[Ziggy]

"Really.
I mean...Effin Really?

How has the CC of the ATSB maintained that Position?
And others in the Circle?

I would be assuming that more work went into the legal, collusive embarrassment, rather than exceptional safety analysis?

We all know what has happened in the past few years.

A Petition needs to Start to extinguish this "Leaders'" contract.
See a tart melts when their beloved Media discover truths and turn.

Ouch 

"DP- as a consequence of the arrogance, 
Choose a New Leader with Consult, not one that Insults"

Ziggy 

[Gobbledock]

Zig said;

How has the CC of the ATSB maintained that Position?
And others in the Circle?

Zig, a question we have pondered over many many times, and we have not been able to identify a logical root cause for his continued role at the top of the ATSB.
I believe somebody must have photos of him, Foley, Sangers, Jules Verne and the other cough cough Commissioners dressed in lederhosen, covered in baby oil and cuddling a goat because for the life of me I cannot understand how else such an embarrassment can be allowed to represent our nation in such a role!!!

[Peetwo]

Beaker is indeed out to make a name for himself as a talented Investigative guru!! How much media can one prostitute ones self for?? However I hate to tell him but the Robbo fuel tank issue is old news. The Widowmaker has incinerated too many fellow pilots already, for a number of years, and the fix has been very slow due to 'international political' agendas. And lets not forget that Fort Fumble had to be dragged by the cuff yelling and screaming until they received adverse media attention and were forced to act. Sadly it was too late for some of our Pilots who died unnecessarily due to the piece of shit tank design, and then the cost of replacing the tanks with new bladders fell onto the operator FFS! Every chopper pilot and their first year engineering apprentice know about the issue, so as much as Beaker may have 'proactively petitioned EASA and the FAA to mandate changes', they will do as they please when they please, and won't be listening the facially furry mi mi mi-er from down under! But nice try Beaker, mixing with the big kids, but be careful you don't get sand kicked in your face again  

 
In case you needed anymore proof that the whole point of Dolan being the front man in the Bulli Tops media release, is purely a disgusting PR sham to grab the limelight away from recent bad press, here it is...FFS :

Tweet from ATSB this AM:

@atsbinfo warning on helicopter fuel tanks may lead to worldwide aviation safety changes http://www.illawarramercury.com.au/story/3126661/

  
And this was the article from the Illawarra Mercury (where the last sentence (in bold) will be conveniently overlooked by Beaker & the ATSB):

Bulli Tops helicopter crash sparks global warning

By MICHELLE WEBSTER
June 4, 2015, 9 p.m.

A horrific helicopter crash at Bulli Tops which claimed the lives of four former CSIRO scientists in March, 2013, may lead to worldwide aviation safety changes.


Dr Don Price, Gerald Haddad, Dr John Dunlop and Dr Tony Farmer died when the Robinson R44 helicopter they were travelling in struck a tree during landing before hitting the ground and exploding in flames.

The accident led Australia's Civil Aviation Safety Authority to order all R44 operators to replace the model's rigid all-aluminium fuel tank, which was found to increase the likelihood of post-crash fire, with a bladder-style tank.

On Thursday, the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) released its final report into the Bulli Tops incident, calling on US and European regulators to follow Australia's lead and ensure all R44s are fitted with the crash-resistant fuel systems.

ATSB chief commissioner Martin Dolan said the bladder-style tanks reduced the risk of post-impact fire and he was concerned helicopters not fitted with the newer tanks could still be in the skies.

"We believe the US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) can help improve the safety of many helicopter pilots and their passengers," he said.

"We have issued safety recommendations to the FAA and EASA. We ask them to take action to increase the number of crash-resistant fuel systems fitted to existing and newly manufactured helicopters."

Mr Dolan said the ATSB expected to hear from the US and European regulators by early September.

On March 21, 2013, the four retired CSIRO scientists flew out of Bankstown Airport on a helicopter joy flight before landing for lunch at Panorama House just after midday.

Witnesses reported seeing the chopper land and then rapidly take off again, yawing to the right and striking a number of tree branches with the main rotor blade.

Horrified onlookers watched helplessly as the aircraft pitched towards the ground, hitting nose-first and rolling onto its right side.

One witness who rushed in to help noticed a large amount of fuel pouring from underneath the helicopter and within moments a fire had started on the grass under the rotor mast and cabin area, quickly engulfing the aircraft.

A number of people tried desperately to extinguish the fire but it was too intense.

The incident was among a string of tragic accidents where R44 choppers had crashed. An investigation of a starkly similar incident at Jaspers Brush in 2012 found the two victims might have survived if the chopper's all-aluminum fuel tank had been replaced with a different model.

Australian film producer Andrew Wight and American filmmaker Mike deGruy were heading to Jervis Bay to shoot footage when Wight's door opened shortly after lift-off.

As he reached to close it, the helicopter moved into an abrupt nose-up pitch, forcing the chopper to hit the ground where it burst into flames.

Just one month after the Bulli Tops tragedy, Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) delivered an ultimatum to Australian R44 operators to replace the chopper's aluminium fuel tanks with crash-resistant bladder tanks.

Within 12 months all 484 R44s operating in Australia had made the switch.

California-based Robinson Helicopter Company issued a service bulletin to R44 operators in December, 2010, telling them to swap to flexible fuel tanks.

Some on here will remember that at Budget Estimates in May 2013 (i.e. 2 months after the tragic Bulli tops accident), the matter of the R44 post impact fire accidents were the subject of Senate questioning. Here is a copy of a post of mine off the UP from that time:

Yep the list is growing and the stench is rising!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You can add the Cousin's to that list...remember this from sub16:

“We have been to Martin Dolan Chief Commissioner ATSB, Albanese, John McCormick, Local Member John Castrilli - who did write a letter to CASA on our behalf but that was it! John McCormick insulted us in his response stating that "CASA is unaware of any other accidents involving this company’s aircraft". Oh My God how insulting to our intelligence. So in their eyes Kenny's Mob have never been involved in other incident!


