Alphabet if’s and but's.

There is, carried on the evening breeze, a very disturbing rumour. I had it from one of the horse’s mouths today; but, he has had it second hand from a stable mate. It seems (according to the breeze) that ‘funding’ may come under revised ‘scrutiny’ should major changes be made to ‘the-way-things-are’. Should this whisper turn out to have substance – well, it’s time for all to draw the line. A deep line, one with the only crossing at the Royal Commission bridge.

We all expected CASA and the miniscule to roll out the big guns – but a threat, real, imagined or implied, to anyone’s funding? Problem is some are so terrified of loosing what little they have, anything may happen. My Grandpapa told me a thing once – always leave the man who you beat at cards his bus fare home and a little dignity; for there is nothing as dangerous as the man with nothing more to loose. Dangerous games against trained, mercenary, performing seals eh? Right then - game on; and, no holds barred.


WOFTAM ASIC system hacked - UDB?  Dodgy

It is bad enough that the vast majority of law abiding industry participants, are inflicted with having to comply with such an overkill security card system. However now it would appear that the security of the ASIC system has now been compromised. Leaving 1000s of those law abiding industry participants at great risk of identity theft, with their personal details being disseminated and potentially used illegally, by the very same criminal/terrorist elements that the ASIC system is supposed to protect against. Via the ABC:      

Quote:Airport security card company reveals data hack as AFP investigates
By Dylan Welch, ABC Investigations
Updated about 9 hours agoThu 12 Jul 2018, 5:23am

[Image: 8670240-3x2-700x467.jpg]

A company that provides airport security passes has had its data breached. (AAP: Mal Fairclough)

Related Story: Job seekers' personal data potentially compromised in major breach
Related Story: What to do if you fear your details may have been compromised
Related Story: If a company has lost your personal info, they now have to tell you
Related Story: Why February 22 is so important for Australian businesses
Related Story: Another day, another data breach. Do you even care anymore?

A company that issues Aviation Security Identity Cards (ASICs) — designed to stop organised criminals and terrorists from accessing planes and other restricted airport zones — has been hacked, leading to concerns that Australian airport security may have been compromised as a result.

Hundreds of people applying for, or renewing, ASICs through NSW-based company Aviation ID Australia received emails on Wednesday telling them their ASIC application information may have been stolen, the ABC has learned.

Do you know more about this story? Email

Aviation ID Australia services regional and rural airports around the country.

"Aviation ID Australia … advise that a localised portion of our website has been intentionally accessed by an unauthorised entity," managing director Ian Barker said.
"Unfortunately, we cannot confirm exactly what information has been accessed, however personal information that may have been breached includes name, street address, birth certificate number, drivers licence number, Medicare card number and ASIC number."

'I'm in limbo'

Australia's airports and the people who work at them are considered some of the most sensitive elements of Australia's national security infrastructure.

[Image: 9982680-3x2-340x227.jpg]

Former 747 pilot Nevan Pavlinovich. (Supplied)

Around the world, airports have been targeted by terrorists for attacks and used by organised criminals to smuggle illicit drugs and black cash.

Former 747 pilot Nevan Pavlinovich received the email on Wednesday.

"So far we know nothing. I'm in limbo," Mr Pavlinovich said.

"They say you've got to go change your passcodes, well that doesn't really affect whether these people can now make IDs and get access onto the airport [and] I've given over a lot of very sensitive information and they could use that information against me.

"The kind of information the hackers may have obtained is far more significant that just names and dates of birth.

"You've got to give enough to get a security clearance because of the seriousness of having access, particularly as a pilot, to the areas of the airport that I can go onto."

Federal Police investigating breach

"The AFP can confirm it is investigating a potential breach of the Aviation ID Australia website," an AFP spokeswoman told the ABC.

"While the investigation remains ongoing, it is not appropriate to provide further details."
Has your password been caught in a data breach?

[Image: haveibeenpwned-data.jpg]
Check whether your email address has been part of a data breach.

The Civil Aviation Safety Authority, which oversees the ASIC system, has also been informed.

This is not the first time Australia's aviation security system has come under scrutiny, with revelations in the past that people have been granted ASICs despite having criminal records or a history of association with radical Islamic groups such as Al Qaeda.

A federal report released last year revealed approximately 20 per cent of airport staff with access to planes have criminal convictions, including for drug trafficking.

Since February, federal legislation has required large companies to notify clients and the government when they are the subject of a data breach.

The theft of personal data is becoming an increasingly public issue; last year saw a series of high-profile breaches, including the hack of credit agency Equifax, which may have exposed nearly half the United States population to the risk of identity fraud

Email reply to the ABC, from Sandy... Wink

Quote:Dear Investigator,

As a delegate to the General Aviation (GA) Summit in Wagga Wagga, last Monday and Tuesday, the subject of the appropriateness of requiring GA pilots to hold these ID cards was questioned. 

Nothing of this nature is required in the USA and the cost of around $283, valid only 2 years, is fee gouging on steroids. GA is in decline and thousands of jobs have been lost due to such extraordinary impositions. 

Those of us in GA thank you and your investigative team for publicising this failure because we are fighting to get good growth policies which can revive GA for the good of the whole of Australia. 

Kind regards,

Sandy Reith 

MTF...P2  Tongue


What a farce. Once again, we have over-regulated processes in place which do SFA or actually work! The ASIC breach is yet another failure within the Government system. While our industry gets bogged down in red tape and stupidity including the ASIC farce and other foolish ‘feel good’ processes that supposedly helps the public and Pollywafflers sleep well at night, the industry gets further strangled.

Now we have body scanners coming to 90 airports from most recent estimates, again for the purpose of what? Not much use if your ASIC control system has been breached. Let me guess, the next thing is that we will be iris scanned, have barcodes placed under our skin, a GPS tracking device inserted up our chocolate speedway and be forced to process our ASIC renewals in a concrete bunker 20 stories underground at Pine Gap, in person!!!!!

Meanwhile, at a terrorist base camp near you there are morons probably trying to work out whether Moreton Bay, Botany a Bay or Port Philip Bay would be the best body of water to sit in a Tinnie with one of the 3,000 SAM’s missing worldwide?

“False sense of ASIC security for all”

For one of the best wrap ups of the Wagga Summit... Wink

Via the Wagga Weekly:


[Image: Airport-image-e1531359582653-1273x640.jpg]
pennie scott

It is a well trotted-out fact that the average age of farmers is close to 60, yet there is another sector with a similar demographic – general aviation.

More than 90 representatives from 34 general aviation industry associations gathered in Wagga this week so the leaders of each group could create a consensus proposal for a change to the Civil Aviation Act. The meeting was the sequel to Dick Smith’s public meeting on 4 May 2018 in Wagga, which was purposely convened by Michael McCormack as the Minister for Infrastructure and Transport in his electorate of Riverina.

The Australian General Aviation Alliance is made up of 34 associations with more than 26,500 members across all sectors of the aviation industry.

The Executive Director of Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association (AOPA), Ben Morgan, said general aviation includes every form except military and scheduled flights.
What is included in general aviation is relevant to all Australians every day via the vast array of activities falling under:
  • Fire-fighting aircraft
  • Emergency service fixed-wing and rotary aircraft (Snowy and Westpac emergency helicopters)
  • Police helicopters
  • Agricultural aircraft – spraying, mustering
  • The Royal Flying Doctor Service
  • Training aircraft
  • Private pilots
  • Surveying
  • Business and charter flights
  • Maintenance including avionics, engines and airframes
  • Gliders, gyrocopters, microlights
  • Parachuting aircraft
  • Hot air balloons.
Former Managing Director of Regional Express (Rex), Geoff Breust, was the independent chairman for the summit and explained the frustrations of the existing prescription-based legislation of the Civil Aviation Safety Authority while the rest of the world’s aviation authorities operate on outcome-based legislation.

