A six pack assisted summary.
We began with a P2 posed a question –on this thread #1.
P2 “I chat with P9 regularly and I hear his frustrations loud and clear, that is why I am starting this thread in the hope to open up the conversation on how the flight training standards in Australia can hopefully get back to basics, because clearly they have drifted to beyond just complacency, to a world of ignorance and blind bravado/Darwin award candidates, in the GA and in particular some of the RAA ranks of private pilot trainees and PPL licence holders”.
It is about time to 'wrap' this exploration into the 'unknown' – into the not-resolved pigeon hole.
“It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma”; (apologies to Churchill).
I can however look back a good long way to the days where 'the rules' and 'standards' demanded were acknowledged and treated as 'guidance for wise men and the obedience of fools'. (D. Bader). It is, treated 'honestly' -not a bad 'philosophy' – provided the basic tenet is treated not only with respect, but a full, experienced, understanding of 'when to push it'. How many can honestly say that the odd 'few feet' of a just shy visibility 'limit' was given a nudge in the right direction? Or the provided the 'cloud base' a gentle lift in the right direction. Not too many professionals I'll bet; and I'd loose, every time. You do see that at 260' feet above the threshold, at 140/150 KIAS; in (real) weather, in the dark, heavy loaded, there is 'little' in the way of wriggle room, not for the finer points of law – unless you prang the bloody thing; then the lawyers will ensure there's Hell to pay. Such is life...Alternatively; you elect to 'go around' and come back for a second shot; or, bugger off to another airport. There is still Hell to pay; but a different 'devil' in the judges chair. Aye, it's tricky stuff; particularly when the preceding and the following aircraft landed – on Sched. Such is life: and, life is such.
So much for 'professional' life; but, before getting anywhere near making such decisions; there must be a period where the 'wannabe' pilot gains the 'command confidence' to make those decisions. ATR/ ATPL pilots in an airline environment as First officers; always have time and exposure to 'Captains': some good, some great, some - not so much. But, from every exposure, 'good or bad' for weal or for woe; a series of 'events' and 'results' format the mindset of the future Captains. Not so for the average neophyte in a flight school environment or even on a Charter flight line. Even the 'simple' things are complicated and 'lonesome'.
Information is not knowledge. The only source of knowledge is experience. You need experience to gain wisdom.
I will try my best here to 'simplify' what I believe is the 'flaw' in the 'system'; I hasten to add that this is not the radical, but, we do seem to have some higher body counts in recent years than those preceding them. It is, altogether, too easy to 'fix' on a blame point; but blame never solved the equation; that indaba belongs the lawyers, government and the 'authority' presiding. (Ramble warning)
When I was very, very young, my first dog was an old Collie (Bruce); when I was very young, my first horse was an aged beast (Clancy). As I grew, I mourned the loss of both, BUT: when I questioned Grandpa and Father about this puzzle they answered simply; young owner, old dog, young rider old horse; both taught you the things you did not know. You cannot train either horse or dog until you understand what they (it of itself) 'are' how they work; and, who in essence, they are. My next dog and horse were younger; together we 'learned' the way things are. Took two years until Grandpa smiled one day and said; “good job with that dog; but that colt”. Here I got some advice, (being deemed now smart enough to listen to it) which I heeded, and 'that Colt' turned out to be a 'good'un'. It took me a twelve month to get a 'nod and a smile' of approval for the hours, bruises and frustration created by a wily, willful rocket. RIP mate. Same – same, instructing in shotguns, tools, motor bikes, and a hundred other 'dangerous' things. etc. I wander...
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.”
In short; instructing is a 'calling' based on ;knowledge, experience, training and exposure. It is not a way to build up hours. The same hour a thousand times may look good on paper – suit a cutout 'corporate' HR 'pro-format' and signifies for nothing worthwhile. But, when it matters; really matters – well; as you slam into the vertical dirt; remember – you only know what you were taught.
That, my old mate (P2) is all I can say; the cynical sausage factories which produce 'junior' CPL with an instructor rating; who have never 'sketched' their way carrying an honest payload to Daly River Mission, in the wet; have only what they were taught to teach. The 'other blokes (and Blokesses) are out there; learning their trade every working day, the real way, in the real world. Perhaps; maybe, an 'Instructor' rating 'qualification could depend on 'real' experience – as a working pilot. But, for that we would need a larger industry. Alas; the 'rural' market and 'proper jobs' are as scarce as hen's teeth; and who, these days wants to live 'out-back'. What? no macchiato, no sushi Arrrrgh!
Dunno P2, – but I'm done with this; we do have sophisticated auto flight systems, those who speak 'computer' and live by I-phone; aircraft that no longer require the human hand or thinking now; and with HR's selective matrix; what could possibly go wrong? Perhaps the computer could whistle up the flight attendant to trim a fuel flow if the engine asked for it; cue - electronic voice - #3 reduce flow to 2000 Kph; thank you – row 14 wants more coffee. Click.
Oh, hell, I miss my Viscount – now that, that was a puzzle, wrapped in an enigma; a worthy challenge – to a 'pilot'.
Toot – duck it all & endit – toot.