How many fatalities does a Company need to have to be anything recorded as an ACCIDENT! At the inquest the CEO of Heliworks was questioned about his Statutory Declaration and had he completed - he disclosed he did not complete it and the Company had told him what to write! How could that be admissable in a court of law?

They were aware that this cowboy operation existed out at the Bungles but once again NO ONE would do a thing to stop them...............
It took 2 yrs 7 mths after the accident for the inquest to be held and we did not get the final report until a further 6 months!! Over 3 years!!”

Then

“Well we had our inquest which was an absolute joke and embarrassment for the fact that so many documents were not produced / lost / created etc and no one did a thing about it. Our Coroner Ms Fricker left a lot to be desired and the fact that in the 2 years 7 months not one person in the court room excluding us had even visited the accident site or gone out to witness just what happens out there. We came away just blown
away with the fact that so many things were dismissed/ allowed/undisclosed and were allowed to be.

That smell of money I think well and truly came into play!!!
I personally lost all respect for our government representatives, law, safety authorities after sitting in that court room for 5 days and listened to excuses on their behalf...instead of reasons to rectify and was horrified after the evidence given that it was declared and accident.

As I said in court this was an Accident waiting to happen and will occur again!!The coroner in her report even noted the number of helicopter accidents just since the inquest - approx 4 month....and not one recommendation was handed down. She used the words like Breached and Failed to comply in her report and yet not one
recommendation.”

Carolyn Cousins. (mother of Jessica Cousins) Slingair Robinson 44 Bungle Bungles 14

September 2008 4 fatalities

Although according to Beaker this accident was a high-energy impact:

Mr Dolan: There had been a number of post-crash fires associated with R44 helicopters. In the vast majority of those cases they represented high-energy impacts, which is to say accidents that were unlikely to have been survivable and which would have led to a post-crash fire in almost any helicopter.

Senator XENOPHON: So you are saying that the retrofitting would not have made any difference?

Mr Dolan: That would be our general assessment.

Senator XENOPHON: Take it on notice, because I have a few other matters to raise. You are saying that, from a causation point of view, even retrofitting the helicopters with that protective bladder, it still would have been a fatal accident?

Mr Dolan: On the facts that were available to us. We are not aware of any previous to Cessnock. I do not think we are aware of any of the low-energy collisions leading to that sort of thing. There were, as you say, a number of high-energy collisions that would have led to a ruptured fuel tank in any helicopter and therefore a great likelihood of a post-crash fire. Those are the sorts of accidents that generally are not survivable.

But on the evidence in the bureau report it would appear that there was a strong possibility the pilot at least survived the crash impact only to be overcome by the post impact fire, from the report:

Medical and pathological information
The post-mortem examinations for all occupants of the helicopter described varying degrees of injuries consistent with the high vertical velocity impact. All sustained extensive thermal injury.

The pilot’s post-mortem report indicated that he was found ‘...a slight distance from the damaged aircraft.’

You will notice that the post-mortem didn't appear to explore how the victims died i.e. did they succumb to their impact injuries or the 'extensive thermal injuries'. Nor was IMO the post-survivability issues properly explored by the ATSB. It was almost as if the ATSB accept that if a chopper comes (in particular a Robbo) down hard it will inevitably burn!

Yes 004 it will be interesting to watch and I bet there will be a couple of interested Senators tuned in as well..given the QONs outstanding on the subject of post-impact fires and R44s

Here's the links for the high energy post-impact fire fatalities to which Senator X refers:
http://www.atsb.gov.au/media/1533519/ao2008062.pdf

http://www.atsb.gov.au/media/1361537/aai...79_001.pdf

http://www.atsb.gov.au/media/24556/aair2...46_001.pdf

And here is a link for the report from the Jaspers Brush tragedy - AO-2012-021 - that included these two safety issues:

Fitment of rubber, bladder-type fuel tanks to R44 helicopters

A significant number of R44 helicopters, including VH-COK, were not fitted with bladder-type fuel tanks and the other modifications detailed in the manufacturer's Service Bulletin, SB-78 to improve resistance to post?impact fuel leaks and fire.

Issue number:
AO-2012-021-SI-01
Who it affects:
All owners and operators of R44 helicopters
Status:
Adequately addressed

---

 
R44 helicopter all-aluminium fuel tanks
The Australian Transport Safety Bureau encourages all operators and owners of R44 helicopters that are fitted with all-aluminium fuel tanks to note the circumstances of this accident as detailed in this preliminary report. It is suggested that those operators and owners actively consider replacing these tanks with bladder-type fuel tanks as detailed in the manufacturer's Service Bulletin (SB) 78A as soon as possible.

In addition, the ATSB highlights the existence and content of SB 82 that aims to reduce the chance of the rotor brake switch as a possible ignition source in the event of a fuel leak.

Issue number:
AO-2012-021-SAN-001
Who it affects:
Owners and operators of R44 helicopters
Status:
Partially addressed

And in ICAO Annex 13 Ch 6 under Safety  Recommendations  it is stated...


"..6.8 At any stage of the investigation of an accident or incident, the accident or incident investigation authority of the State conducting the investigation shall recommend to the appropriate authorities, including those in other States, any preventive action that it considers necessary to be taken promptly to enhance aviation safety.



6.9 A State conducting investigations of accidents or incidents shall address, when appropriate, any safety recommendations arising out of its investigations to the accident investigation authorities of other State(s) concerned and, when ICAO documents are involved, to ICAO..."


So what is the ATSB excuse for sitting on these SRs until now (over two years after the fact)?? No this is just another cynical attempt to gain credibility where none is due..FFS get rid of the Muppet

P2  

 

[Peetwo]

In case you needed anymore proof that the whole point of Dolan being the front man in the Bulli Tops media release, is purely a disgusting PR sham to grab the limelight away from recent bad press, here it is...FFS :

Tweet from ATSB this AM:

@atsbinfo warning on helicopter fuel tanks may lead to worldwide aviation safety changes http://www.illawarramercury.com.au/story/3126661/

  
In ICAO Annex 13 Ch 6 under Safety  Recommendations  it is stated...