“Everyone agrees safety is vital. However, the safest aeroplane is the one still on the drawing-board.”

The main cause for concern among aviators is the addition of the word safety in 1995 so that the Civil Aviation Authority became the Civil Aviation Safety Authority. As a result, many more regulations were included in the Legislation, which, over the past 23 years, has caused general aviation to face increasing regulatory charges, a diminution of new participants and a dim future.

Australian director of AOPA, Mike Smith, said the costs associated with the regulations also prevent new business.

[Image: Flying-united-trio-300x225.jpg]

“Australia’s one of the best places to train pilots, yet the majority of places are taken by Chinese students whose courses are being paid for by the Chinese government.

“There is a recognised shortage of pilots world-wide, yet the costs of regulations are so high in Australia, very few of our young people can afford to pay the fees. This is a lost opportunity along with the decrease in other business opportunities in the aviation sector,” Mike said.

However, AOPA’s Ben Morgan said the summit was delighted that Michael McCormack as Minister for Transport and Infrastructure, and Shadow Minister, Anthony Albanese, attended and are committed to bi-partisan support to change the Act.

“Hearing both commit to this arrangement in a public forum gives the Australian General Aviation Alliance great heart that the necessary changes will be passed,” Ben said.

“At the conclusion of the summit, an agreement was reached covering all aspects of the Act we need changed and both Michael and Anthony agreed we would meet together at Parliament House to discuss the next steps. This outcome is very satisfying.”

The two resolutions, which will be presented to both the Minister and Shadow Minister, outline the problems aired at the meeting and suggests changes to the Civil Aviation Act and other Acts associated with aviation.

Geoff Breust concluded the summit thanking everyone who attended, including Senator Fraser Anning from the Katter Party, Secretary Dr Jane Thompson from the Senate’s Rural and Regional Affairs Transport committee, Senator David Fawcett, represented by Micah Wright-Taylor, CASA Group Manager, Rob Walker, Stephen Angus from Air Services Australia, Craig Spence from the International Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association, Jim Wolfe and Melissa Cashman from the Department of Infrastructure, airport managers and owners and pilot training school owners.

[Image: Flying-United-mob-1024x297.jpg]

The delegates from 34 general aviation industry associations who attended the July 2018 conference in Wagga.

MTF...P2  Tongue

RAeS letter to WOFTAM miniscule 4G Confused

Via Oz Flying:

Quote:[Image: aiac_staff_diamond_2.jpg]RAeS believes that professional flying academies may hold the answer to better automation training. (AIAC)

Pilots not well Trained for the Future: RAeS
16 July 2018

The Australian Division of the Royal Aeronautical Society (RAeS) has written to Minister for Infrastructure and Transport Michael McCormack stating that the current training programs do not prepare pilots well enough for automated cockpits.

The letter, dated 12 July and signed by RAeS president Andrew Neely, outlined the findings of the society's safety forum held on 27 June this year and pointed out that training requirements are often based on old technology.

"The current GA industry does not adequately prepare pilots for a future in the highly automated world," the letter states. "Often newly trained instructors, with minimal real-world aviation experience, are training ab initio students and do not have either the experience or opportunity to pass on needed aviation experience.

"Regional and major airlines are taking instructors too early from the flight school environment given the recent demand. One solution put forward by the GA training school representatives is for closer cooperation between the GA industry and airlines in the future so that experienced training pilots from the airlines can mentor both students and junior instructors."

According to the RAeS, the solution may lie with flying academies and the recruitment standards when it comes to ability to deal with automation.

"This gap between the training needs of professional aviation and the General Aviation industry will only continue to widen," the letter continues. "Professional aviation colleges may also be part of the solution to this problem.

"In order to ensure that the pilots of the future meet the needs of the future flight deck, the professional civil aviation industry needs to update recruitment assessment practices to assess applicants abilities in cognitive task analysis thus allowing them to interface with the highly automated aircraft of the future."

The RAeS Safety Forum also looked at the issues surrounding integrating drone operations in to current airspace and outlined weaknesses and challenges in airport security.


Hmm...after miniscule 4G's performance at Wagga I do wonder whether the RAeS appreciate that they are appealing to a self-serving/self-preserving individual with an extremely low level of intelligence, who is blithely ignorant to such professional discourse/expert advice and will no doubt promptly defer such matters to the trough feeding boffins at Fort Fumble... Dodgy 

MTF...P2  Cool

[Image: bedd0ddbec1068790ab4ece108f2aa71.jpg]

And so; down the rabbit hole.

Former ASA trough feeder Rustle's got DPM McComical's ear -  Dodgy 

Via the Oz:


Shortage of pilots, engineers threatens aviation industry viability

The Australian

[Image: f9db9348a5f01f335b05f80107ba1022]

Shortage of pilots, engineers threatens aviation industry viability. Transport Minister and Deputy Prime Minister Michael McCormack. Picture: AA

The government is examining an industry report that warns the shortage of qualified pilots and maintenance engineers is a “major issue” for Australia’s aviation system

“Urgent action is required if the country is to avoid major disruptions,” according to the report, obtained by The Australian and written by a panel chaired by Australian Aviation Associations Forum chair and former Airservices boss Greg Russell.

Deputy Prime Minister Michael McCormack has welcomed the industry report. He said he had written to Education Minister Simon Birmingham to highlight the recommendations and note the value of the report “as a snapshot of industry views regarding Australia’s aviation workforce training needs”.

“Adequate training and retention of aviation professionals are keys to ensuring continued growth of all sectors of the Australian aviation industry and the government supports efforts by industry to find longer-term and sustainable solutions,’’ Mr McCormack, also the Infrastructure and Transport Minister, said.

The report warns that Australia “does not have an aviation training system capable of meeting the requirements of the industry now, or in the years ahead”.

The training system “suffers from a lack of strong policy direction and co-ordination”, it says.

The report also cites concerns about the availability of flying instructors and the cost of doing pilot training or engineering courses. The report recommends moves including the development of a “career pathway program” from initial training to early flying to going to the major airlines. Among recommendations, the panel said it wanted Canberra to look at financial “relief” for flying schools that mostly do flight training.

The report calls for the Department of Education and Training to take the lead in reform of aviation training, ensure qualifications from graduates can be recognised, and raise the VET student loans limit for trainee ­pilots, and ensure the VET scheme is “more tightly targeted”.

Mr McCormack said he welcomed the pilot training programs being done by Regional Express and Virgin. He was confident the Qantas plan to open a new pilot training facility this year “will make a substantial contribution to both the national pilot workforce and the local economy of the location”.

The expert panel included QantasLink, Virgin, Rex’s Australian Airline Pilot Academy, Aviation Australia, Basair Aviation College, Aircraft Structural Contractors, and the regional aviation industry body.

Last month a plan produced by the General Aviation Advisory Group had highlighted pressures included an ageing workforce and competition for personnel.

MTF...P2  Cool

YSSY CAPA conference; & more on Rustle's report -  Rolleyes  

Via Ironsider & the Oz today... Wink

Quote:Aviation industry in rude health
[Image: bc6c2ba79472b169b25a4f6e18fa202f]ROBYN IRONSIDE
The sector has never been in better economic shape with even US billionaire Warren Buffett now investing in airline shares.

