Alphabet if’s and but's.
#68

ACUO calls for tighter rules over self-regulation - Huh

Well I'll be?? One of the newest entrants to the aviation Alphabet soup groups, the AACUO, is actually calling for CASA to put in place more stringent rules for commercial operation of UAV/RPAs, their reason?? You guessed it SAFETY! Courtesy Binger from the Oz.. Wink
Quote:Drone owners demand tougher legislation
Drone operators around the nation are demanding the government strike out legislation that will deregulate the commercial operation of remotely piloted aircraft, saying the new rules will result in accidents.

The Association of Australian Certified UAV Operators has brought on lawyers from aviation and aerospace law firm IALPG to lobby the ­government to rescind the ­legislation which would allow commercial operators to fly drones weighing less than 2kg without a licence.

“We have had enormous support from the heart of the industry, the certified UAV Operators. We are also receiving wide support from the manned aviation sector, who are (horrified by) the safety implications alone,” ACUO secretary-treasurer Brad Mason told The Australian.

“It is important both to our members and the association as a whole to understand not just the commercial, but the legal and policy implications of seeking such serious action at federal level.

“We are certainly seeking change — but not at the expense of, or to the detriment of, our industry and livelihoods.”

The move to disallow the legislation comes after the Civil Aviation Safety Authority this year amended regulations to exempt commercial operators of remotely piloted aircraft weighing less than 2kg from requiring an Unmanned Aircraft Operators Certificate, which can cost thousands of dollars.
The amendments, which come into effect in September, will still require operators to obey standard flight rules, which are not to fly within 5.5km of an airport, above 400 feet or within 30m of buildings, railways or vehicles, and to always have line of sight of the drone.

CASA requires that a list of these rules is included with the sale of any drone but Mr Lloyd said they were neither strict nor clear enough in explaining the risks associated with piloting unmanned aircraft.

But groups like ACUO and existing commercial operators of drones have railed against the changes, saying they are a risk to the safe operation of aircraft.

Mr Mason said the regulations needed to be amended, going back to the original, to protect controlled airspace, aerodromes and airports from errant drones. He said all commercial operators should also be properly trained, qualified and certified to operate, regardless of drone size.

“CASA’s whole focus has failed to acknowledge the safety risks inherent in this sector.

‘‘It’s failed to recognise the necessity for trained and qualified people operating drones, and ­failed to plan and prepare accordingly with clear, concise guidance material and defined standards,” Mr Mason said.

“CASA make bold claims that the Australian regulatory suite for drones is closely aligned with international efforts.

“However, a comparison with the US regulatory outcomes clearly demonstrate that CASA’s efforts are woefully short on critical safety oversight.”

A spokesman for CASA said the new remotely piloted aircraft rules would cut regulatory costs for commercial operators of drones weighing less than 2kg by thousands of dollars, save time and reduce paperwork.

“CASA’s aim is to lighten regulatory requirements where this can be done without reducing safety standards,” the spokesman said.

“The new regulations recognise the different safety risks posed by different types of remotely piloted aircraft.

“It should be remembered the operators of sub two kilogram commercial drones will have to strictly follow a set of standard operating conditions and notify CASA of their operations,” the spokesman said.
    
This bit - “The new regulations recognise the different safety risks posed by different types of remotely piloted aircraft.

Well quite obviously that is not the opinion of the professional operators of these aircraft... Dodgy

Again one wonders what evidence base CASA are deriving these assumptions from, especially when you take into other parts of the world like the UK where their evidence base points to a very different story. Courtesy the Mirror.com.uk:
Quote:Pilots' union reveals shocking number of near-misses between planes and drones
  • 11:35, 29 Jun 2016
  • Updated 14:04, 29 Jun 2016
  • By Ben Glaze
There have been 26 this year already


[Image: Boeing-737-7C9-Luxair.jpg]
Pilots' leaders have warned the danger of a crash between a plane and a drone


Planes have one near miss a week with drones amid growing fears of a disastrous mid-air crash, the flyers’ union revealed today.