"..6.8 At any stage of the investigation of an accident or incident, the accident or incident investigation authority of the State conducting the investigation shall recommend to the appropriate authorities, including those in other States, any preventive action that it considers necessary to be taken promptly to enhance aviation safety.

6.9 A State conducting investigations of accidents or incidents shall address, when appropriate, any safety recommendations arising out of its investigations to the accident investigation authorities of other State(s) concerned and, when ICAO documents are involved, to ICAO..."

So what is the ATSB excuse for sitting on these SRs until now (over two years after the fact)?? No this is just another cynical attempt to gain credibility where none is due..FFS get rid of the Muppet  

 
ATSB - Revenge of the Muppets.

Further to this off the ATSB twitter account today, it would appear that Dolan is still trying to make mileage out of this... ‏

@atsbinfo 8h8 hours ago


ATSB calls on FAA and EASA to act over R44 bladder tanks http://helihub.com/?p=111880

Also today the miniscule had a presser on the reappointment of a Commissioner that did not mention Beaker once... :

Reappointment to the Australian Transport Safety Bureau

Media Release
WT181/2015
23 June 2015

The Australian Government has reappointed Mr Noel Hart as a Commissioner with the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB).

Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Infrastructure and Regional Development Warren Truss announced the two-year extension of Mr Hart's term today, effective from 1 July 2015.

“Mr Hart's extensive maritime and resource industry operations experience, along with his previous work on the Commission, will be a valuable asset to the Commission as it continues its investigative work into the future,” Mr Truss said.

“Mr Hart's maritime experience will continue to ensure that the Commission has expertise in each of the transport modes covered by the ATSB, complementing the aviation and rail experience of the other two part-time Commissioners.

“I will be looking to the Commission to provide strong leadership to the ATSB as Australia's national safety investigator across the aviation, maritime and rail sectors.”

More information on ATSB's commissioners can be found here:
atsb.gov.au/about_atsb/commissioners.aspx

Although Beaker made sure that he wasn't totally left out of the limelight:

@atsbinfo 4h4 hours ago

The Chief Commissioner of the ATSB, Mr Martin Dolan welcomes the re-appointment of Mr Noel Hart as a Commissioner. http://www.atsb.gov.au/newsroom/news-items/2015/noel-hart-re-appointed-as-commissioner.aspx#.VYjxQ-7m0EM.twitter …
 

Noel Hart re-appointed as Commissioner


The Chief Commissioner of the Australian Transport Safety Bureau, Mr Martin Dolan has welcomed the re-appointment of Mr Noel Hart as a Commissioner with the ATSB.

Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Infrastructure and Regional Development Warren Truss announced the two-year extension of Mr Hart's term today, effective from 1 July 2015. Mr Hart was first appointed as a Commissioner in July 2009.

Mr Dolan said, ‘Mr Hart brings to the Commission a lifetime of experience in maritime industry experience as a qualified and experienced Master Mariner with an MBA.

‘I look forward to continuing the Commission’s important work with Noel whose maritime knowledge complements the aviation and rail experience of the other Commissioners.
Read Deputy Prime Minister Truss’ statement.

More information on ATSB's commissioners can be found here.
 


Last update 23 June 2015
 

Errr....no comment..

Aunty Pru can you please bring me a bucket..

MTF..P2  

[Gobbledock]

One word - VOMIT

[P7_TOM]

Eloquent, succinct and eminently adequate.

[Peetwo]

 The Hollow Man...err..Muppet 

Dear miniscule..it has come to my attention that the Chief Muppet, of our once esteemed aviation safety watchdog, is taking the Mickey Bliss on your watch, see here - Overdue & Obfuscated #post14  - or here...

Dear Dreary,

I so dearly would have liked to have passed comment on your latest blog post but alas for some passing strange reason my IP address is red flagged from your site?? Maybe it is a glitch, or maybe not. However as I know that you have a minion monitoring Aunty Pru, I therefore surmise there is a reasonable probability that you will receive my comment in due course. So here goes, with a query that has recently been troubling me... Confused  

Maybe I have missed something but back on 24 April, in an article by Steve Creedy in the Oz (CASA must consider cost of regulation: Warren Truss), your ultimate boss (i.e. the miniscule) told Steve C...

"..Mr Truss told The Australian the CASA letter and a similar statement of expectations sent to the Australian Transport Safety Bureau fulfilled a promise arising from the Forsyth Review.."

...yet when I went to view your boss's SOE on the (unlike the TSBC website.. Wink ) convoluted, non-user friendly ATSB website, the relevant page was (& still is) yet to be updated:
 
So Dreary my query is..where is the miniscule's new SOE addressed to your agency, cause buggered if I can find it, or in the words of former member of Parliament Pauline Hansen...

"Please explain??" Huh

 
Benefit of the doubt & all that, I thought maybe the CM is working on his 'Statement of Intent'  & will make your much anticipated SOE publicly available at the same time (i.e. on the 'technically correct' day, 01 July 2015). Sadly on reviewing the applicable page this does not seem to be the case:

Minister's expectations


Minister's Statement of Expectations

• Statement of Expectations
  A brief overview and Minister's Expectations and the ATSB's Statement of Intent.
  

 
Statement of Intent

• Statement of Intent
  This Statement of Intent describes the ATSB's functions and approach and outlines priorities which will form the basis for the ATSB's business and resource allocations. Those priorities and related key business outputs are consistent with the Minister's expectations and broader Government policy in the area of transport safety.
  

Last update 31 January 2014

   
Why you never took the chance to dismiss the CM back when you first took over the reins is beyond my politically naïve comprehension, God knows you had (& still have) much evidence of incompetence & complicity in the PelAir cover-up scandal. However to let this individual get away with thumbing his nose at your authority once again, would quite frankly be the ultimate insult to your long career in public servitude.

----Yours P2  

[Peetwo]

 The Hollow Man...err..Muppet 

Dear miniscule..it has come to my attention that the Chief Muppet, of our once esteemed aviation safety watchdog, is taking the Mickey Bliss on your watch, see here - Overdue & Obfuscated #post14  - or here...