The aviation industry has never been in better economic shape with even US billionaire Warren Buffett now investing in airline shares.

The annual Centre for Aviation conference in Sydney heard a “new benchmark” had been created by the likes of Qantas, which remained on track for a record full-year profit of between $1.55 billion and $1.6bn.

Agri-nomics Australia director Barry Parsons said it was not that long ago airlines had been considered poor investments.

“Now you’ve got Warren Buffett investing in shares and the main local airline here has a return on invested capital of about 21 per cent,” Mr Parsons said.

“It’s a great business, a great investment and that’s going to be hard to maintain.”

He said in aviation, there was always a “crisis around the corner” but for the moment it had never been better.

“Numbers-wise, net profit reporting levels are up quarter on quarter, operator cash flows are up on prior years and fares are climbing,” Mr Parsons said.

“Fuel’s up 55 per cent year on year, but most of that’s being passed on to the premium cabin.”

International Air Transport Association data for May-June 2018 also showed passenger demand trending upwards and freight volumes increasing.

Regional Express deputy chairman John Sharp said the biggest threat to the industry’s growth and profitability was US President Donald Trump.

“The one thing in a global sense that threatens it all is Mr Trump and trade wars, and that has the potential to impact all of us,” Mr Sharp said. “We as a regional airline will not be safe from that, we will be affected.”

He also nominated the pilot shortage, airport fees and the cost of complying with Civil Aviation Safety Authority regulations as major challenges for the industry.

“When I first joined Rex in 2004, we had one captain who managed all of our compliance work,” Mr Sharp said.

“That one part-time person is now 14 people. It’s those additional costs that compliance imposes on you in a regional market that makes our viability more difficult. It’s almost impossible for anyone to start up against us.”

Ian Douglas from the International Air Services Commission, which allocates capacity entitlements to Australian airlines for the operation of international services, said there was evidence that regulation was actually working to airlines’ advantage.

“Constraints on capacity growth in some environments is actually providing some external limits on the speed of growth and that’s helping to boost yields,” Mr Douglas said.

“There is a sense the market is comfortably doing well.”

Next here is a link for the, Greg Russell led, expert panel report: reference - Report of the Expert Panel on Aviation Skills & Training - June 2018

A couple of extracts of interest, intrigue, contention and possible IOS derision, mixed with disgust... Dodgy 

Quote:4.13 Regulation.

The panel was well aware that the industry was on ‘regulatory reform overload’ and is keen to see the long-running reform program completed. Important steps are now underway to finish the program and to engage more effectively with industry. The Panel hopes that this review will make a contribution to that process with respect to the urgent need to improve aviation training.

There is much to be done.

Australia has departed from the regulatory approach of major overseas regulators in some important areas (notably recognition of technical qualifications) which has led to issues in relation to the sourcing and training of overseas pilots and engineers, the ability of Australian trained personnel to take up overseas employment and the opportunities for Australian companies to undertake maintenance on overseas registered aircraft in Australia.

There are further ongoing transitioning issues between the old and new regulations which is causing confusion especially in the training area (CASR Part 61).

As noted earlier the resourcing of some areas of CASA appeared inadequate given the organisation’s need to undertake mandatory requirements in relation to audits, checks and examinations. As a consequence of the shortage of CASA’s flying operations inspectors the industry had experienced delays which in turn has impacted on the ability of airlines to quickly move forward in filling staffing gaps.

The Panel believed the alignment of Australia’s maintenance regulations with those of EASA would best support industry expansion, enhance Australia’s reputation as an international training provider, and provide smoother employment paths. Consideration of the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) regulations seemed to be generally the best way forward for the alignment of pilot training. CASA’s current regulatory structure already allows for acceptance of EASA standards and qualifications and therefore this avenue could be adopted, again without undue additional effort.

Some stakeholders believed regulatory compliance costs were impacting on the economic viability of some training organisations particularly those smaller operators who are unable to effectively fulfil all new Air Operator Certificate (AOC) requirements with respect to Safety Management Systems and potential Fatigue Risk Management System changes. This is due to having to meet more than one regulatory framework and more actual audits for no real benefit. Under the FAA systems, some flight instructors can conduct training activities (in accordance with the scope of their approvals) without the need for an over-arching AOC construct. This then allows them more flexibility and a lower overhead cost. A similar model could be adopted within the CASA system without large regulatory change.

On a positive note it is also clear that an important part of the reform program is the way CASA is working with industry and the better consultative mechanisms that are now in place. The Panel acknowledges in recent times CASA has changed its approach to regulatory reform and industry engagement to a more positive process but the Panel also acknowledge the significant amount of work that remains to be done. 

Short term recommendations to government

The Panel recommends government should prepare an overview which assesses the impact of Australia’s aviation regulations on the sustainability of the industry including the alignment with EASA for maintenance and FAA for pilot training, regulatory prescription, transitioning from old to new regulations and shortages of specialist regulatory personnel is a major contributing factor which is inhibiting the supply of suitably qualified personnel.
The Panel agrees that the regulatory reform program be completed as soon as practicable and suggests to CASA’s Aviation Safety Advisory Panel that it set up a working group with

industry to make recommendations to identify ways to reduce the regulatory impact on training and encouraging streamlined pathways to achieving flight examiner qualifications.

CASA is asked to consider the following issues:

• The number of flight examiner positions is inadequate and is proving to be a bottleneck to checking pilots to line. It is suggested that this issue be referred to the Aviation Safety Advisory Panel so that the regulations can be streamlined.
• Adopt the European Aviation Safety Agency maintenance regulations to harmonise Australian regulations with major aviation countries.
• Review if the flying experience of RAAus pilots can be recognised in part as experience for progression into the commercial industry.
• Consider the implementation of a system for small training organisations similar to that operated by the FAA so that training could occur outside the requirements of holding an AOC (and the requirements for SMS and FRMS) systems).
• The CASA CEO and the Aviation Safety Advisory Panel review the flight examiner upgrade pathways and examiner/instructor qualifications and streamline the regulatory process with a view to encouraging more pilots to take up these roles.

 "...CASA is asked to consider..."  - What kind of a soft cock approach is that? If you actually needed anymore proof that TAAAF is now fully beholden to the regulator go no further than that comment (where's the bucket "K"? -  Confused  ). Ironically that comment fully endorses the efforts of AGAA at the Wagga summit to push through ASAP a fundamental change to the Act.

Speaking of the AGAA; I note that at Appendix 2 & 4 that there is no inclusion of any of the foundation and/or key members of the AGAA:

Quote:Appendix 4: Consultation with additional stakeholders

In addition to the stakeholders represented on the Panel, consultations were undertaken with the following additional stakeholders:

• Civil Aviation Safety Authority
• Department of Education and Training
• Australian Skills Quality Authority
• Flight Training Adelaide
• Royal Aeronautical Society Australian Division
• University of New South Wales
• University of Southern Queensland
• Innovation & Business Skills Australia
• Swinburne Institute of Technology
• Small to medium General Aviation maintenance companies
• New South Wales Department of Industry
• Aerial Agricultural Association of Australia
• Australian Helicopter Industry Association
• Recreational Aviation Australia
• Royal Federation of Aero Clubs
• Skills Canberra, Chief Minister, Treasury and Economic Development Directorate, ACT Government
• Queensland Department of Education and Training
• Workforce Development & Training (Skills Tasmania), Department of State Growth
• Western Australia Department of Training and Workforce Development
• NT Department of Business
• SA Department of State Development
• VIC Department of Education and Training

Information on the International Air Transport Association’s approach to the skill shortages was also considered by the Panel.
How is it possible for anyone in industry to attest to the veracity of the findings of this fluffy 'snowjob' report, when the experts and key associations of the GA industry sector have not been included to provide input? Totally unforgiveable! - TICK...TOCK 4G! Angry

MTF...P2  Cool

The life of a GA scenic pilot. 