Airline pilots have reported dozens of near-misses with unmanned aircraft in the first six months of the year.

There have been 26 reports of drones getting too close to planes or helicopters since January, compared with 29 in the whole of last year, said the British Airline Pilots Association.

Balpa plans a major research project with the Department for Transport and aviation experts Qinetiq to find out what carnage would be caused by a collision between a drone and a packed passenger jet.

PA [Image: DEC-20-Drone-usage.jpg]

Pilots are increasingly worried about a collision between a plane and a drone
Association general secretary Brian Strutton said: “Pilots are concerned about the growing number of near misses and the potential for catastrophe should a collision occur.

“We need to understand more about the threats drone pose and are working with the Government, regulators and airlines for funding for testing to make the danger clear.”

There were 10 times as many drone near-misses so far this year than in 2014, he told the Mirror.

There was none in 2013.

“It’s an increasing problem – and not jut the number of near-misses but the size of the drones,” he said.

Getty [Image: An-Air-France-plane.jpg]
Pilots fear a collision could cause major damage

“They are definitely getting bigger.

“Pilots have to take a decision about whether to take responsive action when they see a drone.

“They have got many other things they are trying to account of as well.”

He hoped research would reveal the potential impact of a drone strike.

“There’s lots of information about bird strikes and things like that, but nobody has actually tested what one of these big drones could do,” he said.

“We think there are severe under estimates about the dangers of drones.”

Nissan [Image: Nissan-creates-GT-R-Drone.jpg]
A research project is planned to test what would happen if there was a crash between a drone and a plane

Project leaders are thrashing out details over whether the findings would be made public.

Mr Strutton also raised concerns about pilot tiredness, revealing airline bosses send pilots back into the skies despite them warning they are too tired to fly.

New European rules in mean pilots can fly for longer.

“We’re getting some real horror stories being reported to us about the length of time pilots are flying for without a rest,” he said.

Some fly for 20 hours, landing one plane before jumping back in the cockpit and taking off again without proper rest, he claimed.

Airline bosses pressure pilots into flying long hours, telling them: “Get back out there, we have got passengers to fly”, said Mr Srutton.

He warned: “Pilots have got to be able to say, “I don’t feel safe’.

“Just under half of pilots told us they have been compromised by fatigue – ‘compromised’ is a polite way of saying dropping off or losing concentration at the controls.
“It’s obviously a risk to safety.”

Pilots at one airline could strike over the long hours they are required to fly.

He also hit out at airlines which hire agency pilots, saying the terms were “almost Sports Direct-style”.

Mr Strutton also warned the Brexit fall out could delay a tough new crackdown on lasers pens pointed at aircraft.

Fifty-five per cent of pilots have experienced a “laser attack” in the past 12 months.
Stepping up Balpa’s campaign for tougher enforcement, he called for lasers to be treated as potential weapons.
Alamy [Image: PAY-Laser-pen-pointer.jpg]
Balpa wants tougher action against those who point laser pens at planes

“People need to understand they are not toys and pointing them at an aircraft puts all those on board and those on the ground nearby in danger,” warned Mr Strutton.

He believes Westminster wrangling in the wake of last week’s EU referendum Out vote could stall moves for a tougher clampdown.


Yes indeed interesting times ahead for Skidmore and his stuffed NFI Tigger numpties, one area where he may have actually had a less contentious win and the industry comes back playing the 'safety card' - Luv it! Big Grin