Dear Dreary,

I so dearly would have liked to have passed comment on your latest blog post but alas for some passing strange reason my IP address is red flagged from your site?? Maybe it is a glitch, or maybe not. However as I know that you have a minion monitoring Aunty Pru, I therefore surmise there is a reasonable probability that you will receive my comment in due course. So here goes, with a query that has recently been troubling me... Confused  

Maybe I have missed something but back on 24 April, in an article by Steve Creedy in the Oz (CASA must consider cost of regulation: Warren Truss), your ultimate boss (i.e. the miniscule) told Steve C...

"..Mr Truss told The Australian the CASA letter and a similar statement of expectations sent to the Australian Transport Safety Bureau fulfilled a promise arising from the Forsyth Review.."

...yet when I went to view your boss's SOE on the (unlike the TSBC website.. Wink ) convoluted, non-user friendly ATSB website, the relevant page was (& still is) yet to be updated:
 
So Dreary my query is..where is the miniscule's new SOE addressed to your agency, cause buggered if I can find it, or in the words of former member of Parliament Pauline Hansen...

"Please explain??" Huh

 
Benefit of the doubt & all that, I thought maybe the CM is working on his 'Statement of Intent'  & will make your much anticipated SOE publicly available at the same time (i.e. on the 'technically correct' day, 01 July 2015). Sadly on reviewing the applicable page this does not seem to be the case:

Minister's expectations


Minister's Statement of Expectations

• Statement of Expectations
  A brief overview and Minister's Expectations and the ATSB's Statement of Intent.
  

 
Statement of Intent

• Statement of Intent
  This Statement of Intent describes the ATSB's functions and approach and outlines priorities which will form the basis for the ATSB's business and resource allocations. Those priorities and related key business outputs are consistent with the Minister's expectations and broader Government policy in the area of transport safety.
  

Last update 31 January 2014

   
Why you never took the chance to dismiss the CM back when you first took over the reins is beyond my politically naïve comprehension, God knows you had (& still have) much evidence of incompetence & complicity in the PelAir cover-up scandal. However to let this individual get away with thumbing his nose at your authority once again, would quite frankly be the ultimate insult to your long career in public servitude.

----Yours P2  

Well here we are more than a week later & the ATSB is still yet to publish the miniscule's SOE and/or their statement of intent?? Oh well I guess Beaker is not on his own in thumbing his nose at the miniscule & government wishes/policies, take a look at Skid-Mark's latest remarks in regards the CVDPA; see here - http://auntypru.com/forum/-CASA-meets-th...96#pid1296

Again for the record - "WAKE UP MINISCULE"...FCOL    

Moving on I note the ATSB have been receiving some reasonable Press in recent days, from the other Aunty:

Jandakot Airport in Perth under investigation for high number of near-collisions

By Jacob Kagi
Posted Tue at 7:21amTue 7 Jul 2015, 7:21am

Photo: The ATSB says between 2013 and 2015 the near-collision rate at Jandakot Airport was three times higher than other similar airports.

A "disproportionate" rate of aircraft near-collisions at Jandakot Airport in Perth, at least three times higher than at other similar facilities, is being investigated.

The Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) said it had identified Jandakot, a general aviation facility in Perth's south, as having a much higher near-collision rate than other similar airports since 2013.

As a result, the ATSB said it had launched an investigation to "identify the factors that increase the collision risk to aircraft operating at Jandakot Airport".

As part of that investigation, the ATSB said it would examine several of the most recent incidents for common features and review the characteristics of the facility compared to other similar airports.

Air traffic controllers and pilots involved in recent incidents at the airport will be interviewed, while other regular users will also be spoken to by the ATSB.

The investigation, which was launched late last month, is expected to be completed by February.

"Between 2013 and 2015 Jandakot Airport had a near-collision rate that was at least three times higher than other similar metropolitan Class D airports across Australia," the ATSB said in a statement on its website.

In 2014, Jandakot was the second busiest airport in Australia by total aircraft movements with more than 250,000.

The only facility with more aircraft movements was Sydney, which had more than 330,000.

Jandakot is used as a base by the Royal Flying Doctor Service and numerous other Government agencies.

It is also used extensively by recreational pilots and other light aircraft.

 
And also here on PM:

Safety authorities launch investigation into near misses at Perth's Jandakot Airport

Lucy Martin reported this story on Tuesday, July 7, 2015 18:30:00
Listen to MP3 of this story ( minutes)
| MP3 download

MARK COLVIN: Why is there a higher than usual rate of near misses at Perth's Jandakot Airport?

The Australian Transport Safety Bureau says Jandakot has three times as many near-collisions as other facilities with similar traffic.

Jandakot is a general aviation airport, meaning mostly smaller planes, not airliners, and some pilots have started worrying about the risks.

Now the safety authorities are going to inquire into whether language barriers between air traffic controllers and some trainee pilots could be a factor.

Lucy Martin reports.

LUCY MARTIN: With more than 250,000 aircraft movements last year, Perth's Jandakot airport is the second busiest in Australia.

There's been 20 near misses at the airport in the last 2.5 years, a rate three times higher than similar-sized airports in the eastern states.

Stuart Godley is from the Australian Transport Safety Bureau.

STUART GODLEY: What we're finding is a lot of these incidents are actually involving at least one aircraft that are from a flying school. And most of their traffic do actually involve flying schools. Although you've got an instructor on board most of the time, you are dealing with students who are fairly new to flying.

LUCY MARTIN: Tim Cooper has held his private pilot license for nine years.

He told ABC local radio he's not comfortable using Jandakot airport.

TIM COOPER: I'm always very nervous in flying in Jandakot airspace. In fact we've upgraded our plane software to include a thing called 'traffic'. The software picks up other aircraft as long as they have a transponder. I no longer feel safe without it.

LUCY MARTIN: Mr Cooper says Jandakot is an incredibly busy facility that shares limited airspace with the nearby Perth airport.

The airport also plays host to flying schools for China Southern and Singapore Airlines, as well as recreational pilots.

Mr Cooper believes that could be contributing to the rate of near misses.

TIM COOPER: These trainee pilots, and English is not their first language, so there may be some misinterpretation of instructions from tower. It kind of is the perfect storm. It's only by education from the authorities, education seminars and investigating incidents that safety is improved.

