[aussie500]

I was not sure where to put this, so will try it out here, If it is the wrong spot feel free to move it. This concerns the debris further south, that the AMSA surface search failed to fish up. Basically because the stuff was below the surface of the water and not visible from a ship. I am still hoping to get some photo's of that debris so we can see if we can identify what it was, but will start this off now.

The one that stood out and should be the easiest if the photo's turn up, is the orange rectangular object spotted by an RAAF P3 Orion.
http://www.businessinsider.com.au/object...one-2014-3
Well there were a lot of orange rectangular things on MH370, although AMSA might not have realized it at the time. One is boards in the Main Equipment Center, here is a photo of the Egyptair 667 Main Equipment Center.


And a montage of some of the ones that came down with MH17.


And if you look under the blue carpet in the cabin area, chances are you will find more orange boards, although there are also black ones, maybe white. Some are covered in plastic, some have silver foil or other markings. Here is another similar board from the cabin area, a bit singed.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jeroenakke...103776802/

Not all the flooring in the cabin area seems the same, but a fair bit is orange, padding under the jump seat covers is orange, back of the wall covering in the cargo area might also look orange, and very thin. And there are probably a fair few other orange rectangular things. All that orange fluff would probably just roll up or fall apart rather than hold it's rectangular shape.

All that stuff would potentially wash up some where as debris, but not with the external stuff that separated first. Most of the floor would have probably come off much later as the wreckage was broken up while on the bottom, would have more likely gone in a different direction to the early stuff. And I doubt it would cross over the SIO either, it probably went the other way. But time will tell, eventually.

[Peetwo]

Marnie on the possible MH370 debris; & further Malaysian shenanigans :

Why is suspected MH370 debris taking so long to reach Australia?

March 18, 2016 6:07pm





Marnie O’Neill news.com.au @marnieoneill7
[img=0x0]http://pixel.tcog.cp1.news.com.au/track/component/author/86e4cdf929f450a650d886f1315cb16f?t_product=tcog&t_template=s3/ncatemp/desktop/includes/content-2/authorBlockSingle[/img]

BLAINE Gibson’s suspected MH370 plane part should be here by now.

It should be sitting in the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) lab in Canberra and a panel of international and Boeing specialists should have a pretty good idea about its provenance.

Instead, the triangular “NO STEP” piece is languishing in a room at the Ministry of Transport in Kuala Lumpur, waiting to be joined by another object, a wing part found by South African teen Liam Lotter and thought to have come from the same Boeing 777.

Malaysian authorities have been dispatched to collect Mr Lotter’s piece but ATSB last night could not say whether it had left South Africa yet.

Last week, ATSB Chief Commissioner Martin Dolan told news.com.au that Mr Gibson’s fragment was due to leave Mozambique for Australia on March 9, with analysis expected to have begun on the Monday or Tuesday of this week.

No mention was made of a stop over in Kuala Lumpur. When the suspected fragment of B777 horizontal stabiliser landed in KL on March 10, people half-joked on social media that it would probably never make it to Australia.

US science and aviation journalist and MH370 commentator Jeff Wise tweeted sarcastically: “Possibly the first time in history that part of an aircraft has been hijacked twice.”

Now insiders are questioning whether the delay is a yet another attempt by Malaysia to undermine the investigation.


American self-appointed MH370 investigator, Blaine ‘Indiana Jones’ Gibson talks to reports at Kuala Lumpur International Airport on March 5. Picture: Joshua PaulSource:AP

Mr Gibson’s “NO STEP” piece is set to languish indefinitely on a shiny table in a locked room at Malaysia’s Ministry of Transport.Source:AFP

Malaysian Transport Minister Minister Datuk Seri Liow Tiong Lai told local reporters that the Mozambique debris will undergo local testing before being forwarded to Australia.

“Tests and analysis will be conducted in advance on the debris found in Mozambique before it is sent to Australia for verification if it actually belonged to MH370,” he said on March 10.
“On when the results will be obtained, that I cannot confirm and I will leave it to the experts ... but we hope as soon as possible.”

MH370 Independent Group (IG) member Victor Iannello had previously expressed concern that any testing of debris before it reaches the international panel of investigators may damage the parts.

EIGHT VITAL MH370 QUESTIONS WE NEED ANSWERS TO

However, last night the ATSB disputed Mr Liow’s comments, giving weight to suspicions Australian authorities have been blindsided by their Malaysian counterparts.

“We are not aware of the Malaysian authorities having carried out any tests on the debris recovered by Mr Gibson,” a spokesman told News.com.au.

“We have been advised that the debris remains securely stored in the Ministry of Transport until it is to be transported to Australia.”

The spokesman could not say when that would happen and advised any questions about the logistics of transporting the debris should be directed to Malaysian authorities.
Sources close to the investigation told News.com.au overnight that the development smacks of Malaysia “screwing the ATSB over” and “undermining the investigation”.

One specialist, who requested anonymity, said the ATSB was “probably furious” and was now redirecting all questions about debris to Malaysia in order to prevent being further embarrassment.


Liam Lotter poses with debris thought to have come from MH370. Malaysian officials are expected to escort the piece to KL, where it will be locked in a room at the Ministry of Transport with Mr Gibson’s piece for ‘safekeeping’.Source:AP

The number on Mr Lotter’s part is a zone reference showing where it fits on an aircraft. In this case it matches part of the inboard support fairing for the outboard trailing edge flap of a Boeing 777.Source:AP

The two fragments are absolutely vital to the search for the missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370, which disappeared during an overnight flight from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing on March 8, 2014 with 239 people on board.

Both were found on sandbanks in Mozambique and share a number of curious features, including a notable absence of marine life on their clean, white shiny surfaces — at least to the naked eye.

Mr Gibson’s piece surfaced in the first week of this month while Mr Lotter found his metre-long fragment way back in December while holidaying in Mozambique with his family but didn’t come forward until he saw the stories about the American adventurer’s find.

Another part found on La Reunion by Johnny Begue — the same beachcomber who found the barnacle-encrusted MH370 flaperon last July — was this week declared by French experts as very unlikely to have come from the missing plane.

ARE YOU INADVERTENTLY HOARDING MH370 DEBRIS?

The flaperon remains the only debris found to date that has been confirmed to have come from the missing Boeing 777.


A close-up of Mr Gibson’s piece. The ‘NO STEP’ is in the same font as other Malaysia Airlines aircraft, including that of MH17, which was shot down over Ukraine the same year MH370 vanished.Source:AFP

However, Australian, Malaysian and US officials have expressed enormous optimism about both Mr Gibson’s and Mr Lotter’s pieces. Their condition can potentially tell us a lot about how the aircraft entered the water.

Some specialists have already stated their belief that damage to pieces indicate a high-speed, out-of-control descent, resulting in disintegration on impact — and that’s just from photographs alone. Imagine how much more information could be gleaned from an actual physical examination?

Both Malaysia and Australia have said that debris washing up in Mozambique is consistent with MH370 drift models and indicates the section of southern Indian Ocean currently being combed for the missing plane is correct.

The underwater search is scheduled to end in early July. Mr Dolan has said repeatedly he is confident the aircraft will be found by them but admitted there was no “Plan B” if it wasn’t.

No comment, just disgusted -  &..
 Najib, Liow  & Co

MTF...P2

[Peetwo]

 Update on debris shenanigans - by Ben Sandilands, via Planetalking:

Are these MH370 parts coming clean, or unstuck?

Ben Sandilands | Mar 19, 2016 10:58AM |


The slightly contaminated Liam Lotter find from Mozambique

An issue as simple as the authenticity of two potential fragments of missing flight MH370 has left the credibility of the Malaysian authorities as to what they have done, known and said about the disappearance of the Malaysia Airlines 777-200 ER just over two years ago hanging by a thread.

Are they just poor communicators, or is something sinister going on?

Last December while on a holiday a South African, Liam Lotter, found a fractured object bearing the part number of an access panel to an area on the outer right wing of a Boeing 777 on a Mozambique shore.

Late in February Blaine Gibson, an American who has been investigating the disappearance of the flight, on 8 March 2014, on its way from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing with 239 people on board, found what appears to be a torn fragment of the stubby right hand side horizontal stabilizer of a 777 on a sandbar elsewhere in Mozambique.

Mr Gibson found what he had been hoping to find, while Mr Lotter didn’t realise the significance of his souvenir until learning of that discovery.

Both objects appeared superficially at least to be devoid of marine life fouling, so abundantly obvious on a flaperon from the right hand side of the wing of a 777 recovered from the French island of a La Réunion to the east of Mozambique in the Indian Ocean in July.

(There is in fact some evidence of marine contamination in both Mozambique objects, but it appears very slight.)

That flaperon was positively identified as coming from MH370 after an investigation in France, ordered by a public prosecutor inquiring into the deaths of four French nationals on that flight. It is the only fragment of the missing Malaysian Airlines flight to have been positively identified to this day.

So far as can be established, these two superficially surprisingly clean Mozambique fragments that were supposedly destined for examination in Australia by the ATSB, which is managing the sea floor search for MH370, are in Kuala Lumpur, in “safe keeping” pending examination.

The cleanliness of the Mozambique finds has been forensically assessed by a range of experts, and with helpful comparative illustrations, in this analysis by US science writer Jeff Wise here. Consider it compulsory reading.