MTF...P2 Tongue
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Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Kharon - 12-01-2015, 05:59 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by crankybastards - 12-01-2015, 08:10 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by thorn bird - 12-01-2015, 07:54 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Kharon - 12-02-2015, 05:40 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 12-02-2015, 08:33 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Kharon - 12-03-2015, 05:29 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 12-13-2015, 09:25 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 12-14-2015, 07:54 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 12-17-2015, 08:55 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Gobbledock - 12-13-2015, 09:35 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 01-05-2016, 01:18 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Cap'n Wannabe - 01-05-2016, 02:24 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Kharon - 01-06-2016, 06:12 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 01-21-2016, 01:45 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by thorn bird - 01-21-2016, 06:25 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 02-03-2016, 12:16 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 02-22-2016, 02:19 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Kharon - 02-23-2016, 05:54 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 02-23-2016, 08:47 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 03-04-2016, 08:40 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 04-02-2016, 01:13 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 03-19-2016, 10:26 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Gobbledock - 03-19-2016, 10:52 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 03-19-2016, 11:44 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Kharon - 03-19-2016, 11:59 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Gobbledock - 03-19-2016, 12:49 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Kharon - 04-03-2016, 06:05 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 04-03-2016, 08:01 AM
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RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Gobbledock - 04-04-2016, 08:29 PM
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RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Kharon - 04-10-2016, 08:44 AM
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RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Kharon - 04-27-2016, 06:29 AM
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RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 05-05-2016, 10:42 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Kharon - 05-08-2016, 08:39 AM
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RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Kharon - 05-12-2016, 07:36 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by aviationadvertiser - 05-12-2016, 11:17 AM
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RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 05-27-2016, 12:48 PM
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RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Kharon - 06-09-2016, 08:36 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 06-09-2016, 08:59 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Kharon - 06-11-2016, 07:53 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 06-23-2016, 11:09 AM
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RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 08-30-2016, 06:10 PM
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RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Gobbledock - 08-30-2016, 10:03 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 09-13-2016, 05:42 PM
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RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 11-04-2016, 07:26 AM
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RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Kharon - 11-05-2016, 05:53 AM
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RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 02-21-2017, 05:37 PM
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RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Kharon - 03-06-2017, 05:00 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Gobbledock - 03-06-2017, 06:40 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Kharon - 03-06-2017, 06:44 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Gobbledock - 03-06-2017, 06:57 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 03-10-2017, 11:22 AM
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RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Kharon - 03-15-2017, 06:19 AM
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RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Kharon - 03-20-2017, 07:10 AM
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RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Kharon - 08-12-2017, 06:53 AM
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RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Kharon - 08-28-2017, 08:43 AM
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RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Kharon - 09-06-2017, 07:34 AM
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RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Kharon - 09-11-2017, 06:39 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 10-03-2017, 10:47 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 10-07-2017, 09:53 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by thorn bird - 10-07-2017, 07:14 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Kharon - 10-09-2017, 06:03 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 11-10-2017, 05:16 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 11-19-2017, 06:21 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by P7_TOM - 11-12-2017, 07:27 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 11-17-2017, 07:11 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Sandy Reith - 11-17-2017, 02:51 PM
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RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Sandy Reith - 12-20-2017, 08:52 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 12-20-2017, 05:52 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Sandy Reith - 12-20-2017, 09:15 PM
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RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Gobbledock - 04-20-2018, 03:35 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 04-23-2018, 08:32 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Gobbledock - 04-23-2018, 05:12 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by P7_TOM - 04-23-2018, 09:34 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Kharon - 04-27-2018, 06:33 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 04-27-2018, 06:33 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Gobbledock - 04-27-2018, 10:02 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 05-11-2018, 10:48 AM
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RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Kharon - 05-28-2018, 07:37 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 06-01-2018, 08:28 AM
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RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Kharon - 06-07-2018, 07:39 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 06-07-2018, 08:05 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Gobbledock - 06-07-2018, 11:14 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by thorn bird - 06-07-2018, 04:49 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by P7_TOM - 06-07-2018, 06:13 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 07-12-2018, 02:35 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Gobbledock - 07-12-2018, 07:31 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 07-17-2018, 10:03 PM