LUCY MARTIN: Former pilot Alan says he stopped flying at Jandakot after a near miss in 2007.

ALAN: I had a student pilot took off behind me in a faster plane and decided to climb over the top of me in the circuit. The only thing that saved my life when I was still climbing was the control tower who called to the other aircraft to brake right.

He didn't understand the call. Fortunately the instructor, the Royal Aero Club instructor with me, took over and we broke left and lined up behind the other idiot. I think some people are letting their students go solo too soon.

LUCY MARTIN: The ATSB says it has heard some anecdotal evidence about why Jandakot might be recording more near misses than other general aviation airports.

Its investigation will look into those suggestions.

Trevor Jones is the chief flying instructor at Western Australia's Royal Aero Club.

TREVOR JONES: I think it's a good thing, you know. It's just getting out there in the open, gives us an opportunity to let them know what we think it might be. We want safety in the air, and if they give us some recommendations, or if we can come up with our own ideas for improving safety then we absolutely look at that all the time.

MARK COLVIN: Trevor Jones from the WA Royal Aero Club ending Lucy Martin's report.

So for once perhaps a good initiative & complimentary use of resources by the ATSB?? However I do question why this is only now being brought to public attention when the investigation was initiated over two weeks ago - AI-2015-063. And was not subject to any media releases etc. at that time, nor is the issue listed in the ATSB Safety Watch page as a serious safety issue concern.

I am also somewhat sceptical about what it is the ATSB think they will discover & what possible recommendations (if any) will come out in the final report? Maybe they may recommend that another airport be built as Jandakot has reached capacity; or that Jandakot should revert to the old GAAP procedures...

Anyway at least Beaker is nowhere to be seen this time...P2         

[Gobbledock]

Those are some fairly disturbing figures out of Jandy.
As much as I detest mainstream media, below is a link to yesterday's bingle between an F-16 and Cessna in the USA;

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/repo...ne-n388046

So don't be fooled Miniscule, Beaker and Skid-Mark, these things DO happen!

[Peetwo]

Those are some fairly disturbing figures out of Jandy.
As much as I detest mainstream media, below is a link to yesterday's bingle between an F-16 and Cessna in the USA;

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/repo...ne-n388046

So don't be fooled Miniscule, Beaker and Skid-Mark, these things DO happen!

Good catch Gobbles, here is another take on the same story courtesy of AvWeb:

Two Dead In F-16-Cessna Collision
(Updated)

By AVweb Staff | July 7, 2015




A father and son aboard a Cessna 150 were killed when their aircraft was reportedly "broadsided" by an Air Force F-16 over Moncks Corner, South Carolina, on Tuesday. The F-16 pilot, Maj. Aaron Johnson, ejected and was not hurt. The jet crashed in a wooded area and nobody on the ground was hurt. The NTSB is examining both crash sites and on Wednesday identified Joseph Johnson, 30, as the pilot of the Cessna, and his father Michael Johnson, 68, as his passenger. Crews were still searching Wednesday for Joseph Johnson's body, according to an Associated Press report. The fighter was based at Shaw AFB in Sumter. The jet was on a training mission practicing instrument approaches to Charleston International Airport, which shares the field with Charleston Air Force Base.

Investigator Dennis Diaz told The AP that the F-16 "was able to fly in some fashion for a period of time after the accident, which is why we have an aircraft site that’s separated by about 10 miles.” The fighter was under "positive control" by air traffic control Col. Stephen Jost, commander of the 20th Fighter Squadron told a news conference. The Cessna had just taken off from Berkely County Airport, a non towered airport about 17 miles northwest of Charleston, The Cessna was headed for Myrtle Beach and the collision occurred between 2,000 and 3,000 feet. Jost said the 20,000-pound F-16 would have been going between 230 and 290 mph at the time.

The Cessna was smashed to small pieces by the impact and debris rained down over an eight mile area  about 20 miles northwest of Charleston. There were no reports of injury or damage on the ground. Weather was overcast but Jost told a news conference he didn't believe weather was a factor. The F-16 left a crater and smashed trees in the woods surrounding the historic Lewisfield Plantation. Workers at the plantation found the pilot and took him to ambulance personnel who drove him to the base, where he was being kept for observation.

   
Moving on and I note another 'good news' story coming out of the ATSB, that again does not include the Grandstanding Beaker...hurrah to that!

Media release

Title

Report to educate aerial agriculture and firefighting pilots
 
Date: 10 July 2015
As aerial agriculture pilots prepare for an early spring start to their busiest time of year, a new ATSB report highlights past aviation safety events in the industry.

ATSB's Manager Reporting and Analysis, Dr Stuart Godley said, 'ATSB has been working closely with the Aerial Agricultural Association of Australia (AAAA) to strengthen their long-standing education and training program by using reported incidents and ATSB investigations to identify key learning opportunities for pilots.

'The statistics clearly identify a long term trend in improving safety in the sector, but both ATSB and AAAA remain committed to improving the safety record even further.

'These statistics should serve as a reminder of the risks these pilots will face during the season that are not present in most other types of flying. Hazards include low-level flying with high workloads and numerous obstacles, in particular powerlines and uneven terrain.

'The good news is that, while these risks are always present, they are generally manageable', said Dr Godley.

The report focuses on aerial application accidents between May 2014 and April 2015 to coincide with the agriculture season in most parts of Australia.

Dr Godley said, 'Wirestrike was the most prevalent type of occurrence with more than half of the total accidents and serious incidents involving a wirestrike'.

Mr Phil Hurst, CEO of the AAAA said, 'We approached ATSB with the idea of producing an annual statement of safety trends in the industry to support aerial application pilots in their ongoing professional development through AAAA’s comprehensive ‘Professional Pilot Program’ and training courses.
 
'This report is a very useful addition to the tools available to professional low level pilots and AAAA thanks ATSB for their practical response in improving access to the valuable safety data they hold.'

There were 13 accidents with one resulting in fatal injury in the preceding 12 months. In total, there were 24 reported accidents and incidents involving aerial agriculture and firefighting operations.