If these parts are found to be bogus, or from a 777 parts inventory, or tampered with, or unable to be linked to MH370, there are the most serious of consequences for the overall investigation of the airliner’s disappearance, and perhaps for the authorities, or other persons or person.

They may or may not impact further on the credibility of the Malaysian authorities, who are known to have mislead their initial search partners from Day One by not revealing that it was known that MH370 had diverted westwards across the Malaysia Peninsula, while they continued to insist the then mostly aerial search for wreckage go further into the South China Sea and even northwards across central Asia.

There are so many serious issues with the Malaysian response to the circumstances pertaining to MH370 and its disappearance that a finding that these claimed fragments involve a deception will have bring all of those unresolved matters to the fore.

The ATSB has said remarkably little about the investigation of the Mozambique discoveries  other than initially confirming that they would be sent to Australia for examination.

It never said via Kuala Lumpur for an unknown period.

Establishing at the outset that these fragments are in fact from ‘a’ 777 shouldn’t take very long at all. Determining what damage they have experienced, and what inferences can be taken from such damage , and whether indeed they can be unambiguously declared to be part of MH370, could all take much longer.

That is why the reference in this response to queries to the ATSB to an examination by the Malaysian authorities, the ATSB and Boeing is puzzling in that there would only need to be one such examination, maybe even in the US.

Regarding the topic of Malaysian radar data, the authority to release that information remains, of course, with Malaysia. The ATSB does not have any reason to believe that there exists data significant to the search which has not been provided to us. We are not, however, empowered to release data which does not belong to us.

As regards the flaperon and the pieces of debris that may come from MH370, there is little to say until the formal examinations of all the pieces have been completed (and, in the cases of the pieces from Mozambique, commenced). The French judicial authorities have not yet completed their examination of both pieces found on La Reunion. We are corresponding with the Bureau d’Enquetes and d’Analsyses on this. The examination of the Mozambique pieces has not yet commenced, but it is to be undertaken soon  by investigators from Malaysia, Australia and Boeing.

The reference to a second part found on La Réunion had already been discounted by the ATSB in its most recent update as being unlikely to be from an aircraft.
However this ATSB to a general inquiry after the last weekly search update indicates the French are looking at that second item.

The flicking of persistent inquiries about radar data is not something those who are studying MH370 would take kindly. It is critical to understanding the circumstances of the southwards flight of the jet to oblivion in the south Indian Ocean to know precisely what that data contains.

There are various interpretations that can be put on the reluctance of Malaysia to authorize release of this information, but national security doesn’t cut it anymore since we have no reason to believe it isn’t already in the hands of other directly or indirectly involved states.

One possibility that can’t as yet be dismissed is that the data is so incomplete, or poorly annotated, that it would be an embarrassment if released.

It can already be inferred from the tribulations of the ATSB led search that the data that was provided to the search strategy advisors is so inexact as to introduce massive additional uncertainties into flight path predictions, even though the satellite pings from MH370 tell how long it remained in the air and how high the Inmarsat satellite that received them was above the horizon as seen from the 777.

The guidance from the ATSB also glides over the possibility of friction between the Australian search manager and Malaysia over the handling of the Mozambique parts.

That isn’t a valid criticism of the ATSB itself. It can’t be expected to take up any position regarding its Malaysia, or China, search partners.

Everything is just fine and harmonious, move along, there is nothing to see here.

 
The commentary on the Jeff Wise analysis was mainly on Ben's earlier blog piece:

Are claimed Mozambique MH370 fragments too clean to be true?


Ben Sandilands | Mar 18, 2016 7:39AM |



The Dropbox album of Blaine Gibson’s find on a Mozambique sandbar

 
Some comments:

5
Simon Gunson
Posted March 18, 2016 at 1:19 pm | Permalink

It is Jeff Wise who can only be described politely as the deception. More of a science fiction writer than a credible commentator. He is fighting a rear guard action to discredit debris because he looks such a fool for blaming Putin and alleging MH370 is buried under the end of Yubileyniy Runway in Kazakhstan.

People who take Jeff seriously are in jeopardy of discrediting themselves, you included Ben.

Barnacle larvae cannot attach to a surface unless there is a bacterial film which they can feed from.

For this film to develop the surface must be either constantly submerged for several weeks, or else the host surface must be made of wood or some other object that can absorb the bacteria required for bacterial growth.

I know in the world of science fiction anything is possible, but Jeff, the rest of us struggle on in the real world. Now please, do try and get a real job.

6
Ben Sandilands
Posted March 18, 2016 at 1:36 pm | Permalink

Simon,
I think your comment is unworthy. You can have it left up, which reflects on you rather than Mr Wise, or you can ask for it to be removed.

The post Jeff Wise made was scholarly and sourced to named authorities, none of whom could conceivably have an interest in any particular outcome. He could also be wrong. Kazakhstan is engraved in the unforgiving and undeletable archives of the WWW forever, until the asteroid comes (or whatever). But this is something different, and it leads to the bigger issues of disclosure of vital information about radar records and deeper examination of the flaperon that despite a great deal of questioning by yourself, and myself, and a lot of people who otherwise can’t agree on much, remain unanswered.

7
Simon Gunson
Posted March 18, 2016 at 1:51 pm | Permalink

Dan
Much as I accuse the Malaysians of falsifying radar claims I really don’t think they are sophisticated enough to plant evidence without being noticed.

Even the flaperon, has if anything, disclosed abysmal record keeping by MAS Wings maintenance in their failure to keep good records, rather than sophistication as liars.
The other thing that must be said about the prospect of planting evidence is that spare parts for the Boeing 777 model are in such short supply that perfectly airworthy -200 models are being parted out to satisfy demand to keep -300 models flying. It just isn’t possible to procure used parts without an obvious trail of evidence.

8
Simon Gunson
Posted March 18, 2016 at 2:00 pm | Permalink
I will leave it up Ben. I call a spade a spade.

The person I suggest most guilty of deception in this case after Malaysian authorities of course appears to be Jeff Wise. Why must every explanation he comes up with be worthy of a James Bond thriller?

Does he take us all for fools?

This man owes many MH370 relatives, several of whom have become my friends, an apology for silly misleading speculations about hijackings ordered by President Putin.
Meanwhile a group called #VeritasMH370 is preparing to launch a private seabed search further south related to debris sighted from 16-25 March 2014 which may someday oblige Jeff Wise to make a huge apology, but somehow I doubt one will ever arrive.

9
Brock McEwen
Posted March 18, 2016 at 2:32 pm | Permalink

Simon: like you, I find Jeff’s pet culprit implausible – and I understand your point about potential motive for discrediting debris.

But Jeff’s article quotes at least seven experts who together put forward a compelling argument that something is amiss, here. Your point about bacterial films may be valid, but by itself, it doesn’t even begin to rebut this expert testimony in aggregate.
A bright, point-by-point dissection of the scientific assessments offered by each expert will persuade me far more than will any heated attack on the journalist who compiled them.

Brock gets his QON answered:

Brock McEwan - It is possible – in fact, it is looking increasingly likely – that the only ostensibly “productive” sortie of the five may not, in fact, have been productive at all.

If so: I look forward to hearing the fifth of five separate excuses for why Fugro Discovery went over four MONTHS (Oct.22, 2015 until Feb. 27, 2016) without actually increasing the area searched.

.


10
Brock McEwen
Posted March 18, 2016 at 2:56 pm | Permalink
While I have the microphone: the ATSB responded to my query re: four of Fugro Discovery’s tracks which were repeated in Feb/March (about which I posted to Ben’s “Mozambique” blog a couple of weeks ago):

“Yes, there was an issue with the sidescan sonar on Fugro Discovery’s late December towfish runs – the starboard channel sidescan sonar was found to be degraded in its outer regions. The degraded section encroached beyond the overlap section of the adjacent line. The lines were subsequently rerun with a suitable offset by Fugro Discovery during its current swing to ensure adequate SSS coverage.”
I have a follow-up e-mail in, to try to determine exactly how many days of this sortie were “degraded”. If it is a large number, then, over a four-month span, Disco had five wasted sorties in a row – each for a different reason.

And finally from Tango:

17
Tango
Posted March 19, 2016 at 2:30 am | Permalink

Simon also has his own cult, he makes claims pulled out of pure vacuum on how thing work on an aircraft in which he was not on, is not qualified to discuss if he was, has not evidence of ad nausea.

What you need to know about Simon he has an agenda, he is not an independent thinker in any way shaper or form, he is a defense attorney come up with all sorts of implausible statements out of thin air.

Pot calling the kettle black in US terms.

Have any of you lived on a beach? I did, for many years.

Ever see a glass ball (or float) ? Pure slick glass and they both age and acquire marine growth (not necessarily barnacles)

Nothing that is in the ocean is not deteriorated by the expose in the sea of 2 years.
so we have Wise sneaking into something like 4 countries planting parts? A bit hard to pull off don’t you think?

So, there are some things that I will categorically state.

1. No Boeing 777 structural engineer has said those fragments are part of a 777 of any portion. A lot of so called experts have. I for one do not know what a Boeing 777 tail looks like, what we see is not a true composite, its a laminate.
2. So, we have not a clue if those are 777 parts or just aircraft parts. Aircraft are dissembled all the time and 777s have been on that list.
3. In a short time we will have experts in those parts tell us.

Ben: I would change the statement on the Malaysian authorities on the Radar records to be released from reluctant to refuse. NTSB as you noted did review them but never released.