Following on from the above, here is a snapshot of what pilots have to deal with from day to day in the GA scenic flight industry sector.


Quote:‘You should love your job and shut your mouth’: Inside Australia’s aviation industry

ON THE surface, it looks like the coolest jobs in Australia but underneath, pilots are exhausted, unhappy and broke.

[b]Natalie Wolfe

[Image: a4813311b8477d5edf7e203d2d2a1072]

A chopper flight over the Whitsundays. Picture: Jason HillSource:Supplied

IT SEEMS like the dream job: flying over the pristine Ningaloo Reef, weaving through vast canyons in the Kimberley and giving tourists an adventure they won’t forget.

But underneath that scenic backdrop, general aviation pilots are crying out for help, saying they are overworked, underpaid and constantly fatigued due to long working hours.

The four pilots who spoke to chose not to have their names published because they believe speaking out about working conditions is a career-ending move in this tiny, high-risk game.

One pilot told “You’re basically knifing yourself in the back”.


Michael*, 33, worked as a helicopter pilot in the outback for six years.

“It’s like any job that you start out in, you have to go to some s**thole town or the middle of nowhere for a few years before you get lucky and get transferred out,” he said.

For Michael, work in the Kimberley typically meant spending at least two months away from home, camping in the sweltering desert with no aircon, loved ones or entertainment.

He would work six days on, one day off, for two months straight — which adds up to 56 days’ work and only six days’ rest.

“They flew in food for us once a week and we’d have a bit of power, a few solar panels and a generator but that went to light not to keeping yourself cool,” Michael said.

[Image: e399a211f771abb4518acce85d28b4f2]
King George Falls in the Kimberley, a popular tourist attraction for scenic flights.Source:Supplied

A general aviation licence can easily cost budding pilots $100,000 but a typical graduate struggles to earn $50,000.

The meagre salary, coupled with the huge hours, left pilots mentally and financially stressed, Michael said.

“You’re away for two months at a time and getting paid $45,000 a year for working 12-hour days, so of course there are lots of mental health issues because you’re so isolated and exhausted,” he said.

Australia issued 1200 pilot licences last year, a drop from the 1600 issued a decade ago. Meanwhile, the industry is crying out for more pilots, with Boeing estimating 640,000 are needed in the next 20 years.

“You see all these people talking about there being a pilot shortage but it’s not rocket science — nobody wants to spend $100,000 to live in a box in Katherine,” Michael said.

Michael said he should work a maximum of 48 hours a week under his licence — split between flying hours and additional duties, such as maintenance — but usually worked more than 60.

“Every pilot that doesn’t work at Qantas is being underpaid at least seven hours a week. Everyone is doing 45 hours if not 70 a week,” he said.

“But we’re all passionate and want to climb through the ranks and start our career.”

Michael was compelled to speak out after’s recent coverage of the poor conditions of fly-in-fly-out miners.

“I get they have it hard and they’re in dongas in the desert but we’re in the exact same isolation, with no airconditioning and no power. If you’re hot and sweaty, tossing and turning all night, are you getting proper rest?” he said.

Other pilots told they were stuck for the first five years of their career. They need to pay off their $100,000 licence debt and build flight hours — all while keeping their mouths shut about the conditions.

These pilots aspire to nab a lucrative job flying for big mining companies, but they typically require pilots to have logged at least 2000 hours before employing them.


The romantic side of being a pilot — a job that sees them fly over Australia’s most scenic spots on a daily basis — leaves pilots feeling like they can’t speak up.

“Your parents go to the Kimberley and take a joy flight with a pilot getting paid $45,000 a year who’s been living in a tent for months but there’s no visibility on that,” Michael said.

“We’re told, ‘You’re a helicopter pilot you should love your job and shut your mouth’. We’re told by our bosses we’re peasants because they know it’s a career you’re passionate about and one you have to cop sh*t in for five years to actually make it somewhere.”

Another pilot Chris*, who had eight years’ experience, described tourist flying as “entry-level, foot-on-the-bottom-of-the-rung-type jobs for pilots”.

He is often told by his employer “do this or I’ll replace you by lunchtime”.

“I’ve had mates that spoke up that conveniently never found a job in Australia ever again,” he said.

A third pilot, David*, who’s worked in the tourism industry for eight years, completes up to 10 flight a day to Ningaloo Reef in Western Australia.

“I’m on $48,000 a year and when you crunch the numbest that’s a sh*t hourly rate for a job that demands so much and is so risky,” David said.

Michael said plenty of people did the job because it was “cool”, but that shouldn’t mean they have to deal with poor conditions.

“Try and tell a lawyer working in a high-rise office overlooking Sydney Harbour that he shouldn’t earn six figures because he gets a ‘cool’ view. I’m sure they’d agree with that,” he said.


Australia has seen a number of tragic deaths over the past year involving small aircraft and 80 per cent of flight accidents are caused by pilot error.

Chris said completing up to 10 scenic flights a day put impossible pressure on pilots.

“People say flight accidents are because of a pilot’s experience level but a lot of the time it comes down to fatigue and unsafe conditions,” he said.

“It’s a very safety-critical industry but sometimes things get blurry and that can lead to serious or even deadly consequences.

“You’re told to do the job, don’t use too much time on the aircraft and get the job done as quickly as you can — that causes people to cut corners and make mistakes.”

David said: “I know mates than have been involved in accidents and are lucky to still be alive today. Yeah they made a mistake but they were working more than 60 hours a week, of course they were going to.”

[Image: f7a51f70e87f355c95da51d4bcd57404]
Ningaloo Reef in Western Australia. Picture: Tourism WASource:Supplied

In a statement, the Civil Aviation Safety Authority said working hours differed depending on the aircraft and carrier pilots worked for.

“CASA has a robust set of fatigue requirements for all air operators. These are currently being updated to make them even more effective in safely managing fatigue in all aviation operations,” a spokesman said.

“There is no ‘one size fits all’ regulatory requirement for fatigue management. This means the way fatigue is managed varies across the aviation industry. CASA does not require small charter airlines, for example, to meet the same requirements as a large airline.

“It is difficult to assess the examples provided as the air operators are not identified. However, if the pilots contact CASA we will take appropriate action to review their concerns.

“CASA encourages pilots with concerns about fatigue management to contact us so we can ensure the practices they are working under meet the fatigue requirements.

“Confidential reports about safety concerns can be made to CASA and these will be acted on.”

The spokesman said confidential reports about unsafe practices could be lodged here and here. put questions to pilots union, the Australian Federation of Air Pilots, but it is yet to respond.

* Not their real names
MTF...P2  Cool

Perhaps knob jockeys like Gareme Clawfoot and Dr Voodoo on their $400k salaries, McDo’nothing on his package of around $400k and Wingnut Carmody on his $700k package would like to spend a month with some of these pilots living in shitsville in a donger and working 70 hours per week for under $50k??

Of course CAsA respond with their bureaucratic wankery quoting robust fatigue requirements for operators and other horseshit.

Get rid of CAsA and ‘make aviation great again’.