We began with a P2 posed a question –on this thread #1.
P2 “I chat with P9 regularly and I hear his frustrations loud and clear, that is why I am starting this thread in the hope to open up the conversation on how the flight training standards in Australia can hopefully get back to basics, because clearly they have drifted to beyond just complacency, to a world of ignorance and blind bravado/Darwin award candidates, in the GA and in particular some of the RAA ranks of private pilot trainees and PPL licence holders”.
It is about time to 'wrap' this exploration into the 'unknown' – into the not-resolved pigeon hole.
“It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma”; (apologies to Churchill).
I can however look back a good long way to the days where 'the rules' and 'standards' demanded were acknowledged and treated as 'guidance for wise men and the obedience of fools'. (D. Bader). It is, treated 'honestly' -not a bad 'philosophy' – provided the basic tenet is treated not only with respect, but a full, experienced, understanding of 'when to push it'. How many can honestly say that the odd 'few feet' of a just shy visibility 'limit' was given a nudge in the right direction? Or the provided the 'cloud base' a gentle lift in the right direction. Not too many professionals I'll bet; and I'd loose, every time. You do see that at 260' feet above the threshold, at 140/150 KIAS; in (real) weather, in the dark, heavy loaded, there is 'little' in the way of wriggle room, not for the finer points of law – unless you prang the bloody thing; then the lawyers will ensure there's Hell to pay. Such is life...Alternatively; you elect to 'go around' and come back for a second shot; or, bugger off to another airport. There is still Hell to pay; but a different 'devil' in the judges chair. Aye, it's tricky stuff; particularly when the preceding and the following aircraft landed – on Sched. Such is life: and, life is such.
So much for 'professional' life; but, before getting anywhere near making such decisions; there must be a period where the 'wannabe' pilot gains the 'command confidence' to make those decisions. ATR/ ATPL pilots in an airline environment as First officers; always have time and exposure to 'Captains': some good, some great, some - not so much. But, from every exposure, 'good or bad' for weal or for woe; a series of 'events' and 'results' format the mindset of the future Captains. Not so for the average neophyte in a flight school environment or even on a Charter flight line. Even the 'simple' things are complicated and 'lonesome'.
Information is not knowledge. The only source of knowledge is experience. You need experience to gain wisdom.
I will try my best here to 'simplify' what I believe is the 'flaw' in the 'system'; I hasten to add that this is not the radical, but, we do seem to have some higher body counts in recent years than those preceding them. It is, altogether, too easy to 'fix' on a blame point; but blame never solved the equation; that indaba belongs the lawyers, government and the 'authority' presiding. (Ramble warning)
When I was very, very young, my first dog was an old Collie (Bruce); when I was very young, my first horse was an aged beast (Clancy). As I grew, I mourned the loss of both, BUT: when I questioned Grandpa and Father about this puzzle they answered simply; young owner, old dog, young rider old horse; both taught you the things you did not know. You cannot train either horse or dog until you understand what they (it of itself) 'are' how they work; and, who in essence, they are. My next dog and horse were younger; together we 'learned' the way things are. Took two years until Grandpa smiled one day and said; “good job with that dog; but that colt”. Here I got some advice, (being deemed now smart enough to listen to it) which I heeded, and 'that Colt' turned out to be a 'good'un'. It took me a twelve month to get a 'nod and a smile' of approval for the hours, bruises and frustration created by a wily, willful rocket. RIP mate. Same – same, instructing in shotguns, tools, motor bikes, and a hundred other 'dangerous' things. etc. I wander...
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.”
In short; instructing is a 'calling' based on ;knowledge, experience, training and exposure. It is not a way to build up hours. The same hour a thousand times may look good on paper – suit a cutout 'corporate' HR 'pro-format' and signifies for nothing worthwhile. But, when it matters; really matters – well; as you slam into the vertical dirt; remember – you only know what you were taught.
That, my old mate (P2) is all I can say; the cynical sausage factories which produce 'junior' CPL with an instructor rating; who have never 'sketched' their way carrying an honest payload to Daly River Mission, in the wet; have only what they were taught to teach. The 'other blokes (and Blokesses) are out there; learning their trade every working day, the real way, in the real world. Perhaps; maybe, an 'Instructor' rating 'qualification could depend on 'real' experience – as a working pilot. But, for that we would need a larger industry. Alas; the 'rural' market and 'proper jobs' are as scarce as hen's teeth; and who, these days wants to live 'out-back'. What? no macchiato, no sushi Arrrrgh!
Dunno P2, – but I'm done with this; we do have sophisticated auto flight systems, those who speak 'computer' and live by I-phone; aircraft that no longer require the human hand or thinking now; and with HR's selective matrix; what could possibly go wrong? Perhaps the computer could whistle up the flight attendant to trim a fuel flow if the engine asked for it; cue - electronic voice - #3 reduce flow to 2000 Kph; thank you – row 14 wants more coffee. Click.
Oh, hell, I miss my Viscount – now that, that was a puzzle, wrapped in an enigma; a worthy challenge – to a 'pilot'.
Toot – duck it all & endit – toot.