I find it amazing ironic you have radar and fighters and when you ID a unknown target in your airspace, you don’t dispatch several fighters to check it out (that assume your air force actually can fly them let alone in the dark)

Good thing they are not in a war, sorry, all that stuff is for show, we never planned on using any of it.

18
Tango
Posted March 19, 2016 at 2:46 am | Permalink
Ahh yes, the sand blasting.

I lived on the Pacific ocean, well know for its “activity ”

Well more accurately, the Northern Pacific. Less viable for marine grown but active.
No such sand blasting takes place. Too low energy. Sand blasters are hooked up to compressor that put out a minimum of 90 psi (per square inch) and directed in narrow cones. Call it hurricane force plus. Industrials sand blasters are higher still (typical shop air is no less than 145 psi and it goes easily up to 250.

All that sounds good unless you work with that stuff.

Any removal of surface stuff also leaves deposits, salt water and material degradation.

MTF...P2

[Peetwo]

Hippy Girl scoops the MSM & the ATSB -

Hippy Girl breaks MH370 news for Australia’s ATSB!

Ben Sandilands | Mar 21, 2016 8:08AM |

The two possible fragments of MH370 found on Mozambique shores arrived in Australia on Sunday morning from Kuala Lumpur according to an apparent media statement by Malaysia’s Transport Minister Liow Tiong Lai posted on social media overnight by Hippy Girl.

Hippy Girl‏@h1ppyg1rl 10h10 hours ago

@RadiantPhysics @ManvBrain Confirmation that debris arrived in Australia this morning. pic.twitter.com/vP83284pw3

Confirmation, however belated, is expected from Australia’s ATSB sometime today, perhaps even with a press conference by Liow’s new counterpart in Australia, Darren Chester.

The fragments were rested in Kuala Lumpur on their long journey to Canberra, where they will be examined by the ATSB, Malaysia officials and Boeing, which made the Malaysia Airlines 777-200ER which vanished on 8 March 2014 with 239 people onboard on a red eye flight from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing.

One fragment, found in last December by Liam Lotter, is stenciled with a number that matched the Boeing parts number for an access panel to the outer right hand side of a 777 wing.

Another, found in February by Blaine Wilson, appears to have been torn from the right hand side horizontal stabilizer of a Boeing 777, that being the stubby wings seen at the base of the tail which houses the vertical stabilizer.

Both fragments bore few traces of marine life.

It is assumed that the ATSB made sure that Australian Customs hasn’t seized the two potential parts of MH370 and cleansed them of all surviving vestiges of marine life colonization, which could prove critical to determining their provenance, and would in Australian law, apparently constitute unlawful interference with the wreckage of a plane crash prior to an official investigation.
Further developments are awaited.

[Peetwo]

Hippy Girl scoops the MSM & the ATSB -

Hippy Girl breaks MH370 news for Australia’s ATSB!

Ben Sandilands | Mar 21, 2016 8:08AM |

The two possible fragments of MH370 found on Mozambique shores arrived in Australia on Sunday morning from Kuala Lumpur according to an apparent media statement by Malaysia’s Transport Minister Liow Tiong Lai posted on social media overnight by Hippy Girl.

Hippy Girl‏@h1ppyg1rl 10h10 hours ago

@RadiantPhysics @ManvBrain Confirmation that debris arrived in Australia this morning. pic.twitter.com/vP83284pw3

Confirmation, however belated, is expected from Australia’s ATSB sometime today, perhaps even with a press conference by Liow’s new counterpart in Australia, Darren Chester.

The fragments were rested in Kuala Lumpur on their long journey to Canberra, where they will be examined by the ATSB, Malaysia officials and Boeing, which made the Malaysia Airlines 777-200ER which vanished on 8 March 2014 with 239 people onboard on a red eye flight from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing.

One fragment, found in last December by Liam Lotter, is stenciled with a number that matched the Boeing parts number for an access panel to the outer right hand side of a 777 wing.

Another, found in February by Blaine Wilson, appears to have been torn from the right hand side horizontal stabilizer of a Boeing 777, that being the stubby wings seen at the base of the tail which houses the vertical stabilizer.

Both fragments bore few traces of marine life.

It is assumed that the ATSB made sure that Australian Customs hasn’t seized the two potential parts of MH370 and cleansed them of all surviving vestiges of marine life colonization, which could prove critical to determining their provenance, and would in Australian law, apparently constitute unlawful interference with the wreckage of a plane crash prior to an official investigation.

Further developments are awaited.

Updated *


The ATSB has responded to Plane Talking and Hippy Girl as follows:

Both pieces of debris were packaged in Africa and remained that way until arrival.  They will be opened today with investigators from a range of countries and organisations in attendance.  Procedures appropriate to maintain the integrity of this potential evidence have been followed.  We do not anticipate any statements on the findings of the examination until the process is complete.

&..courtesy the Star.com:

Liow: Debris now in Australia






#gigya-share-vertical { margin: 0px 10px 10px 10px; }


  
KUALA LUMPUR: The two pieces of debris found in Mozambique have arrived in Australia, where an investigation team will look for possible links to missing flight MH370, said Transport Minister Datuk Seri Liow Tiong Lai (pic).

Examination of the pieces, to be carried out by an international team of experts led by Malaysia, is expected to begin today.

“The MH370 Safety Investigation Team will carry out the examination and analysis on the two pieces of debris with the assistance of experts from the Australian Transport Safety Bureau, the Department of Civil Aviation Malaysia (DCA), Malaysia Airlines (MAS) and Boeing to verify their origins.

“This is in order to adhere to full transparency and accountability in accordance with international protocols, whereby both pieces of debris will only be examined in Canberra once it is in the presence of these experts,” Liow said in a statement here yesterday. - P2 -There's that statement again?? Ok then show us the true raw radar records and not the doctored ones presented at the Lido Hotel, Beijing, March 24 2014

Liow expressed hoped that the results from the examination could be made available soon.

If the pieces are indeed from Flight MH370, these would be the second and third parts of the Boeing 777 that had been found, two years after its disappearance.
The first piece of debris was recovered from Mozambique.

The second piece, also from Mozambique, had been brought to South Africa by the family who had discovered it.

A Malaysian team, comprising the DCA, MAS and the MH370 Safety Investigation Team, later retrieved the piece from South African authorities.

Last year, a piece of MH370’s flaperon was discovered washed up on the shores of French La Reunion Island.

On March 5, Liow said that a Malaysian team would comb the beaches of Mozambique in the hope of finding more aircraft fragments.

MTF...P2

[ventus45]

The Malaysians "secured" these two bits of debris - for a few days.
They held them "only" to themselves - for a "reason".
That "reason" was not simply to "consolidate the shipment of the two together".
That is bullshit.  
There was another reason.  
What was that reason ?
We may only speculate.
The fact that Transport Minister Datuk Seri Liow Tiong Lai is continuously repeating the "line" that:-
“This is in order to adhere to full transparency and accountability in accordance with international protocols, whereby both pieces of debris will only be examined in Canberra once it is in the presence of these experts.”
is:-
(a) clearly typical "ON MESSAGE" - spin doctoring 101 Alpha - for the gluttonous consumption of gullible "nerdie" media dummies,
(b) is clearly not credible, and
© is clearly yet another "deception".

The ATSB's examination of these items will produce one of two expected answers - eventually. The odds on the two are 80:20.
The 80:- they "are" from MH-370 (proof of crash in SIO).
The 20:- they "might be" from MH-370, but "not sure" (implied proof of crash in SIO).
After all, the ATSB can not say anything that might not support a crash in SIO, now could they ?  It would make them look pretty stupid re the "search" now wouldn't it.


I think it ia about bloody time that mainstream media "woke up", though I doubt that  they ever will, or even want to.  
Proof of that ?  
Media People Need To Answer This.

Why have you, the mainstream media, never had either the brains, or the guts, (or both)  to demand a factual answer to a single - pivotal - issue - the radar ?  

Any so called "investigative journalist" can search the web and find out quite a lot about radar, even great detail about the radar cross-sections (RCS) OF EVERYTHING FROM AIRLINERS TO BOMBERS TO FIGHTERS TO THE STEALTH AIRCRAFT THEMSELVES.

Journalists, ask yourselves the obvious question.
How can ALL these state of the art - civilian and military primary radars, located in Thailand, Malaysia and Indonesia, ALL "fail to detect, see and track, a 30 squater metre radar energy reflecting mirror in the sky, at clear altitude, and clearly "in range" ?

Answer that, with "definitive proof".

And while you are at it, don't fall for the "flying at low altitude - nap of the earth evasion tactics" bullshit from "the authorities" either.  The time to fly the "official radar indicated route" is IMPOSSIBLE for a B-777 at low altitudes.

There must be another answer.
If you truly are "ivestigate journalists", prove it.

Victor Iannello, and others, gave you "the clues".



Pick them up, and "run with them".

The journalist's credo used to be "The public has a right to know".
Is that still the case ?
Or has that been replaced by:-
"The public has a need to be "entertained" - any bullshit will do".

In short media people - get off your stupid arses, and "Do your bloody job".
Find the answer.