Read the report: Aerial application safety: 2014 to 2015 year in review

Media contact: contact ATSB on 1800 020 616 or Phil Hurst (AAAA) on 0427 622 430

Dr Godley again (see ABC PM transcript above), he seems to be making regular media appearances for the ATSB lately. He also (surprisingly) featured at last Estimates and IMO he made an excellent account of himself as well. See Kharon's post today here - Strange, but hardly surprising - or on the tail end of this Estimates clip:

Accolades to Stuart Godley (on behalf of the ATSB) & Phil Hurst (representing the AAAA) for an excellent proactive initiative - & no muppets or CASA in sight...

MTF...P2    

[Kharon]

Gold stars and no Muppet = Bliss.

P2 – “Accolades to Stuart Godley (on behalf of the ATSB) & Phil Hurst (representing the AAAA) for an excellent proactive initiative - & no muppets or CASA in sight.”

I think we must go a couple of steps beyond ‘accolades’.  Young Mr. Godley is shaping up as ‘old school’ ATSB and deserves some well earned praise as a bright spot in a dull, drab firmament of endless grey.  He stood his ground very well in Estimates, seems to have a firm grip of his subject and is unafraid to admit to ‘weakness’ in system or method.  Bravo – and thank you for restoring a little faith.

Mr Phil Hurst, CEO of the AAAA said, 'We approached ATSB with the idea of producing an annual statement of safety trends in the industry to support aerial application pilots in their ongoing professional development through AAAA’s comprehensive ‘Professional Pilot Program’ and training courses. 

Phil Hurst and his crew are consummate professionals, doing a job CASA should be assisting with by developing a tailor made PPP, based on real experience and mitigating the risks they know exist with common sense and good guidance.  The notion to bring in the ATSB was brilliant and once again, Mr. Godley has done the ATSB proud.  This sort of collaboration and cooperation should be made the benchmark for future exercises. Industry expertise combined with specialised ATSB knowledge with one purpose; reducing the risk that someone may not get to the Friday arvo BBQ.  

'This report is a very useful addition to the tools available to professional low level pilots and AAAA thanks ATSB for their practical response in improving access to the valuable safety data they hold.'

It’s so bloody nice to be able to find a positive step, in the right direction, I’m going to be smiling all day now.  Well done Phil, AAAA and Mr Godley; well done indeed.... .... ........ ........ ......... ........... ......

[thorn bird]

Agree wholeheartedly Kharon.

Just think how good it would be if CAsA could become consultative instead of confrontational.

Unfortunately the new DAS seems completely out of his depth, not doubt a nice honest man, but its a like sending in a poodle to fight a rotwieller.

Against the iron ring he has about a snowballs chance in hades.

Whats needed is a backstreet mongrel, with big TEETH.

The incompetent Mutts have to be cleaned out of CAsA before there is any chance of change.

[Gobbledock]

I have to agree that Mr Godley certainly appears to have a grasp of the 'mystique of aviation', plus he seems to speak with a small measure of openness and honesty, indeed some old school ATsB briefly shining through. But as I say, it appears that way. Maybe with the duo of Manning and Godley (with Beaker finally punted to the back of a beancounters office issuing security stickers for the carpark at Parliament House) we would turn a corner.

As for Ag Phil, he is an intelligent man with a decent sized set of plums. Now although Skid-Mark will only value RAAF types and wide body pilots, it would pay for him to listen to Phil and his friends. Ag pilots have balls the size of Harvesters and are a very skilled bunch of pilots. The notion that they are an irrelevant group and spend too much time sniffing crop pesticides is old and outdated. Those boys, and there are a few of them, are skilled and astute and also contribute greatly to our economy by performing a difficult task at times under challenging conditions.

So all in all I think it has been some months since we have seen some blue skies amongst the grey and it has been refreshing to see a few gems this week.

P_666

[Peetwo]

Just when we thought Beaker - the wannabe blogger & media magnet - was finally stepping away from the limelight, up he pops on his exclusive - taxpayer funded - blog...
Title of this bollocks piece - ATSB – more than just plane safety. Hmm...sounds like a bit of a slap down attempt to me??

I recently welcomed the re-appointment of Noel Hart as a Commissioner with the ATSB. Noel brings to the ATSB a lifetime of maritime-industry expertise as a qualified and experienced Master Mariner.


Noel’s re-appointment is a strong reminder that the ATSB is more than an aviation investigator. While aviation is a big part of our business, our focus also remains steadfastly on maritime and rail safety.

Over the last year we completed seven complex investigations into safety-related maritime incidents. Some of these involved death and serious injury. Most could have been avoided. 

Mariners don’t always get second chances. They work at heights and with potentially dangerous machinery that, with just a little inattention or complacency, can injure or even kill.

Just recently, we released an investigation report into an accident where two crew members were seriously injured by a falling load spreader on board Happy Buccaneer in Port Hedland, Western Australia.

One of the crew was pinned under the load spreader and he fractured both legs. The other crew member suffered fractures to his lower left leg. Both men required extensive surgery. Tragically, one also had his right leg amputated below the knee.

What we found in this accident, like so many before it, is that that the people involved in the task did not properly identify and take steps to manage the risks involved before the work started.

Mariners don’t always get second chances. They work at heights and with potentially dangerous machinery that, with just a little inattention or complacency, can injure or even kill.

And we’re finding that incidents like this happen all too frequently. Marine work practices is an ongoing concern that we address through our SafetyWatch initiative.

I look forward to continuing my work with Noel and the other commissioners, Caroline Walsh and Chris Manning, to improve safety across the transport industry.

Watch a video on Marine work practices.

   
"...seven complex investigations ..." FCOL poor old Noel must of been run of his feet
"...I look forward to continuing my work with Noel and the other commissioners, Caroline Walsh and Chris Manning, to improve safety across the transport industry..."

 Comment: With the expertise the ATSB now has within the commissioner ranks, kind of makes you wonder (that if it wasn't for the super sleuth's superior investigatory insight with MH370) whether the CC would now be superfluous to the ATSB...   
MTF..P2

[Gobbledock]

"Vomitus horribilus"

I wonder if poor Noel is forced to wear a full grown beard? And even worse, sit through induction training and listen to hours and hours and hours of mi mi mi?