Disagreement heats up on QF special deal for foreign pilots -  Confused   

First from the AFR yesterday:

  • Aug 5 2018 at 11:45 PM

  • Updated Aug 5 2018 at 11:45 PM
Qantas steers around 457 visa crackdown with deal for overseas pilots

[Image: 1533455656519.jpg]

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by David Marin-Guzman

Qantas has struck an agreement with the Turnbull government to get around new restrictions on skilled visa workers and recruit overseas pilots for long-term stays.

The labour agreement granted last month allows the airline's regional arm, QantasLink, to bring 76 pilots and instructors into the country for up to four years, avoiding new two-year restrictions that block permanent residency.
Qantas is the most high-profile company to be granted a labour agreement this year, in what is an emerging tool for employers to address the government's crackdown on the skilled visa system.

The airline, which has 3500 pilots in total, is going through one of the biggest pilot training programs in its history, with plans to train 100 pilots a year in a new centre to open in 2019.

The pending introduction of 14 Dreamliners has meant Qantas needs to train pilots to move up the ranks, to replace those it has promoted to fly the new aircraft.

However, the airline has struggled to recruit enough instructors and believes two-year visa restrictions on overseas pilots, which came into full effect in March, are globally uncompetitive.

The labour agreement will allow it to bring in overseas pilot instructors, as well as pilots for low-level propeller aircraft, with the intake to be renegotiated after the first year.

While their visa stay will be limited to four years, the workers will be cleared for a pathway to permanent residency after that period.

A Qantas spokesperson said: "Our focus has always been to recruit Australian-based pilots and that hasn't changed.

"This agreement allows us to temporarily bring in a limited number of simulator instructors and experienced pilots from overseas to support one of the biggest training programs we have done in our history."

Industry deals

Labour agreements date back to 1989, but have attracted renewed interest after the Turnbull government restricted permanent residency pathways for skilled visa workers, scrapped a range of eligible occupations and introduced dozens of business prerequisites.

Other companies granted labour agreements this year include Inpex Australia, which runs the Ichthys LNG project, beef exporter Teys Australia and Sydney harbour fine-dining restaurant Aqua Dining.

Ernst & Young's global immigration head, Wayne Parcell, said his firm has seen an increase in inquiries from employers about labour agreements, particularly for airline services and the regional health sector.

"They really provide the only pathway to loosening the criteria that people have to sponsor people who are not on one of those designated lists or are in occupations that don't quite fit," he said.

'No easy pathway'

Department of Immigration and Border Protection secretary Mike Pezzullo told a Senate estimates hearing in May that labour agreements were a "better targeted measure" to address company-specific requirements for skilled workers.

"There is no reason for anyone to be devastated about anything," he said in response to a backlash to the visa changes. "They can engage with us on a labour agreement, they can engage with us on any number of alternative pathways." 

However, Mr Parcell said his understanding was the department did not see such agreements as its "favoured option", as it viewed them as a "regulation breaker".

Information requirements for the agreements were also "incredibly intensive", with documents needing to demonstrate economic benefit, labour market testing, skill and salary levels.

"It's not an easy pathway by any means," he said. "You won't be looking at it for low-paid, low-skilled occupations because of the high level of sensitivity [surrounding such agreements]."

And this afternoon from Ironsider, via the Oz... Wink  

Quote:Qantas pilots query ‘special deal’ allowing airline to hire foreign pilots
[Image: 812d785e768b08fe74d34423b8afd4bc?width=650]A Qantas pilot. Picture Chris Pavlich
Qantas pilots have questioned an agreement struck by the airline with the federal government, that smooths the way for the recruitment of foreign pilots with the promise of permanent residency.

The agreement will allow QantasLink to bring in 76 pilots and instructors for up to four years, after which time they can seek to remain in Australia.

Other foreign workers entering Australia on skilled work visas are restricted to a two year stay that blocks permanent residency.

Australian and International Pilots Association president Murray Butt said AIPA rejected the assertion there were insufficient numbers of Australian candidates to fill the positions.

“Qantas should not have been granted a special deal to hire foreign pilots, before properly testing the labour market,” Captain Butt said.

“If there is a real pilot shortage of Australian applicants and AIPA seriously doubts that is the case, it has come about because aviation employers have sat on their hands and done nothing to address the impending supply side problem.

“Collectively, they have made aviation a relatively unattractive career.”
He said it was AIPA’s view, the deal to recruit foreign pilots for four years was “little more than a smoke screen to keep pilot salaries as low as possible”.

“Our biggest concern is they’re trying to subsidise low wages with Australian residency, and we shouldn’t be trying to sell off Australian residency,” Capt Butt said.

Qantas (QAN) sought the deal from government after having difficulty attracting experienced aviators on two year contracts.

A Qantas spokeswoman said the airline’s focus “had always been to recruit Australian-based pilots and that hasn’t changed”.

“This agreement allows us to temporarily bring in a limited number of simulator instructors and experienced pilots from overseas to support one of the biggest training programs we have done in our history,” she said.

Since 2016, Qantas has hired over 600 new pilots in Australia with ongoing recruitment set to add another 350 by the end of this year.

The Australian understands the starting salary for Qantas pilots is $90,000, and eligible senior pilots will be required to meet the same capability standards as existing pilots.
And via the AFAP:
Posted: Tuesday, 7 August 2018 Category: Media Releases

In response to the Federal Government’s recent decision to allow the Qantas Group to employ a large number of foreign pilots, AFAP President, Captain David Booth said, “There is not a pilot shortage in Australia, rather a bottleneck in the pilot training pipeline”.  

Captain Booth went on to say, “This decision is a slap in the face to hundreds of qualified young Australian pilots who are ready, willing and able to take up pilot positions in the Qantas Group”. 

“It is very disappointing that the government has seen fit to reward Qantas for their poor planning with this band-aid solution”, said Captain Booth. 

The aviation industry has always been cyclical. As recently as 2015 the Qantas Group said it had too many pilots and took steps such as base closures and forced demotions.  They also halted all recruitment into Qantas mainline for the period 2009 to 2016 despite forecast pilot retirements and having numerous orders for new B787 aircraft in the pipeline. 

The Australian Federation of Air Pilots (AFAP) strongly opposed this request and made a detailed submission to Qantas and Government addressing and putting forward 10 reasons why the labour agreement is not the appropriate answer. 

The AFAP has requested and remains open to hold round-table meetings with all the stakeholders to find a comprehensive and sustainable solution to the current problems being experienced by general aviation and regional airlines.  
------------ ENDS ------------ 

The AFAP is the largest professional association representing Australian commercial air pilots. 
Enquiries to:
Simon Lutton, AFAP Executive Director                                                                     
M 0419 482 582

Captain David Booth, AFAP President
M 0410 411 906 E

MTF...P2  Cool


Sorry ‘K’, steam on............

What an absolute crock of shit re Elaine Joyce importing 457 drivers! This Irish mincing queen was instrumental in pushing for 10 hour imported Indian cadets to sit in the R/H seat of JQ 320’s and the other parasite Boston Bruce pushed equally as hard. Now we have the Leprachaun yet again pushing the mantra of cheap imported  labor when we have plenty of ready, willing and able local talent wanting to display the Kangaroo proudly on their pay slip. This pint sized vermin has single handedly pushed to dumb down Australian quality and safety in the airline sector for the sake of personal bonuses and shareholder returns for over 15 years now. Somebody, anybody, please, fuck him off!!