[Peetwo]

The Malaysians "secured" these two bits of debris - for a few days.
They held them "only" to themselves - for a "reason".
That "reason" was not simply to "consolidate the shipment of the two together".
That is bullshit.  
There was another reason.  
What was that reason ?
We may only speculate.
The fact that Transport Minister Datuk Seri Liow Tiong Lai is continuously repeating the "line" that:-
“This is in order to adhere to full transparency and accountability in accordance with international protocols, whereby both pieces of debris will only be examined in Canberra once it is in the presence of these experts.”
is:-
(a) clearly typical "ON MESSAGE" - spin doctoring 101 Alpha - for the gluttonous consumption of gullible "nerdie" media dummies,
(b) is clearly not credible, and
© is clearly yet another "deception".

The ATSB's examination of these items will produce one of two expected answers - eventually. The odds on the two are 80:20.
The 80:- they "are" from MH-370 (proof of crash in SIO).
The 20:- they "might be" from MH-370, but "not sure" (implied proof of crash in SIO).
After all, the ATSB can not say anything that might not support a crash in SIO, now could they ?  It would make them look pretty stupid re the "search" now wouldn't it.


I think it ia about bloody time that mainstream media "woke up", though I doubt that  they ever will, or even want to.  
Proof of that ?  
Media People Need To Answer This.

Why have you, the mainstream media, never had either the brains, or the guts, (or both)  to demand a factual answer to a single - pivotal - issue - the radar ?  

Any so called "investigative journalist" can search the web and find out quite a lot about radar, even great detail about the radar cross-sections (RCS) OF EVERYTHING FROM AIRLINERS TO BOMBERS TO FIGHTERS TO THE STEALTH AIRCRAFT THEMSELVES.

Journalists, ask yourselves the obvious question.
How can ALL these state of the art - civilian and military primary radars, located in Thailand, Malaysia and Indonesia, ALL "fail to detect, see and track, a 30 squater metre radar energy reflecting mirror in the sky, at clear altitude, and clearly "in range" ?

Answer that, with "definitive proof".

And while you are at it, don't fall for the "flying at low altitude - nap of the earth evasion tactics" bullshit from "the authorities" either.  The time to fly the "official radar indicated route" is IMPOSSIBLE for a B-777 at low altitudes.

There must be another answer.
If you truly are "ivestigate journalists", prove it.

Victor Iannello, and others, gave you "the clues".



Pick them up, and "run with them".

The journalist's credo used to be "The public has a right to know".
Is that still the case ?
Or has that been replaced by:-
"The public has a need to be "entertained" - any bullshit will do".

In short media people - get off your stupid arses, and "Do your bloody job".
Find the answer.

2nd your motion "V"

Update from the Minister:

Possible aircraft debris arrives in Australia

Media Release
DC025/2016
21 March 2016

Minister for Infrastructure and Transport Darren Chester said today the two pieces of debris discovered in Mozambique, which may be from an aircraft, have arrived in Australia.

Both items will be examined in Canberra by investigators from Australia and Malaysia, as well as specialists from Boeing, Geoscience Australia and the Australian National University. The items will be examined to determine whether they are from an aircraft, and if so, whether they can be conclusively linked to missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370.

"These are items of interest but, because of the rigorous analysis to be performed, it is not possible to speculate on how long it might take to reach any conclusions," Mr Chester said.

"I would like to assure the loved ones of those on board the aircraft, and the wider travelling community, that the examination will be thorough and undertaken by an experienced international investigation team

MTF..P2

[Gobbledock]

Dougy, Murky's poodle, will be masturbating himself into a frenzy watching and listening to his beloved Miniscules latest puff piece press release!

What a load of bollocks Chester. Piss-weak and fruitless press release. Just another opportunity for you to pick off the low hanging fruit off the aviation tree and cheaply place your stamp on the portfolio. Tell us something we don't already know mate. Tell us how you will kybosh the Part 61 stupidity. Or tell us how you will implement Rev Forsythe's brilliant work. Or tell us how you intend to bring about a new regulatory reform program that will be done in exactly the same manner as our friends in NZ. Or tell us how you will gut and overhaul the laughable and lamentable alphabet soup agencies managed by numptys like Skid'Mark, Electric Blue and Beaker.... Aagh fu#k it, why do I even bother.

Ventus, the presstitutes are robots instructed by puppet masters on what and how to report. They are as equally useless our politicans and not worth a dollop of monkey jizz. You are better off reading some of the articles that people like Sandilands pens at Plane Talking, Alex Jones (USA), Zerohedge, the not-so-mainstream reporters. Reporters who aren't held presstitute to the elite, the Murdoch's, and of course big brother.

As for the Malaysian 'transparency' statement, pleaaaaaase give me a break. Malaysia is just another corrupt and dodgy Asian peddler of Capitalism. You could count the amount of honest Malaysian politicans over the past 50 years on one finger!!! Mr Lai is a joke. And so is any Australian politiican or bureaucrat that stands within 100 feet of the lying shonk.


Steam off......just.

[Kharon]

On the plus side, Chester at least has the sense to take over the ‘announcements’ which means a lot less Beakerspeak. With the election looming large it is a chance to be ‘seen’ as concerned and grab some front page time although he must be careful in his choice of words.

I wonder if his minders are fully aware that Chester has a major, although hidden problem associated with the credibility of the ATSB. Some one should point out that official reports on aviation incidents and accidents are closely scrutinised not only by industry and peer groups, but by insurance companies acting for and against ‘victims’. There are enough holes, some big enough for a horse and cart, in the ATSB credibility to cause serious embarrassment. A sensible man, looking to be re elected would take steps to put distance between himself and the stench emanating from the Beaker bunker, making certain that any and all research data findings were absolutely above board, kosher and made public as soon as practicable. Mud sticks and when the Beaker Malaysia relationship is examined in the wash up, Chester will need plenty of credit and distance to avoid being splattered.

Chester has used a couple of his fourteen honeymoon days; let’s see how fast he can pick up the real picture and act as a fair dinkum minister should do; sure there’s political credit to be gained but at what price? If the presstitutes do get off their collective beam ends and start ‘investigating’ there will be hell to pay. Malaysia can only control press their end; we can only hope our end remains at least partially independent and a little less timid. Brave would be out of the question.

We shall see.

[Peetwo]

Chester on 'sense & credibility'??

P9 - ..I wonder if his minders are fully aware that Chester has a major, although hidden problem associated with the credibility of the ATSB. Some one should point out that official reports on aviation incidents and accidents are closely scrutinised not only by industry and peer groups, but by insurance companies acting for and against ‘victims’. There are enough holes, some big enough for a horse and cart, in the ATSB credibility to cause serious embarrassment. A sensible man, looking to be re elected would take steps to put distance between himself and the stench emanating from the Beaker bunker, making certain that any and all research data findings were absolutely above board, kosher and made public as soon as practicable. Mud sticks and when the Beaker Malaysia relationship is examined in the wash up, Chester will need plenty of credit and distance to avoid being splattered...

I am of the same mind as "K" when it comes to Chester, he is still in a 'honeymoon' period with a DD election perhaps imminent. I would also agree that he appears to be very much more engaged & determined to control the government commentary when it comes to MH370.  

Ministerial appointments

• Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Defence from 18.9.13 to 21.9.15.
  
• Assistant Minister for Defence from 21.9.15 to 18.2.16.
  
• Minister for Infrastructure and Transport from 18.2.16.
  

I would also like to add/join dots on another interesting element (refer above) that would suggest that Chester, the former Assistant Minister for Defence & former Parliamentary Secretary for Defence and now Minister, should be a lot more informed & aware of the ATSB oversighted MH370 SIO deep sea search than we give him credit for:

MH370 SIO search update - 03/12/15

Following on from this...

This AM courtesy of PlaneTalking.. :

MH370: Live notes from special update

Ben Sandilands | Dec 03, 2015 10:14AM |



Malaysia Airlines 777-200ER 9M-MRO, which flew the ill fated MH370 service

An update on the search for missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 is being held at around 1030 eastern Australian daylight time in Canberra. The key points will be logged here, followed as necessary by a considered review of the new information.
The media alert makes no reference to the finding of MH370.

Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Infrastructure and Regional Development Warren Truss and Assistant Minister for Defence Darren Chester will hold a press conference this morning on updated analysis of the search for missing Malaysian Airlines flight MH 370.
 
Defence Science and Technology Group has provided further analysis to inform the Australian Transport Safety Bureau’s latest report: MH 370 – Definition of Underwater Search Area Update, which reaffirms the highest probability of the resting place of the aircraft in the current 120,000 sq km search zone.
 
The report will be released today.
 
Following the Ministers’ press conference [at 1230] the ATSB will conduct a separate technical briefing on the report for interested media.

MH370 with 239 people on board was en route from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing on 8 March 2014 when it disappeared as a transponder identified flight on air traffic control consoles while at 35,000 feet over the Gulf of Thailand.

Notes: Australia commissioned its own review of previous advice on the likely path taken by MH370 to ‘inform’ the new ATSB report on the definition of the underwater search area, and has released it today.

The deputy PM Warren Truss described the new report as ‘fairly heavy technical reading’.

He said the key points made by the new Defence Science and Technology Group confirmed the broad conclusions made by the strategic search panel that the jet turned south and flew to a point along the so-called seventh arc of possible locations of its point of impact with the water over the southern Indian Ocean.

At this point live television coverage in Australia switched back to the mass shooting tragedy in San Bernardino, and it would be fair to say, any aviation reporters living in SE Australia felt relieved that they hadn’t jumped in their cars in an attempt to reach Canberra in time to receive these new insights.

However, the new report hasn’t yet been studied in detail, and there is an ATSB press conference to come in less than two hours time.