[Kharon]

PPrune visits Plane Talking.

A Troll, by any other name. ?

While I am used to reading some inaccurate, outlandish and inflammatory comments on your articles, it again disappoints me to find them in the article itself. Please take the time to read the report your writing on, and if you still aren’t clear on the facts, make the effort to consult an SME to get your writing on aviation incident/accidents reviewed. You are commenting on a highly technical area with an implied claim of expertise; surely it behooves you to make the effort to be accurate?

Please note that the flight in question did not “plough through at low level the general aviation airspace of Essendon Airport …” or any other grammatically clumsy, hyper-sensationalised activity.

As clearly indicated in the ATSB report the flight was in compliance with the STAR restriction of 2500 ft over Essendon Airport, but subsequently established an approach profile below the 3 degree approach path espoused by Flight Safety Foundation as part of the ALAR initiative of the late 90′s, now part and parcel of Aircraft Manufacturer and Airline SOPs. There was never any risk to aircraft approaching or departing Essendon airport – at worst they could have been 1000 ft below (standard separation); and since we are talking about aircraft taking off and landing at Essendon, quite a bit more.

When you inaccurately describe an event in this way, your readers take it at face value and further inflame and degenerate the subsequent conversation to depths of inaccuracy beyond recovery. It’s a pity – I like reading about Australian Aviation; there’s not a lot of opportunity to do so; this an unsatisfactory reflection on the quality of aviation reporting in general. I realise you have to “sell papers” but please keep the rhetoric away from Incidents/accidents.

The comment above was made in response to a Ben Sandilands article, which featured yet another incident at Melbourne.  Like the ATSB and ASA, the writer fails utterly to grasp the essentials.  Perhaps he too could be an Unspeakable Prune moderator.  They’d love him over there.  I love the use of ‘behoves’  (‘behooves’ as if bee’s have feet ) it has a certain condescension, typical of the high handed arrogance and purblind ignorance that  just makes me happy all over.  Playing the man, not the ball – only way to go, when convincing the travelling public that Ben has overstated the case – I wish it were that simple. 

Anyway – FWIW.

[Gobbledock]

Perhaps the Troll is getting bored, hence his attack on Ben? Maybe the Troll has no friends to attack over at UP, is denied access to AP, and even his wife wife shuns his endless ramblings and even his small penis, hence his looking for a new target as it makes him feel like a big man?

Don't worry Ben, just ignore the fool.

[Peetwo]

Perhaps the Troll is getting bored, hence his attack on Ben? Maybe the Troll has no friends to attack over at UP, is denied access to AP, and even his wife wife shuns his endless ramblings and even his small penis, hence his looking for a new target as it makes him feel like a big man?

Don't worry Ben, just ignore the fool.

I wouldn't be concerned about Ben, with a helping hand from the Ferryman & Fred it would appear the thread/post has - momentarily at least - returned to ToRs :  

[*] Fred

Posted July 21, 2015 at 5:06 am | Permalink

The ATSB report describes HOW the crew got themselves so low on profile, but it completely glosses over WHY it happened. Consequently, the lessons that could have been learned are somewhat limited. Why was the crew slow to appreciate what was happening and take appropriate steps to correct the profile earlier? Loss of situational awareness exacerbated by fatigue? Having recognised they were low on profile, why did the crew persist with the approach, flying level at some 500 ft AGL for a further 2-3 nautical miles to intercept the profile? Surely an immediate missed approach would have been a far safer option in a large wide-body?

[*]
And then Ben's article today again reinforces his original intended message i.e. that the ATSB reporting on these (and other incidents) is superficial & defective in nature - Airbus completes runway crash prevention system availability 

...Common to each investigation was a degree of soothing superficiality on the part of the ATSB in its narrative as to the reasons behind each event...

[*]

And in the footnotes:

*The Qantas A330 serious incident report can be read here, with a link to the full ATSB report, which is essential additional reading.

*The Virgin Australia 777 incident  report (which the ATSB somehow regarded as not serious) can be read here, and the link to the full ATSB report  is particularly interesting, and calls into question its attempt to make this seem less serious than it was.

[*]
 
Anyway more on this very soon on the Search for IP etc.

MTF..P2  

[Peetwo]

Passing strange??- Back in the limelight.



Slight change of tack but I note that our resident MH370 expert - & super sleuth Muppet - managed to bag an interview with News Corp yesterday that smacks of more cynical obfuscation & outright bollocks...   I fear - from the NOK point of view - that the ATSBeaker/Abbott Govt MH370 bail-out campaign is on base & about to turn final...

Courtesy of news.com.au : 

500 days into MH370 search and still nothing found 

• by: Robyn Ironside National Aviation Writer
  
• From: News Corp Australia Network
  
• 13 hours ago July 21, 2015 12:00AM  
  
  THE man overseeing the search for MH370 never dreamt they would still be hunting for the plane 500 days after it disappeared.  
  
  Today marks the undesirable milestone in the baffling mystery of the Malaysia Airlines’ flight, that vanished soon after taking off from Kuala Lumpur to fly to Beijing on March 8 last year.
  
  It is thought to have ditched into the southern Indian Ocean more than 2000km west of Perth but an extensive air, sea and underwater search has found no trace of the aircraft.
  
  
  
  Tough job ... Fugro Discovery encounters rough conditions in the southern Indian Ocean, as the search for MH370 continues. Picture: James Hancock. Source: Supplied 
  
  In an exclusive interview with News Corp, Australian Transport Safety Bureau Chief Commissioner Martin Dolan said in the early stages, the complexity of the search mission was not immediately apparent.
  
  “Once we started looking and defining the search area, it became quite clear it could take up to two years,” said Commissioner Dolan.
  
  “We still remain confident it will be found in the next year.”
  
  So far, close to 60,000 square kilometres of the southern Indian Ocean has been scoured for MH370, leaving a little over 60,000 square kilometres to be searched.
  
  Mr Dolan confirmed that if the Boeing 777 was not discovered in that area, the search would not continue.
  