Implicit in this back room dirty deal is another level of parasite - Turnbull and McDo’nothing. Two snivelling pissweak grubs bending over for the mighty Qantas and allowing the power hungry Joyce to amply enter them with room to spare. This is outrageous. So much local talent has again been dealt a mighty pineapple and had career aspirations crushed. VOTE THE LNP OUT!

The Russian Ministry knows how to deal with those who act disloyal and like traitors to their country. What a shame we didn’t have a leader like Putin or a Trump in our country, a leader that wouldn’t sanction the painting of a national airline carrier in rainbow colours or allow his country’s citizens to be kicked in the teeth while importing cheap labour and giving away billions to corrupt countries.

FFS, I am over this......


CAO 48.1 update: Fatigue wars are back on Confused 

Via the Oz Friday... Wink

Quote:Qantas pilot fatigue put to test
[Image: 7f95c848d1cdba53f08c760902ac71e2]ROBYN IRONSIDE

Qantas pilots are about to embark on a groundbreaking “fatigue trial” as the airline deals with the challenge of crewing ultra long-range flights.

Australian and International Pilots Association president Murray Butt said airlines had been left to self-manage fatigue, with the Civil Aviation Safety Authority yet to enforce new fatigue risk management guidelines.

“The regulator has been caught out on this one,” Captain Butt said.

“It’s almost three or four years that they’ve been conducting a review on (regulation) CAO 48 and each time they get close to making a decision, it’s been thwarted by the lobby from the regional (airlines) who are concerned about their ability to introduce fatigue risk management.”

He said also of concern was CASA’s failure to define ultra-long-range flying.

“They’ve taken a hands-off ­approach,” Captain Butt said.

“Rather than coming down with a specific set of guidelines, they’re requiring the airlines to have a system that does its own self-monitoring.”

The fatigue trial would initially track A380 pilots on Sydney-Los Angeles flights before focusing on 787-9 flight crews on the 17-hour Perth-London route.

Pilots involved in the trial would be monitored via a fatigue app incorporating the “psychomotor vigilance self test” developed by NASA for astronauts on the International Space Station.

They would also fill out sleep diaries, in an effort to establish the best time for rest breaks and roster breaks.

“It’s a very broad study and it will take into account when you get into a place that’s 10 hours out of your time zone, what is the ideal rest period before you do that duty again,” Captain Butt said.

A Qantas spokesman confirmed that the airline was currently working with a “world leading research team and Monash University to examine the relationship between fatigue and our new routes, such as Perth-London”.

“As we look forward to Project Sunrise and our aim of operating flights from the east coast of Australia to London and New York, the ability for us to manage ­fatigue in co-operation with our employees and regulators is of course a heavy focus for us,” the spokesman said.

He said the airline had a ­“mature fatigue risk management system in place”.

CASA spokesman Peter Gibson said fatigue risk management guidelines were in the process of being updated following an independent review that reported back in March.

“The review found CASA should provide specific guidance on ultra-long-range operations, including in-flight rest provisions and requirements,” Mr Gibson said. “CASA is planning to amend the new fatigue rules in 2018 and publish a new transition timeline in early September.”

Currently airlines operating ultra-long-range operations, such as Qantas’s Perth-London service, were required to provide additional mitigation for fatigue risks and identify these in their ­fatigue risk management system, Mr Gibson said.

Captain Butt said the typical crew arrangements for long-haul flights was a captain and first officer, and two second officers, or “cruise pilots”.

It was up to the captain and first officer to take off, then they split into crews with the second officers for the rest of the flight, before coming together again for landing.

“It is not the ideal arrangement,” Captain Butt said.

“We’d prefer the Singapore Airlines’ system of two captains and two first officers.”

AIPA also aired concerns about the rest facilities on the Boeing 787 Dreamliners that consisted of a single twin-bunk pod for pilots.

“They designed an aircraft that will fly for 20 hours, without much thought to the rest facilities for both the flight and cabin crew,” Captain Butt said.

“Airlines have the commercial pressure of whatever space they use for crew rest is space they can not use for commercial purposes and in the case of the 787s, the Boeing test pilots fully admitted to us that commercial interests won out.”


NASA fatigue test for Qantas pilots

[Image: f3d1b37edba0df4cfffc3772799edcde]ROBYN IRONSIDE

Qantas pilots will be monitored for fatigue with a test developed by NASA to track the health of astronauts on the International Space Station.

The fatigue trial is designed to help the airline understand the best time to schedule rest breaks and downtime for pilots flying ultra-long-haul routes such as Perth-London.

The 12-month trial will also determine the adequacy of the single crew rest area on the Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner, which ­pilots consider less than ideal.

Sleep diaries, surveys and movement and light sensors will be used to monitor fatigue before, during and after a flight, along with an app featuring the Psychomotor Vigilance Self Test that measures reaction times.

NASA used the PVT on the International Space Station.

Australian and International Pilots Association president Murray Butt said the trial was a welcome initiative by Qantas in the absence of relevant fatigue risk-management guidelines for ultra-long-haul flights from the Civil Aviation Safety Authority.

Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce has flagged an intention of adding more ultra-long-haul routes as part of Project Sunrise.

Captain Butt said pilots were disappointed CASA was taking a “hands-off approach”.

“We would prefer they had some hard guidelines and some hard limitations to start with, but CASA has chosen not to go down that route,” he said.

“They have not even come up with a definition of ultra-long-range flying, which everywhere else in the world is considered anything over 16 hours.”

MTF...P2  Cool

Via AJ and the Red Rat... Wink


The Qantas Group has today confirmed it will open its Pilot Academy across two locations in regional Australia to meet anticipated demand.

The Academy is part of the Qantas Group’s plans to build a long-term talent pipeline for its airlines and the broader industry to meet the increasing need for skilled aviators. Boeing’s latest estimates show that 790,000 more pilots will be required globally over the next 20 years, around one third of them in Asia Pacific.

Plans for the Qantas Group Pilot Academy were announced in February this year and it’s expected the first site will be operational during 2019. Nine regional cities across Australia – Alice Springs, Bendigo, Busselton, Dubbo, Launceston, Mackay, Tamworth, Toowoomba and Wagga Wagga – have been shortlisted. A decision on both sites will be announced in coming weeks.

Qantas Group CEO Alan Joyce said that initial scoping had shown that two locations would be needed to reach the Academy’s potential.

“We’re aiming to train up to 100 pilots in year one but we expect this to grow to as many as 500 a year and that can only be achieved if we have more than one location,” Mr Joyce said.

“Adding up to 250 students plus instructors and support staff to any of these places needs the right infrastructure at airports, but also in the towns themselves.

“The Academy represents a commercial opportunity for Qantas, but it’s also important for the future of Australian aviation. We expect that pilots completing their training with the Academy could fly for other airlines, the defence force or services like the Royal Flying Doctors.”

Mr Joyce said the Qantas team involved in selecting the locations had been impressed at the community support for the investment across Australia.

“Our team has travelled across the country to meet with community leaders, airport operators and local suppliers in each of the nine shortlisted locations,” Mr Joyce said.

“We’ve been really impressed with the enthusiasm from each of the shortlisted cities. It’s been fantastic. And it’s reflected in the levels of support put forward by governments, councils and the private sector.

There’s a lot of excitement about using the Academy to leverage more jobs and investment for the region.

We really appreciate the time and effort they’ve put in to the bids.”

The Academy’s second site is expected to be operational in 2020. The total initial investment of $20 million is unchanged, reflecting the levels of third party support.