Oh no BBB is back??

With beard 'a splendid' it would seem you can't keep our MH370 Super Sleuth Muppet out of the limelight indefinitely, here he is mi-mi-mi-ing around with the mi-mi-mi-miniscule...

   
Hmm...notice how the other dude - Assistant Minister for Defence Darren Chester - tries in vane to make himself scarce...   Can't say I blame him, I think I'd rather chew my arm off rather than be handcuffed to either of those two buffoons..

Chester's short (80 second) appearance at that presser may not have given us much of insight into the soon to be appointed Minister responsible for aviation & indeed MH370. However one has to assume that Chester, representing the Defence department and therefore the DSTG, would be briefed enough with technical details to at least be able to answer basic questions on the DSTG updated report:

MH370: Data review doesn’t support a controlled ditching


Ben Sandilands | Dec 03, 2015 12:52PM |

A new best estimate of the most likely locations of MH370

A comprehensive review by the Australia managed search for missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 says data received from the Boeing 777 shortly before it crashed into the southern Indian Ocean is inconsistent with the jet having made a controlled ditching.

The review (in full here) has also narrowed the width of the primary search strips located along the so called seventh arc of possible impact points in the ocean, but also defined new search zones within the priority search areas.

     
Also having been the Parliamentary Secretary to Defence throughout the two previous Ministers for Defence and prior to the MH370 disappearance, he would have been privy to all interdepartmental communications and government decision making processes related to MH370. He would also probably have had an inkling of the shenanigans & internal politics going on when Angus Houston was appointed to head up and then subsequently taken off heading up the public face of MH370.

Maybe all a coincidence but I'm not so sure??


MTF..P2
    
  

[Ziggy]

image.jpg Size: 85.29 KB  Downloads: 0

Hopefully the era of Pseudo-"TEAMS" will be corrected to reflect the true word and meaning of TEAM.
Too many times the pseudo-teams have slipped into a Narcissistic I. 
Too many times, the rotten apples in the cart infect the rest, spread by the I.

A True-Team, not the new established "Tigger & Pooh" team created by the DAS (which one is he again?), incorporating Industry would make more sense.

But no. 

The I of all pseudo-teams, aka the Puppet Master (have a good idea who you are), insists on driving a wedge between not only the Industry they Represent and are Constituently bound to support the Aviators. Also, depriving General Aviation Aviators of their rights to operate without hindered harassment. Their living contribution to our large land. 
Yet if you challenge the Pseudo-Team, there will be consequences from the I.

Is that a Fair-Dinkum Team Pro-Aviation Growth and Safety Evolving.
I think not?

Unless many Political/Script Writers Heads are pulled out of the ignorant concreted sand, there will be no Evolving within what could be a potentially vibrant, food on the table for our own Pilots relationship. Rather than a battle of Laws which change on a whim (cause "they" can), versus Sustainability and Fairness for our hard working Aussie Pilots.

Get the I out of the Pseudo-Team, then maybe, just maybe, there will be hope for the future of Australian General Aviation's Survival.

Tick-Tock Master of Puppets.
Minutes will turn to Seconds.
It will then be too late.
Time is passing by with zero Remedy near
Just more policies of un-actioned words stuck in gear.
Time for a Serious Public Debate.

Here's hoping Chester can knock the Puppet Master (PM), off their soap-box.

Just come clean on EVERYTHING dirty. 
Only way to move forward.
Get the skulls out of the closet.
Replace the Muppets with truly Honourable people.
Choose wisely.

For ALL who fly, take the I, the Puppet Master, out of the Team Equation for the sake of Safety and Survival of a once thriving Industry before the arse-covering began.
That was the demise of the Aviation Portfolio.

It can be resurrected in good health.
A true team would be capable.
Not led by a Master of Puppets clearly misleading the Australian Public in matters of Aviation.

With an election looming, perhaps it is time to come clean on the dangerous state our Air Safety is in, coupled with the crippling of GA by Laws of disgrace.

Australians would be Gobsmacked if they knew the Truth!
Perhaps now is the time for them to know.

Will the Honourable ones tell them the raw truth.
Or smear the Aviation Portfolio with Cotton Candy and say all is Sweet.

Will you?

Or I will?

Free Speech of the Breach.

Trying to have hope with Chester.
Prove it Sir. 
Prove it with force of corrective action.
Present and Past.
Prove yourself showing integrity of action
Not scripted words.
No self-gratification, just Honesty.

Homework will need be done Mr Chester.
Come to your own conclusions without influence from others opinion.
Then speak the truth with no fear.

Only way forward for this Wonderful Country which is being sold off without a thought for our future Australian generations.

 Ziggy




 

[Peetwo]

  

Are these MH370 parts coming clean, or unstuck?

Ben Sandilands | Mar 19, 2016 10:58AM |


The slightly contaminated Liam Lotter find from Mozambique

Are claimed Mozambique MH370 fragments too clean to be true?


Ben Sandilands | Mar 18, 2016 7:39AM |



The Dropbox album of Blaine Gibson’s find on a Mozambique sandbar

A debris of inconvenience -

Latest update ATSB MH370 SIO search:

Operational Update

At the request of the Malaysian Government, Australia has accepted responsibility for the search for missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370. The Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) is leading the underwater search for MH370 in the southern Indian Ocean.
Joint Agency Coordination Centre MH370 Operational Search Update

23 March 2016

This operational report has been developed to provide regular updates on the progress of the search effort for MH370.  Our work will continue to be thorough and methodical, so sometimes weekly progress may seem slow.  Please be assured that work is continuing and is aimed at finding MH370 as quickly as possible.

Key developments this week

• Fugro Discovery continues to conduct underwater search operations.
  

• Fugro Equator departed the search area on 17 March, and is en route to Fremantle for a scheduled resupply visit.
  

• Havila Harmony departed the search area on 20 March, and is en route to BAE Henderson.
  

• Dong Hai Jiu 101 is en route to Fremantle after an incident on the evening of 21 March in which the failure of a tow cable connector resulted in the loss of the SLH-ProSAS-60 towfish. Recovery options are currently being assessed.
  

• Two pieces of debris found in Mozambique and suspected to be from an aircraft arrived in Australia for examination.
  

• A further piece of possible aircraft debris, suspected to be the cowling from an engine, has been found in South Africa. The Malaysian Government is working with South African officials to arrange for examination of the debris.
  
  

Analysis of debris from Mozambique

Two pieces of debris found in Mozambique arrived in Canberra, Australia, on 20 March for examination. The examination team includes investigators from Australia and Malaysia, along with specialists from Boeing, Geoscience Australia, and the Australian National University. Procedures appropriate to maintain the integrity of this potential evidence have been followed.

The items have been treated at Geoscience Australia’s quarantine-approved facilities. The pieces were visually examined to remove all visible macrofauna and then rinsed, submerged and agitated in water to capture any loose fauna. All water was then passed through a series of sieves with any possible macrofauna retained. The sieved material will then be sorted and possible biological material identified. The items were released from quarantine once they were thoroughly cleaned and all visible signs of possible contamination removed.


Specialists from the Research School of Physics and Engineering at the Australian National University are assisting with the examination. The items have been x-rayed using an advanced scanning facility developed by the university.


Other technical specialists are conducting an examination which will include seeking to identify specific features that may be consistent with the items coming from an aircraft, and if possible, from MH370.

P2 comment - Good to see the suspected MH370 debris parts are being treated properly and that the authorities are intending to be fully transparent about what they discover - about bloody time if you ask me...  

A statement on the findings will be made once the examination process is complete.

Underwater search operations

Weather may continue to impact on search operations but generally, more favourable conditions are being experienced.

More than 95,000 square kilometres of the seafloor have been searched so far.
In the event the aircraft is found and accessible, Australia, Malaysia and the People’s Republic of China have agreed to plans for recovery activities, including securing all the evidence necessary for the accident investigation.

Consistent with the undertaking given by the Governments of Australia, Malaysia and the People’s Republic of China in April last year, 120,000 square kilometres will be thoroughly searched. It is anticipated this will be completed around the middle of the year. In the absence of credible new information that leads to the identification of a specific location of the aircraft, Governments have agreed that there will be no further expansion of the search area.

[i][i][i]Click map to enlarge[/i][/i][/i][i][i][i] [/i][/i][/i]
Weather
Favourable weather conditions are forecast for the search area in the coming days.
 
 

---

Previous versions:

• MH370 Operational Search Updates
  

Related: MH370
 

Another day and another potential piece of MH370 debris, from Ben Sandilands today:

Few doubts about latest MH370 fragment found in South Africa


Ben Sandilands | Mar 23, 2016 7:38AM |


Social media image of the internal structure of the part found on a South African beach
Almost out of frame given the terrible news about the Brussels attacks a fragment of a Rolls-Royce 777 engine cowling identical to those that were on missing flight MH370 has been found on a South African beach.

Malaysian authorities are immediately sending a team to South Africa to examine and repatriate the object which shows part of a Rolls-Royce logo on its external surface and a honeycomb structure within which bears obvious similarities to the two objects from Mozambique which are now under examination in Australia by the ATSB.

If these three objects are from MH370, and the South African find makes that seem highly likely, the weathered state of the composite material in them shows a common degree of resilience when it comes to hosting marine life compared to the heavily encrusted alloy surface of an MH370 flaperon found on the French island of La Réunion last July.

The flaperon was identified as coming from the missing Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777-200ER , which vanished on 8 March 2014 on a flight from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing with 239 people aboard.