  “All the analysis we have puts the aircraft somewhere in that large search area,” he said.
  
  “We have no more information that would allow us to calculate a different area and governments accept that.”
  
  The completion of the search would also represent the limit of available funding, Mr Dolan said.
  
  But he refused to entertain the possibility MH370 may never be found, or that it would be left to families to fund their own search.
  
  “It’s hard to speculate on what might happen if we’re not successful,” Commissioner Dolan said.
  
  “All the information we have puts the aircraft in this defined search area.
  
  “The enthusiasm and high morale (of the search crews) remains remarkable. We have a very impressive group of people working for us.”
  
  Just two vessels continue to scour the search zone throughout the harsh winter months, slowing progress considerably.
  
  GO Phoenix returned to Singapore at the start of June after the vessel’s contract with Malaysia ended, and Fugro Supporter withdrew in May when conditions became unsuitable for its sensitive equipment.
  
  Commissioner Dolan said he hoped a third vessel would be able to join the operation later this year, when the weather improved.
  
  “The crews and equipment being used are excellent and the data we’re receiving is (of a quality) beyond the specifications yet,” he said.
  
  “If we have to search the entire area, it will be completed this time next year but we expect to find the aircraft before then.”
  
  Families of the 239 people on board MH370 continue to cling to the belief their loved ones are alive, hashtagging social media posts with “never lose hope”.
  
  There were six Australians on the flight including two Brisbane couples, and a Sydney couple.
  

    
Also on the dizzy limit of some bizarre, bureaucratic obfuscation of the many identified systemic safety issues underpinning aviation safety administration in this country, I note that as of yesterday the inept Dolan lead bureau has finally published the minister's SOE (note the date the SOE was supposed to have come into effect...FFS! )

Minister's statement of expectations


For the Australian Transport Safety Bureau
16 April 2015 to 30 June 2017

This Statement of Expectations (SOE) outlines in a formal and public way, the Government's expectations concerning the operations and performance of the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) from 16 April 2015 to 30 June 2017.

This SOE serves as a notice of strategic direction to the ATSB under section 12AE of the Transport Safety Investigation Act 2003 (the Act) and replaces the previous SOE which came into effect on 1 July 2013.

My expectations are that the ATSB will:

1. Perform its functions in a manner that supports Government transport safety policy by giving safety the highest priority;
   
2. Continue to give priority to transport safety investigations that have the potential to deliver the best safety outcomes for the travelling public;
   
3. While retaining operational independence in discharging its functions, remain an active and effective participant in the transport policy and regulatory framework, working effectively with the Department of Iinfrastructure and Regional Development, other Government agencies including the Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA), Airservices Australia, the Australian Maritime Safety Authority, the Office of the National Rail Safety Regulator, and the transport industry;
   
4. Continue to be a global leader in transport safety investigation, research and analysis, and fostering public awareness of transport safety;
   
5. Implement the parts of the Government's response to the Aviation Safety Regulation Review Report relevant to the ATSB in an effective and timely manner;
   
6. Implement the agreed recommendations of the Transportation Safety Board of Canada review of the ATSB in an effective and timely manner;
   
7. Prepare a workforce plan to come into effect from 1 July 2015, to be annually updated, which will outline the ATSB's approach to meeting and maintaining its future workforce needs over the next four years to ensure it has access to the skills and competencies necessary to function as a modern transport safety agency;
   
8. Implement policies, programs and other initiatives to enhance transport safety, including:
   a. subject to available resources, providing assistance to accident investigations in other countries, in accordance with international protocols;
   b. supporting the Government's transport safety agenda in the Asia/Pacific region;
   c. continuing to undertake an appropriately-scoped research agenda informed by analysis of its own safety data and investigation findings;
   d. continuing to review current investigation policies and practices to ensure that the ATSB retains its reputation as a best practice safety investigation agency and its influence on the national and international safety agenda;
   
9. Work closely with CASA to ensure continued arrangements are in place, consistent with the current Safety Information Policy Statement and informed by 'just culture' principles, for the appropriate sharing and use of safety information by the ATSB and CASA;
   
10. Work closely with National Rail Safety Regulator to ensure that arrangements are in place for the appropriate sharing and use of safety information by the A TSB and the Regulator and that these arrangements are transparent to the rail industry and consistent with a strong reporting culture;
    
11. Provide timely and accurate assistance, information and advice on safety issues to governments, industry and the community;
    
12. Provide timely advice to Government when the costs of necessary investigation activities are likely to exceed established ATSB budget levels, so that appropriate consideration can be given by the Government to the need for budget supplementation; and
    
13. Maintain high standards of professionalism, service, probity, reporting, accountability and transparency, consistent with the provisions of the Public Governance, Performance and Accountability Act 2013 and adhere to the Australian Public Service values and code of conduct.
    
    

WARREN TRUSS
Minister for Infrastructure and Regional Development
19 April 2015 




Last update 20 July 2015
 

   Not bad Wazza...   However, given this SOE has supposedly been in effect for over 3 months I can already see several glaring deficiencies in the ATSB response to your expectations. These deficiencies are perhaps best highlighted by the fact that it would appear the bureau is yet to submit a Statement of Intent:

Minister's expectations


Minister's Statement of Expectations

• Statement of Expectations
  This Statement of Expectations, covering the period from 16 April 2015 to 30 June 2017, represents a notice of strategic direction under Section 12AE of the Transport Safety Investigation Act 2003.
  

 
Statement of Intent

• Statement of Intent 
  This Statement of Intent describes the ATSB's functions and approach and outlines priorities which will form the basis for the ATSB's business and resource allocations. Those priorities and related key business outputs are consistent with the Minister's expectations and broader Government policy in the area of transport safety.
  

Last update 20 July 2015
   

Oh well at least the Commissioners collectively appear to be happy little campers, plus CM is not the invisible man :
ATSB Commission

From left to right: Ms Carolyn Walsh, Mr Chris Manning, Mr Martin Dolan, Mr Noel Hart


MTF...P2

[Gobbledock]

It behooves me that some conceited assclown would take such a parting shot at Ben. Tsk tsk