Almost 17,000 people have so far registered their interest in the Academy via

The national carrier is encouraging more women to consider a career in aviation, which globally stands at just three per cent. To date, around 16 per cent of people registering interest in the Academy are female.

MTF...P2  Tongue

That’s not cricket; is it vicar?

Not certain if P2 can isolate the RAA deputation’s ‘speech’ at the Wagga indaba; but it would be useful. Watching the live feed at the time, I thought that particular speech and the general attitude of the speaker was ‘off’; but dismissed the notion as RAA simply hedging their bets, being totally dependent on maintaining the goodwill (and funding) they enjoy of CASA. Looking at my notes, they have little to loose by supporting a change to the Act although there is not a lot more they can gain, so a neutral stance toward the regulator and weighing into the Act debate would do no harm. But something rang a faint warning bell, which, to my chagrin, I ignored while trying to keep up with the work being done on the broader canvass.

Recent developments brought that time back to mind and crystalized the impression that speech left behind. I did some digging about the place; it seems, despite the howls of protest from it’s very own membership the RAA board are determined to keep the AOPA ‘trademark’ for their own. I’m told there is to be an extraordinary meeting called to vote on 2 items.

1) The trademark; and, (2) whether those responsible for hi-jacking it should be fired.

Sunfish – “I received an email, as many of you will have today, that allegedly asserts that RAA has trademarked the identifiably AOPA trademark slogan: "Freedom To Fly" in Australia. The letter further alleges that despite entreaties from some RAA members, the Board and CEO of RAA have allegedly refused to either withdraw the registration, or perhaps more usefully assign it to AOPA in perpetuity. My own opinion, if all this is true, is unprintable, not because of what it says about RAA but because what it says about the industry.

Hear, hear - Sunny pretty much sums it up for mine. No winners for industry in the thing; but plenty to loose. I can’t believe the rank and file of RAA actually want to assist in driving a wedge between the two schools of operating. I’m all for a friendly, competitive environment, both outfits need membership, although they are, in essentials, different beasts. United in ‘reform’ for the betterment of aviation, there is half a chance of benefit to both. Divided only plays one sad song.

IMO, this distasteful, pointless episode needs to be ended, soonest. Release the ‘trademark’ let the RAA management come up with their very own ‘jingle’ and let harmony rule, before the inevitable happens. The least of which will be a huge legal cost to the RAA membership: never doubt the AOPA ability to fight back. They have in the past and will again, if pushed.

Toot – sad – toot.

The call has been put out for a General Meeting of the RAAus membership.  Whether it gets up or not depends on whether we get the 100 members necessary to make it happen.  While I can't personally attend, I have added my voice and given my proxy vote, as I believe the RAAus action to be disgusting, and that's putting it lightly.

Michael Linke has posted an open letter on farcebook:

Quote:Dear Ben,

An open letter to AOPA and RAAus members and the members of the aviation community

On 17 August (followed by your public statement on 20 August) you expressed concern over RAAus registering the phrase “Freedom to Fly”. On 17 August, we wrote to you and said that we had registered the phrase as a public effort to make sure that it can be widely used in the public sphere by all non-profit organisations engaged in the aviation space, as it has been used liberally in the past by so many.

We agree with that principle and welcome expressing the value and meaning of this phrase in our industry. It may be used openly and without limit by any non-profit aviation organisation. As previously conveyed we encourage AOPA to use the phrase freely. RAAus will do so too, and supports others who seek the freedom to fly to do the same - freely, openly and without restriction.

In due course our registration will expire. We have no present plan to seek re-registration as our wish is to have this phrase used clearly for the benefit of Australian aviation as a whole.


Michael Linke

And a rather well-written response:

Quote:Mr Linke,
Thank you for your reply. It is rather nicely worded however, I find your actions to this point do not mirror your words. You seem to believe that taking an altruistic response at this stage, saying you “registered the phrase as a public effort to make sure that it can be widely used in the public sphere by all non-profit organisations engaged in the aviation space, as it has been liberally used in the past by so many”, makes this all better and paints your actions in a positive light.

Let me speak to this.

Firstly you have contradicted yourself. It was never registered previously and you state yourself it had been liberally used in the past by so many, so why the need to register it?

Secondly, why would registering a trademark allow it to be used more widely? Would all non-profit organisations who wish to use this phrase “liberally” need to seek licensing from the RAAus?

Thirdly, your are encouraging AOPA to use a phrase freely, something they have been doing for the last 69 years, so now they need RAAus permission to use something that previously required no permission and has been and still is clearly associated with them, both in this country and internationally?

Fourthly, you are, by your own graces, allowing the trademark to expire. So why did you register it in the first place if you believed it was “liberally used” by others in the first place.

Fifthly, how many other non-profit aviation organisations have ever had a problem using this phrase in anything they have ever done? I would dearly love to know what if any other non-profit organisations in this country have ever had an issue with AOPA and the use of the phrase. Or do those other non-profit aviation organisations simply respect that, “freedom to fly” is AOPA’s phrase and they have enough belief in their own organisation to respectfully not effectively steal someone else’s slogan?

Sixthly, I think you can see from the response on social media and the number of emails/contacts you have received on this, that the use of RAAus members money to register someone else’s commonly and internationally recognised phrase as your own was the wrong move on your part, regardless of your apparently altruistic intentions (sic). Perhaps you realise this and are now in “damage control” and trying to “spin this” as best as you can to minimise damage resulting from your decision?

I am an RAAus member. You may believe what you have written above but from everyone I have spoken to, they will be able to see through the spin that is contained in the above letter. The above response is simply a few of the holes I see in your statement.

As a member, I call on the RAAus board to immediately surrender the trademark (what is a few months Mr Linke, if you are going to let it expire anyway?). What they chose to do for those responsible for this, well the members are watching and I hope they show the leadership we all are praying they have.

Kind Regards

Hopefully sanity will prevail..

United we conquer and divided we fall?  Rolleyes  

For those of you wanting to know the background to this bunfight... Dodgy

Via Oz Flying:

Quote:[Image: aopa_bus_web1.jpg]

AOPA and RAAus in Dispute over Slogan
21 August 2018
Comments 6 Comments

Recreational Aviation Australia (RAAus) and the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association (AOPA) look set to do battle over the use of the phrase "Freedom to Fly".

The dispute erupted last week after it emerged that RAAus was granted a trade mark registration for the slogan on 27 June this year. AOPA claims it has used the term for several decades.

According to AOPA CEO Ben Morgan, RAAus sent AOPA a letter last week stating that AOPA would need to pay a licence fee if they continued to use the slogan.

"Ironically, it now seems that our 'Freedom to Fly' is no longer free, but available to the highest bidder," Morgan said in his reply to RAAus.

"The AOPA Australia entirely rejects the RAAus proposal that would force our association to enter a licensing agreement with your organisation for the use of the statement 'Freedom to Fly'.

"That the use of this statement could be restricted, controlled, licensed and used by the RAAus for material gain makes a mockery of its meaning to thousands of aircraft owners and pilots nationwide and casts great shame on the RAAus management."

In defending the trademark move, RAAus CEO Michael Linke said they registered the trademark in order to protect it for all non-profit aviation organisations.

" ... we [have] registered the phrase as a public effort to make sure that it can be widely used in the public sphere by all non-profit organisations engaged in the aviation space, as it has been used liberally in the past by so many," Linke said in a reply to AOPA.

"We agree with that principle and welcome expressing the value and meaning of this phrase in our industry. It may be used openly and without limit by any non-profit aviation organisation. As previously conveyed we encourage AOPA to use the phrase freely. RAAus will do so too, and supports others who seek the freedom to fly to do the same - freely, openly and without restriction."