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RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Gobbledock - 08-04-2018, 11:56 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 08-07-2018, 08:01 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Gobbledock - 08-08-2018, 03:47 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 08-13-2018, 12:19 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 08-23-2018, 02:32 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Kharon - 08-24-2018, 07:08 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Cap'n Wannabe - 08-24-2018, 08:13 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 08-24-2018, 10:01 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Cap'n Wannabe - 08-24-2018, 02:48 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by P7_TOM - 08-24-2018, 07:34 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Gobbledock - 08-24-2018, 08:41 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Kharon - 08-28-2018, 06:47 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 08-28-2018, 07:02 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Kharon - 08-29-2018, 08:24 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 08-31-2018, 11:56 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Gobbledock - 08-31-2018, 06:35 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 09-10-2018, 07:55 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 09-14-2018, 11:58 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 09-28-2018, 12:07 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 09-28-2018, 09:48 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by thorn bird - 09-28-2018, 12:25 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Kharon - 10-03-2018, 05:22 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 10-26-2018, 01:12 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Gobbledock - 10-26-2018, 04:14 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Sandy Reith - 10-26-2018, 08:53 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by thorn bird - 10-26-2018, 10:05 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 10-31-2018, 08:09 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 11-07-2018, 07:21 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 11-30-2018, 09:29 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 12-07-2018, 08:53 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 12-08-2018, 08:53 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Cap'n Wannabe - 01-11-2019, 04:44 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 01-18-2019, 10:29 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by thorn bird - 01-18-2019, 05:04 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Gobbledock - 01-19-2019, 07:38 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 04-06-2019, 12:24 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 04-27-2019, 08:50 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 05-02-2019, 10:41 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 05-03-2019, 10:23 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 05-10-2019, 12:36 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Kharon - 05-11-2019, 06:39 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 06-10-2019, 04:33 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 07-18-2019, 04:43 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 08-01-2019, 12:24 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 08-23-2019, 08:48 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 09-20-2019, 09:04 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 09-21-2019, 10:08 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 09-30-2019, 06:19 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 10-04-2019, 10:54 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Kharon - 10-03-2019, 07:15 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Sandy Reith - 10-04-2019, 08:12 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 11-14-2019, 04:45 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 11-30-2019, 08:52 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 12-03-2019, 07:32 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 12-06-2019, 05:26 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 12-13-2019, 09:15 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 12-19-2019, 01:38 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 01-08-2020, 09:54 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by P7_TOM - 01-08-2020, 08:42 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Cap'n Wannabe - 01-18-2020, 07:51 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 01-24-2020, 10:03 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 02-18-2020, 09:34 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 03-04-2020, 11:13 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Kharon - 03-05-2020, 07:47 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Kharon - 03-10-2020, 09:43 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 03-24-2020, 10:57 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 04-03-2020, 10:58 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 05-07-2020, 10:18 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 05-15-2020, 01:41 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by P7_TOM - 09-04-2020, 07:46 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 09-05-2020, 11:32 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 09-06-2020, 08:08 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by thorn bird - 09-06-2020, 09:43 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 10-01-2020, 01:32 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 11-13-2020, 12:53 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 09-18-2021, 10:00 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Sandy Reith - 09-18-2021, 12:48 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 10-24-2021, 09:40 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 11-09-2021, 08:32 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 04-14-2022, 12:26 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Sandy Reith - 04-14-2022, 11:49 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Wombat - 04-14-2022, 06:45 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Sandy Reith - 04-15-2022, 05:35 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Kharon - 04-17-2022, 07:06 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 06-09-2022, 09:48 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Wombat - 06-10-2022, 10:05 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 06-10-2022, 10:38 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 08-12-2022, 07:40 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 08-24-2022, 10:38 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 08-26-2022, 08:07 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 09-23-2022, 09:17 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Kharon - 11-30-2022, 05:11 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 11-30-2022, 04:33 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 08-11-2023, 04:54 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 04-12-2024, 08:47 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 06-15-2024, 09:47 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 08-29-2024, 08:05 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Sandy Reith - 08-31-2024, 05:33 PM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 09-16-2024, 10:01 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 09-16-2024, 10:05 AM
RE: Alphabet if’s and but's. - by Peetwo - 09-16-2024, 10:05 AM



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