricultural exports to China from the Darling Downs in QLD.

Mr Wagner says his long-term vision is starting to be realised.....wouldn't it be nice if our polli-wafflers had just a smidgeon of this mans vision?

"The Wellcamp airport and its freight terminal, shiny white passenger terminal and 2.87km runway is at its core.

Now Mr. Wagner is setting his sights on the inland Brisbane-Melbourne railway. He's prepared to stump up $60 mil of his own money to bring the rail line along the boundary of his new airport rather than its planned path 15Km to the west, turning Wellcamp into a major intermodal transport hub. He also envisions high speed passenger rail being built to parallel the inland freight route, connected to Wellcamp would make it truly BNE's second airport with travel times between BNE and Wellcamp down to 30 minutes.

From that man himself:

"This part of Queensland needs a long-term vision, not just for agriculture but tourism too. What I am talking about is a 50 to 100 year plan around getting the infrastructure right, for us, for Toowoomba, and for Australia"

"Absolutely it's about self-interest but its also about regional and national interest; we live in a world economy and if Australia wants to remain globally competitive, we have to have world-class infrastructure linking such a centrally important place as Toowoomba to the world."

With that sort of vision Mr. Wagner gets my vote, our current crop of Polli-wafflers can't see past the next election.

[Gobbledock]

Thorny on a roll;

"Mr Wagner says his long-term vision is starting to be realised.....wouldn't it be nice if our polli-wafflers had just a smidgeon of this mans vision?"

Goodness me, now you're really bringing out the big guns mate. As if the politicians don't already look like big enough plonkers!!! Vision? Yes, business people like Wagner(s), Big Gina, even Twiggy Forrest think outside the box and above the weeds. They know and understand what it takes to be a visionary, take measured risk and work bloody hard.

Now compare Gina, Twiggy and Wagner(s) ability to, for example, - Turdball, Joyce and Morrison!! Ha ha. No wonder our country is rooted. Deary me, no comparison really.

P.S Malcolm 'Goldman Sachs' Turdball's decision to unload $1b of taxpayer dosh on the new snowy river hydro scheme was invented, promulgated and announced all within a 14 day period. That's correct, 2 weeks. What kind of businessman or proper fiscal leader from start to stop in 14 days on a $1b decision??? I rest my case....

Wagner(s), Gina and Twiggy for Parliament

[Gobbledock]

New Generation Of Bombs Undetectable By Airport Scanners: What's The Solution?

Picked up this little article on Zerohedge regarding bombs on planes;

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-30...s-solution

The funny thing is that the article is based around a thread on UP. Even funnier is how in response to the Zerohedge article someone had the following to say about UP;

"This whole laptop-ban is typical for the entire aviation industry: the tail is wagging the dog.
By the way, don't believe too much you read on PPRuNe. IMHO it's a propaganda website, where they actively censor anyone that is too critical of aviation, especially the total deterioration of working conditions. It used to be really good when it was still owned by the original founder (a British chap named Danny) and was full of lively discussions, but it was bought up by an American (NSA?CIA?) (shell)company a few years ago, and then they started throwing the book at anyone who was making too many waves.
A great example is the fact that any topics regarding a certain airline of the Middle East are stictly prohibited, because otherwise they immediately send in lawyers!
IMHO it's nothing more than another collection of IP addresses, disguised as a discussion platform, of people who are considered "troublemakers," a perfect tool for the big airlines to silence the messenger".

And for the record, no it wasn't me that wrote that comment. I read ZH but don't comment, and I haven't so much as glanced at that pitiful UP website in over 2 years so I can't speculate on anything posted in the apparent thread. It seems the entire globe realises what a shit show Tidy'bin and Stalewheel run on behalf of their employers at the commercialised and boring UP!

Aunt Pru rules - OK.