Sport Aircraft Association of Australia president Tony White has come out in support of the AOPA position in an open letter to RAAus.

"The actions to trademark AOPA Australia's 'Freedom to Fly' slogan is viewed as aggressive and does nothing to foster positive working relationships between the RAAus and its peer associations," White said.

"In light of the fact that AOPA Australia, SAAA and others sought to openly invite the RAAus to the General Aviation Summit in July, we question the judgement in pursuing this trademark."

RAAus has said that when the trade mark expires on 27 November 2027, they have no intention to renew it.

AOPA Australia is believed to have access to an intellectual property solicitor and intends to act to have the trade mark registration revoked.

Under Section 84 of the Trade Marks Act 1995, the registrar may revoke registration of a trade mark "if he or she is satisfied that:

                     (a)  the trade mark should not have been registered, taking account of all the circumstances that existed when the trade mark became registered (whether or not the Registrar knew then of their existence); and
                     (b)  it is reasonable to revoke the registration, taking account of all the circumstances."

Among the circumstances to be taken into account is any use of the trade mark. The legislation also makes it clear that the registrar is under no obligation to consider revoking a trade mark.


Some comments:

Quote:[Image: avatar92.jpg?1427968552]
Mike Borgelt  13 hours ago
I have to side with AOPA on this. They at least, aren't a CASA subcontractor like RAAus is.

[Image: noavatar92.png]

Concerned RAA Member  a day ago

With all of the positive effort and work that AOPA has been doing across Australia, I am really amazed that RAA have wanted to attack them like this. I was recently at Bathurst when AOPA came to town to help out our airport community, which includes a significant number of RAA aircraft owners and pilots - RAA was nowhere to be seen! Ben and his team are really passionate about ensuring that our industry has a future and he was openly inclusive of the RAA participants. How RAA can claim to be Freedom to Fly when they refuse to get involved on issues that count is sad. Pretty clear that they are seeing this as a property grab and trying to hijack the growing visibility and value of AOPA's community efforts. I fly both GA and RAA and I attend briefings and meetings of both organisations and I must say that I dont see AOPA attacking RAA publicly. AOPA from what I read and see is clearly focused on advocating for total industry success and is taking on the regulator, airports and big-government for our freedom. But, having been listening and reading much of what our RAA leadership has been putting out lately, we seem hell bent on bad mouthing GA and projecting this false image that we are the answer to all of the industry's problems, which is just patently untrue. RAA is great, because it gives us hobby pilots a place to exist with simple rules and low cost - we are recreational its in our name. Our organisation is supposed to be about fun, but more and more we are being driven towards complexity, cost and excessive regulation. Our management now appear to be more interested in cuddling up to CASA and being seen with politicians and with this comes more and more involvement by the regulator in our membership affairs. In fact, when I think about it, our membership has never really been asked for its vote on where we would like to go. This whole Freedom to Fly debacle is kind of like the whole Part 149 issue, in that as members we have been thrust into it without awareness or our consent. It seems that more and more important issues are being thrust onto us as members, asking for forgiveness not permission.

[Image: avatar92.jpg?1534932222]

Frank Andrewartha  2 days ago
I am a member of RAA and AOPA and I am most disturbed by
what I am hearing from RAA. This a time where we need industry cohesion and RAA
are seem to be charting a course for a very narrow interest (the Exec
management). Since the RAA elections are on it's time to start talking to the
board nominees and hearing their views. A hysterical backlash is not required
but a strong light on the operation is. The AOPA is known as the “freedom to
fly” pressure group and is better positioned to act as the pointy end of a GA peak
body. The RAA should do what it’s best at. Representing members and not the
apparent mission creep we are seeing now.(Signed in under my name)

[Image: noavatar92.png]

Monkey & Rabbit  2 days ago
As an AOPA member, I see no problem with our association defending its brand and messaging. Quite a low-blow from the RAAus! You would think RAAus would be better off spending its member resources on productive activities, like getting its CTA and 750KG increase, rather than wasting it like this!
MTF...P2  Tongue

A statement on farcebook from RAAus as of 30 minutes ago..

The RAAus CEO has taken action to cancel the registration of the “Freedom to Fly” trademark.

RAAus agrees that the "Freedom to Fly” phrase should be accessible for use by all aviation organisations and businesses.

As we have continued to declare, RAAus wants and encourages everyone to use the phrase which has already been used by so many for many years. RAAus believes that the phrase can become a rallying call for every aviator in Australia. If we are all truly willing and wanting aviation to succeed in Australia, we must all have the freedom to fly.

Just a thought I’m working through while its quiet. Does aviation ‘need’ RA Oz? Which leads me to the next question; just what does RAA ‘think’ it is? That is a fair question.

Perhaps, someone should, very soon tell RAA exactly what it really is; for clearly they have NFI.

Perhaps some of the ‘real’ aviation outfits should tell ‘em how they are perceived.

Seems to me a reality fix is required; I’ll wait a while and see if Master Morgan don’t smack their silly bottoms and put ‘em very firmly back in their place. But if he don’t, then, and I can guarantee it, we will.

Those responsible for this outrage need to depart the fix – soon as possible and hang their silly heads in shame. The damage done to the RAA brand is serious, the betrayal disgusting and the overt deceit is worthy of the very best Casasexuals.

‘Nuff said – for the minute; ducking Tupperware warriors - ………………delusions of grandeur …etc etc.

I wonder if anyone owns the trendy catchphrase ‘Safe Skies For All’? I know CAsA like to use it, but in reality they do nothing for actual safety so they really don’t need to use it.

I might make a call on Monday to see if I can purchase it!

Knee jerk or Jerk?

I think it would be wise to wait and read the full article in Australian Flying. Dick Smith says :-

“(By the way, the September/October 2018 issue of Australian Flying is one of the best issues that has ever come out – it would have taken a lot of hard work. Congratulations to everyone involved.)”

Before we sort out exactly what Monck was rattling on about:

Dick Smith – “In an article in the September/October 2018 issue of Australian Flying headed “Monck on changing the Act” it states that he is not supporting my proposed change to the Act.”

Monck - “… I think by making the Act dual purpose, I think we are opening ourselves up to trouble like we saw in the US…”

BUT – a big one; if RAA are even thinking that the Act does not need changing, then they are ignoring the root of all evil; for that is where the CASA power to do exactly what they’ve been doing is drawn from. Break the Act – break the Iron Ring. Although without the onerous impositions on ‘real’ flying in proper aircraft, RAA have no real purpose – do they. If AOPA had the same concessions – in law, that RAA have (and restrictions for the medically challenged), with an even playing field; then it would be a whole different ball game. Just saying.

By the by – Seems as though AOPA had a very good session with the Senate Committee; positive and productive. Hansard will tell the tale properly. Well done – again – AOPA. Watch now as the CASA board tries to cuddle up and mend fences with AOPA. Typical behaviour of the clan, start a brawl then cry foul because they were only kidding. BOLLOCKS. Don’t start it, if you can’t finish it – that’s what I taught my younglings. IF, big one, CASA suddenly want to mend the fences, it is only because AOPA have hurt them; not beaten them, but hurt them. Aye - Beware the angry man – Machiavelli understood this very, very well.

“If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared”.

Don’t care; darts practice in half an hour and we have Canadian visitors this evening to entertain. Should be fun – hat, coat, darts – Ale awaits (P7’s shout) – gods sparing – weather permitting that is….

Toot toot

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