Duncan Steel, a member of the Independent Group of scientists who have been auditing and analysing the released information about MH370 and the conduct and assumptions of the Australian led sea floor search for wreckage, says the lack of large barnacles on these items would have allowed them to drift further from the point of impact in the south Indian Ocean than the flaperon.

The image below shows what appears to be an access panel from the right hand side of the 777’s wing on a Mozambique shore last December for comparison with the latest find shown at the top of the post.

The slightly contaminated Liam Lotter find from Mozambique

Blue Whale in the SIO??

It is strange but no one seems to be prepared to talk about the Blue Whale in the SIO, i.e. the more potential parts that keep on washing up on the SE Coast of Africa the less likely it is that the ATSB SIO search priority area is the highest probability final resting place of MH370..


MTF...P2
 

[Peetwo]

Blue Whale in the SIO??

It is strange but no one seems to be prepared to talk about the Blue Whale in the SIO, i.e. the more potential parts that keep on washing up on the SE Coast of Africa the less likely it is that the ATSB SIO search priority area is the highest probability final resting place of MH370..  

The DOI (debris of inconvenience) - Part II

From Minister Chester's 24 March press release - Examination of debris recovered from Mozambique - it is starting to become pretty obvious that the government has drawn a line in the sand on the current ATSB defined MH370 search priority area, from which they feel they cannot retreat:

“The analysis has concluded the debris is almost certainly from MH370,” Mr Chester said.

“That such debris has been found on the east coast of Africa is consistent with drift modelling performed by CSIRO and further affirms our search efforts in the southern Indian Ocean.

This is despite much expert opinion & well researched factual evidence to the contrary view, that the debris findings (almost certainly from MH370) on Reunion Island and the Mozambique/South African coast could not possibly have come from the SIO search priority area.
The following blog piece from Mike Chillit perfectly highlights this strange disconnection :

Australia’s Drift Model

Posted on March 26, 2016 by Mike Chillit — Leave a reply

The particular drift model Australia’s ATSB has endorsed was developed by that nation’s CSIRO, a behemoth organization with considerable local influence; if somewhat less international recognition. The CSIRO drift model was prepared by Dr. David Griffin one month after the flaperon appeared on Reunion Island. Until then, Australia had repeatedly insisted debris was most likely to wash up on the Indonesian beaches of Sumatra or Java.

Unfortunately, the essence of what ATSB, CSIRO, and Griffin did was to correct an error that had had experts all over the world mumbling to themselves. But the correction was worse than the original error and smelled substantially like it was an excuse to keep searching an area that was statistically unlikely to hold anything as high tech as a Boeing 777-200ER. The way Griffin derived his new drift model, shown above, was by using drogue-on drifters that tap into subsurface currents. Those deep currents have very little to do with surface currents. Water movement in ocean basins is a bit like a seven-layer salad: what you get on top is not what you’re likely to get even one layer down.

I should say that I have exchanged emails with David a few times. Seems like a good guy. Can’t tell too much from a few emails. No reason to doubt his sincerity. But I have the distinct impression David and his work have been heavily influenced by the internal national politics of this search: possibly by the Abbott administration early on, but certainly now by the Turnbull administration. Mr. Turnbull seems determined to prove ATSB has been right about something all along, even if it has been mostly wrong about everything.

[Having said that, let me be clear that in my view, the horrifically misguided direction this search took from the very beginning was caused almost entirely by Inmarsat. I am not going to suggest it was intentional, but it certainly wasn’t corrected along the way. It is understandable, actually, that ATSB did not unilaterally correct Inmarsat’s botched math. Inmarsat has highly educated engineers; ATSB does not. It was an unfair match.]

I say “influenced” by “internal national politics” with a fair amount of confidence because a drift model prepared by NOAA’s Dr. Rick Lumpkin with the exact same dataset used by CSIRO’s Griffin produced a much different outcome.

And Lumpkin’s results were similar to yet another drift model that is at odds with the CSIRO / ATSB drift model. That one, shown below, was prepared by Germany’s Geomar.


Irrespective of “days elapsed”, the essence of the difference among the various models is this: NOAA and Geomar drift models show that debris hitting Reunion Island and the Mozambique Channel is likely to have originated south of Java Island to the north and east in a large very deep pool of water known as the Wharton Basin. In contrast, the CSIRO drift model suggests debris that reached Reunion Island and the Mozambique Channel had to have originated southwest of Perth: exactly where the Australia-led search is centered. The problem is, there is no empirical support for the CSIRO / ATSB assumption. Nothing drifts from the Perth area to the northwest, except wind. And the wind does not drive debris. That may seem counter-intuitive, but it is the way those complicated currents and forces work in real time.

There is about a 4,000 kilometer north-to-south difference between Wharton Basin and the Geelvinck Fracture area the search has been focused on for two long years. Supposedly, these enormously disparate locations are based on the very same data. Well, something is wrong.

If NOAA wasn’t in agreement with the original Geomar model, things would be messier than they are. But NOAA is the recognized expert on the block. It has been working in the Indian Ocean a long time and keeps survey ships in the area around the clock. It knows the currents, winds, and complexities of that water as well as anyone.

It is only necessary to examine real-time wind and current visualizations to realize that CSIRO’s drift model has problems. A relatively new entity uses the “nullschool dot net” domain and gets its data from NASA’s GEOS-5; the data is classified as experimental, but it tends to be very consistent with traditional visualizations. So let’s take a look at 60-second clip for the southern Indian Ocean. Perhaps this is what CSIRO used as its source:

 

It’s easy to see that the “current” shown in this high-tech model using data from March 25, 2016 moves from the search area southwest of Perth to the Madagascar and Mascarene Island areas. But wait! Something’s wrong with that. It has already been shown that drift does not move from the search area to the northwest. It can’t.

I used a little slight-of-hand with the clip above. It was important to show how nature works in that part of the world. What is depicted in the video clip above is wind current, not ocean water current. So let’s see what happens when we use ocean water current in another visualization.

Much different outcome. These two clips are both correct: one shows wind, the other water. It is what really happens out there. Wind currents frequently move from the southeast to the northwest in the southern Indian Ocean. But ocean currents behave much differently. Most debris flows from the area between Java and Exmouth, Australia (inflow from Timor Sea) to the west or northwest; debris south of Exmouth will slowly drift in circles, eventually being pulled into the circumpolar current that flows west-to-east south of the Australian continent. Debris in the mid-latitude areas between Java and Exmouth invariably drifts toward Madagascar and the Mascarene Islands. But debris in the search area cannot do that because it cannot escape endless eddies west of Australia caused by the Coriolis effect.

But, when debris turned up in the Mozambique Channel in February, and similar debris was then reported dating back to December 2015, CSIRO decided it had to rethink its position. That’s when it came up with this model that does exactly what Geomar did 9 months earlier. But neither CSIRO nor ATSB nor the Australian Prime Minister’s office acknowledged they suddenly realized they were searching the wrong part of the Indian Ocean. In fact, they still insist they are in the right location.


It is fairly clear at this point that Australia will do whatever Australia decides to do. It will not be reasoned with or cajoled into making changes that put the search where Australia doesn’t want it to be.

So, it doesn’t really matter what is or what is likely to be. The search will go on in a part of the Indian Ocean that cannot possibly be hiding a passenger plane.

Nevertheless, there is encouraging recent news. Malaysia has independently indicated that it intends to mount a search for surface debris through the Mozambique Channel and perhaps south of there along the South African coast. That may be the single most important decision since we learned the Reunion Island flaperon definitely came from MH370. So now we wait for Malaysia to lead the search in a more fruitful direction; perhaps with assistance from China.

 
Despite the Chillit comment,..

"..But I have the distinct impression David and his work have been heavily influenced by the internal national politics of this search: possibly by the Abbott administration early on, but certainly now by the Turnbull administration. Mr. Turnbull seems determined to prove ATSB has been right about something all along, even if it has been mostly wrong about everything..."


..I would argue this 'passing strange' disparity with popular opinion & empirical evidence is nothing new for the Infrastructure & Transport Ministry and it's agencies.
You only need look at the Civil Aviation Act regulatory reform program, where the bureaucracy has been lording the 'mystique of aviation safety' over governments (of both persuasions) and industry for 30+ years and at a cost of $300 + million (& counting) for little to no benefit, except possibly the decimation of a vital industry..
Perhaps post #56 from the NX thread will help explain:  

Clues:

confusion, befuddlement, bewilderment, puzzlement, perplexity, disconcertment, discomposure, daze, fog, muddle, NFI etc ........

The MOAS causes Polly discombobulation (MOAS: Mystique of Aviation Safety) - Ventus made us aware of the condition called Discombobulation - see HERE. 

Now although considered to be a largely Pilot affliction suffered in today's modern high-tech airliner cockpits, I believe this is also a Polly affliction when presented with bureaucratic spin & bulldust in the highly technical world of aviation safety regulation.

The following is an attempt to present an example of how this affliction manifests itself within the walls of APH & how M&M and Co use this to their advantage to maintain the status quo.  

 
It could be that the Turnbull government and it's agencies are privy to some vital cog of information that reinforces their belief that the ATSB SIO search priority area, is indeed correct; or it could be that they are passed the PNR, where to withdraw now is no longer an acceptable alternative - who knows? Still it will be fascinating to see how the government directs the narrative and extricates itself between now and the SIO search conclusion...
MTF...P2

[aussie500]

ATSB have super glued themselves to the 7th arc, because if they go any further south, they will basically be saying they do not believe the primary radar info Malaysia has given them. Australia and especially the ATSB do not have the backbone for it.

And on whales and the SIO, I am more curious about all the black and white ones that look suspiciously like orcas.

[P7_TOM]

That’s not an Orca, that is a Canberra black and white piranha; usually in pyjamas.  Aussie, you must watch Australia’s current affairs programmes – Piranha’s in Pyjamas – first episode due shortly – ‘Bling and bullshit’.

Yuk, yuk, Yak… …

[Peetwo]

Joe the sneak on MH370 debris - Finally a true tin-kicker verifies debris and not a Muppet in sight - yea hah! Oh and Griffin on why the ATSB is definitely in the right area...   (Joe in blue & Griffin in red):

Credit: AFP

This handout image taken by the Lotter family on March 9, 2016 and released on March 12, 2016 shows a debris found by the family off the coast of Mozambique in December 2015, that could be a part of the missing Malaysian flight MH370. Picture: Candace Lotter/ Handout/ AFP

By: Terry van der Walt

Durban key to MH370 mystery?
news/south-africa/kwazulu-natal / 
27 March 2016 at 12:16pm
By: Terry van der Walt

A top investigator looking into the disappearance of Malaysian flight MH370 has examined plane debris found by a KZN teenager and believes it “almost certainly” comes from the doomed plane that claimed the lives of all 239 people on board.

And it is highly likely that more pieces of debris, furnishings and personal items of passengers will drift ashore on our coast, further intensifying the call for beachgoers to be on the lookout.

Last week relatives of those on board the flight from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing launched a global appeal, Voice370, urging South Africans, fishing vessels and ships to help look for traces of the plane, in what has become the world’s largest aviation investigation.

On Saturday Joe Hattley, of the Australian Transport Safety Bureau, tasked with heading the international probe into MH370, told the Sunday Tribune that the piece recovered by Wartburg teenager Liam Lotter, as well as the piece found by Blaine Gibson, both on the Mozambican coast, had been examined by him in Australia last week.


He made a call for people to take a photograph in situ, exactly how they find any flotsam, and to then place it in a plastic bag and notify the South African Civil Aviation Authority (SACAA).


“The ‘flaperon’ piece found on the island of Reunion on July 29 last year is still with French authorities in Toulouse, and it has been confirmed to have come from the flight. I believe negotiations are under way between the Malaysian authorities and the SACAA to recover the latest piece found on Monday near Mosselbay by Neels Kruger,” said Hattley.

SACAA spokesman Kabelo Ledwaba confirmed this piece had been collected, and would be handed over to Malaysian authorities.


Hattley said that even with these four pieces, it was still impossible to refine the seabed search area, since so many factors could affect the movement of debris.


“It is still very difficult to work out where the plane went down. The drifting patterns of each piece are rather erratic, so the more data we get, including more debris finds, the more we will be able to narrow the search area, which is 120 000km,” he said.


He said Dr David Griffin, an oceanographic expert with the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation (CSIRO) of Australia, had provided useful insights to the crash investigators, using data provided by the Global Drifter Programme (GDP).

The GDP uses data from buoys regularly placed in the ocean over the past 30 years, which record surface temperatures and ocean currents.

This data tends to back up the seabed search area favoured by the Australian Transport Safety Bureau: a vast area of the Indian Ocean, along an arc the plane may have flown before it ran out of fuel. Investigators believe the plane deviated from its flight path, and turned southward near the island of Sumatra.

Griffin believes the flaperon piece found on Reunion was likely to have followed a similar path to that of drifters.


“This data shows that the flaperon probably entered water warmer than 18°C within a month or two of the crash, so barnacle nauplii may have started settling and growing on the flaperon for most of the voyage.


In his report (www.marine.csiro.au/~griffin/MH370/) he concludes: “The flaperon finding does, however, support the flight path analysis conclusion that the 39°S-32°S segment of the seventh arc is indeed the highest priority search region for MH370.”

Hattley said readers who had questions on anything they might find on our shores were welcome to e-mail him on atsbinfo@atsb.gov.au
Sunday Tribune

 
&..from DG:

MH370 - drift analysis

David Griffin





28 February 2016 update: 'No step' item found on a sandbank off Mozambique

An item which appears to be a wing fragment, with NO STEP printed on it, has been found by Blaine Gibson on a sandbank in the Mozambique Channel. The item has been handed in to authorities for investigation. If it can be identified as being from MH370, this brings to two the number of items potentially usable for oceanographic back-tracking.



Unlike the flaperon found on La Reunion, however, this item is not heavily encrusted with sea life, so it has probably spent a significant length of time either weathering in the sun and/or washing back and forth in the sand at this or some other location. The time at sea is therefore possibly much less than the 716 days that have elapsed since 14 March 2014, and the path taken may have been two or more distinct segments.


The tracks of Global Drifter Program drifters arriving in the Mozambique Channel (during 1985-2015) were overwhelmingly from the east, as shown at right. Two were close to the ATSB search area 700d prior to being in the Mozambique Channel, suggesting that the 'no step' item could very well have followed a similar path. But other drifters arrived near Mozambique from very different points along the 7th arc, showing that those, too, could also be regarded as possible origins of the item.


As with the flaperon, therefore, we conclude that while the location of this finding does not cast doubt on the ATSB's choice of search area (based on the Inmarsat handshakes), it can not provide particularly strong support for it either, because the trajectories of drifting items are so chaotic.


Trajectories of Global Drifter Program drifters

2 October 2015 update: Composite trajectories



Introduction


Few drifters complete journeys long enough to be directly relevant to the task at hand, especially since we are only interested in the subset of the drifters' trajectories that are before or after specific places, and with or without the drogue attached. We have therefore elected to create composite trajectories by adding shorter trajectories together head-to-tail. There are gaps in time and space involved, but we think that the benefits of the vastly greater number of composite trajectories more than compensates for the damage done by these gaps.


Method


Our method is simple: at the end of a partial trajectory, we do a search for all trajectories that meet distance-away, time-of-year and drogue on/off criteria. At the ends of all those trajectories, another set of searches is done. Drifter data density is quite uneven, potentially biasing the results, so we under- or over-sample the available trajectories appropriately (by time-shifting in the latter case). We have limited the number of partial trajectories to three or four for the results shown here, so they are either 538/3 or 538/4 days long. This results in a large number of trajectories. Using the trajectories back from La Reunion, we can estimate the possible location of the flaperon 508 days earlier (the time between 8 March 2014 and 29 July 2015) by mapping the density of points 508days (+/- 30days, center-weighted) back along all the trajectories.


One way to rationalise this approach is to consider that the best way to estimate where a drifter might go, having come to a certain point, is to look at the paths of other drifters that have passed near that point. This is, after all, what we were doing by looking at single-drifter trajectories, anyway. So now, as well as single-drifter trajectories, we have very many more three- or four-drifter trajectories. We have done this for a selection of La Reunion-backward and drogued and un-drogued trajectories

• .
  
  
  
  
  Results
  
  The image above shows our estimate of the likelihood function of where the flaperon was on 8 March 2014. The 7th arc is added for reference, with the 'high priority' search zone shown in bold. The sea-floor search zone is clearly within the zone of likely origins. The southern end of the search zone is close to the southern flank of the likelihood function, while the northern end of the search zone is towards the eastern flank, but at slightly higher likelihood than the southern half. But why is there a broad maximum NW of the arc, e.g. near 35S, 75E - 30S, 90E? Because this is where drifting buoys are evidently concentrated, moving at lower average velocity and therefore spending more time. We have verified that this is not an artefact of where drifters are deployed or lose their drogues. There is a (leaky) mechanism that concentrates them here in the centre of the gyre. Our back-tracking inevitably concludes that the most likely prior location of the flaperon was where it probably spent a lot of time, regardless of exactly where it entered the water nearby. This assumes that the flaperon drifted exactly like an undrogued drifter, which is probably not the case, being a very different shape. But it probably drifted much more like an undrogued drifter than a drogued one (in which case we would conclude that it entered the water much farther north).
  
  
  The end points of forward-tracks originating near the northern half of the high-priority seafloor search zone are distributed fairly evenly around La Reunion. A similar result is obtained for the southern half, reinforcing our earlier conclusion that if the plane had crashed where it is thought to have, that Reunion would be one of the most likely places where debris would be found.

MTF...P2

[Ziggy]

I'd be Very Interested in the Forensic Examination Report of All the possible MH370 Pieces Found.


Where are the Forensic reports regarding the pieces found so far.

Not only would they give all chemistry that technology can offer, but Physics too.

If the alleged debris was examined by not only shape, barnacle etc, (which is very Macro-Investigating. The chemistry make-up would assure without doubt.
Couple that with physics, and surely a clearer Micro-Investigative picture would emerge.

Trouble is...as we know. Me, personally. 
Asked the ATSB to Forensically test Life-Vests (3) that showed up in plastic red bag after being "discovered" five years later at the Norfolk,Island Police Storage. Date stamps from clearly removable ink. Looked in fine condition. Considering the duration in the water and stored in a Police Room. Not even asked for by the ATSB.
Can't trust any person within this crooked "business".
Money and Power to some, are worth more than any human life.
Rid them of Leadership.

Scum.

I'm sure, whilst the pieces are here, an independent review by a physicist, chemist and marine biologist, supervised by NO-ONE from Any Aviation Section be present. 
Not the ones we all know, we can not trust to reveal truth.
Couldn't even do it with survivors of their own first international aviation incident. Lies, lies, lies.

Look closer.
Map turn, with same hours/time for ?SIO.
Where do you end up?
Where are all these parts "suddenly" coming from with many drift patterns that just make no sense.

A Micro look as well as a map turn, might find other possibilities.
As all others seem exhausted along with a sinister Orgy of Politics.
Someone, probably quite a few, know the truth.
Either authorities covering their mistakes.
People too shit scared to tell, or just Evil Humans.

Who to Trust?
Who to Believe?
Who does Know?
Who knows who "they" are?
If you do, to choose?
Stand up and Speak the Truth?
Or hold onto the Shame till you Perish?
I Pity those who carry the Silent Curse.
It won't leave them, it will Torment them.
Till their corrupt, miserable end day
Who will Honour their Souls?
Who will Speak their Truth?
Who won't speak?
Who are the cowards?
Who will suffer their lives now and wither within?


Scum.
Just be fucking honest for the love of the Human Kind.
I mean. Fuuuuuuuck! 
People Know Information!

Who to Trust?
Who to Trust?

Question Everything with Persistence.

Where are the Forensic Reports on Chemical compounds, dating, sand type, etc? Physics: form, tact, estimated velocity of impact evident,, damage, internal & external, surely a piece of a wing, studied by a impact physicist specialist. Probably would give more answers than a great big friggin Ocean, with ships that are seemingly confused.

Look at the small.

Don't believe the bullshitters of the "bling, bling" media.

Question Everything.
Just find the Qualified, Independent, Right, honest people.

Independently.
Not Government or any affiliation with.

This is now just sick.

Confess. 
You ALL know who you are.
Or rot in Hell for keeping such filth of secret in your hearts.

 Ziggy

[Peetwo]

Ben & Marnie on latest debris find -

PT yesterday:

Looks like the first internal fragment of MH370 has been found on Mauritius

Ben Sandilands | Apr 02, 2016 1:12PM |


The relevant part of L’express Mauritius front page

Something that looks very much like an internal part of missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 has been found on a beach in Mauritius.

The brief report of the discovery in French can be found here.

It was found by Jean Dominique and Suzy Vitry on Wednesday, when Ms Vitry instinctively felt it was from a plane, and her husband a retired police officer immediately notified the local police.

The blurry photo on L’express Mauritius appears to show some marine fouling, possibly barnacles.

However the most striking aspect of the find was tweeted by Don Thompson, who has played a major role in the independent auditing of the search for MH370, with a comparison photo of the debris and a part of the bulkhead of a 777-200ER cabin similar to that flown by the Malaysia Airlines’ Boeing on 8 March 2014, when it vanished with 239 people onboard while flying from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing.

If Mr Thompson is right, this is the first internal piece of wreckage retrieved from MH370. Check out his tweet and comparison photo here.

(And in case you were wondering, L’express published on 31 March, not 1 April.)

&..Marnie via news.com.au yesterday:

Suspected fragment of MH370 business class cabin found on Rodrigues Island, east of Africa

April 2, 20168:24pm

Major find: This piece of suspected aircraft wreckage found on Rodrigues Island is believed to have come from the business class cabin of MH370. If proven it will be the first internal part found.

Marnie O'Neill [email=O’Neillnews.com.au@marnieoneill7] news.com.au [/email] [email=O’Neillnews.com.au@marnieoneill7]@marnieoneill7[/email]

A FRAGMENT believed to have come from inside the cabin of missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 has been found on an island in Mauritius, east of Africa.
MH370 Independent Group expert Don Thompson saw photographs of the part and said it appeared to match the bulkhead of an MAS Boeing 777 business class cabin.

The decorative finish on the piece, however, was not limited to that section of a B777 and could also have come from economy class, Mr Thompson told news.com.au.

Fellow IG member Mike Exner agreed with the assessment and the group this morning passed on the information to the Australian Tranport Safety Bureau (ATSB) who is understood to be excited by the find.

The object, if proven to have come from the missing plane, is hugely significant because it is the first possible internal fragment to have been found. The piece is also likely to shed more light on the manner in which the aircraft entered the water.


The bulkhead of the business class cabin of a Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 the Rodrigues part is suspected to have come from.


The suspected fragment of a bulkhead (see above photo for where it corresponds on a plane)

A couple holidaying on Rodrigues Island (a small volcanic island in the Indian Ocean, east of Mauritius) found the wreckage as they were walking along the beach at Var-Brûlé between Mourouk and Gravel, on Thursday.

Jean Dominique and Suzy Vitry, who live on nearby La Reunion where a flaperon confirmed to have come from the plane was found last July, immediately suspected they had found another piece of MH370, reports Reunion website Clicanoo.

They took the piece back to their hotel, the Mourouk Ebony, and gave it to management for safekeeping while a report was made to the River Coco Police Station.

It is not clear how big the fragment is but Clicanoo quoted a senior hotel staff member as having described it as “tens of centimetres”. A small cluster of barnacles are visible on the piece.

Photographs of the fragment have been posted to the hotel’s Facebook page.
The ATSB recently confirmed that two pieces of debris found in Mozambique last month, including Blaine Gibson’s “NO STEP” part and the outboard wing flap found by South African teenager Liam Lotter, were “highly likely” to have come from MH370.

EIGHT VITAL MH370 QUESTIONS THAT NEED ANSWERS
ARE YOU INADVERTENTLY HOARDING A PIECE OF MH370 DEBRIS?

The Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 vanished on March 8 2014 en route from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing with 239 people on board.


Another fragment, dubbed the “Rolls Royce piece”, found in South Africa’s Western Cape province, is thought to have come from the inlet cowling of the aircraft’s engine.


The “Rolls Royce” piece.Source:Twitter


American adventurer and MH370 sleuth Blaine Gibson with his ‘NO STEP’ piece, which formed part of the horizontal stabiliser of a Boeing 777. Picture: Blaine A GibsonSource:Supplied


South African teenager Liam Lotter’s piece, which he found while holidaying with family in MozambiqueSource:AFP

 

[aussie500]

A better comparison photo for the bit of debris from the cabin.

Pattern



But that bulkhead is not where the bit of debris came from, it is just the easiest to see the silver pattern on. The hinge, the markings showing where an almost black skirting had been attached on the flat edge, and the curve on another edge corresponding to the outside curve of the fuselage, as well as that little see through square that would have been at floor level. It is most likely from under one of two right side drop down tables. Probably the one closest to the wing, that is on the outside wall of the toilets.

And the same image with the debris photoshopped in to where I think it came from and a few looks at the table in the down position.



And it is about time those Malaysians provided some decent photo's of their lost plane or an identical plane, so people looking for debris would have some idea what to look for. ATSB should have done that first off, then maybe they would have known themselves what debris would look like.

[Peetwo]

A better comparison photo for the bit of debris from the cabin.

Pattern



But that bulkhead is not where the bit of debris came from, it is just the easiest to see the silver pattern on. The hinge, the markings showing where an almost black skirting had been attached on the flat edge, and the curve on another edge corresponding to the outside curve of the fuselage, as well as that little see through square that would have been at floor level. It is most likely from under one of two right side drop down tables. Probably the one closest to the wing, that is on the outside wall of the toilets.

And the same image with the debris photoshopped in to where I think it came from and a few looks at the table in the down position.



And it is about time those Malaysians provided some decent photo's of their lost plane or an identical plane, so people looking for debris would have some idea what to look for. ATSB should have done that first off, then maybe they would have known themselves what debris would look like.

Well done Aussie, top sleuthing...

Via PT overnight:

Social media sleuth finds cabin fit for latest MH370 find on Rodrigues Island

Ben Sandilands | Apr 04, 2016 8:01PM |

Annette’s discovery photo on Twitter

A social media sleuth on twitter named Annette@aussie500 appears to have found where the piece of MH370 found on Rodrigues Island, Mauritius, on 30 March, fits into a bulkhead at the front of the second part of its business class cabin.

In the initial post we said Her find can be seen here, on a tweet from pilot Edward Baker @Edward_767, although it hasn’t been established if the image shown has been worked on by him or is direct from Annette as the Twitter search function is at times capricious.

Since then Annette has provided her original tweet and that is now on the top of this report. Quite why Twitter trails can be a pain to follow is another topic for elsewhere.

This is a significant find, providing a convincing answer to the earlier question as to exactly where it would have been in the cabin of the Malaysia Airlines 777-200ER that was lost on 8 March 2014 on its way from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing.

It’s a grim answer too. The jet is known to have flown south to oblivion in the south Indian Ocean hitting the sea some seven hours 39 minutes after it had taken off and its fuel had been exhausted.

The image shows where a sudden blast of water tore through the cabin destroying the bulkhead in a fraction of a second.

The sea bed location of the major heavy sections of MH370, the stronger parts of the wing, the undercarriage, the engine cores, remains undiscovered despite a brief initial aerial search and an almost 21 months long search using sonar scanning towfish of a priority zone of 120,000 square kilometers.

That search will end in the middle of the year, with no extension into new sea floor areas in the absence of strong new leads.

The recent discoveries of pieces of washed up debris from MH370 may yet provide reasons to continue, assuming the sunk wreckage isn’t found beforehand.

MTF...P2