[Peetwo]

Miniscule Dicky King trainwreck interview: Skerritt the panacea for Transport Safety agencies?? 

Via Su_Spence saga thread:

Miniscule Dicky King weighs in on CASA ineptitude on Broome R44 fatal?? - 

Via LinkedIn... :

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Australian Aviation
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Transport Minister Catherine King has defended CASA’s handling of the company responsible for 2020’s fatal crash of a Robinson R44 helicopter which killed a young girl.

The minister told ABC Radio in Perth this week that CASA “can’t be everywhere” in response to questions from host Nadia Mitsopoulos over whether the crash, which took the life of 12-year-old Amber Jess Millar (pictured), could have been prevented had CASA been more proactive.

https://ow.ly/xgqe50Q5Mti

Link for the transcript of the Perth (trainwreck) ABC radio interview:  https://minister.infrastructure.gov.au/c...-abc-perth

Note this was the sub-heading for that interview:

INTERVIEW

Tuesday 07 November 2023

Subjects: Crash in Daylesford, Electrifying Perth's buses, sustainable aviation fuel

Note there is no mention about CASA's failings in the Broome R44 fatal, this is despite the transcript revealing that this was the dominant interview subject matter:

NADIA MITSOPOULOS: Okay. Catherine King is with me, the Minister for Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government. Let’s stay on the issue of aviation, because you would be familiar with that chopper crash in Broome a few years ago that killed the pilot, Troy Thomas, and 13‑year‑old Amber Millar.

Now the Australian Transport Safety Bureau did a report into that crash, it described the pilot as having a risk‑taking appetite. It also found six unreported incidents and accidents involving Mr Thomas. Are you confident there are no more matters to be canvassed concerning Troy Thomas?

CATHERINE KING: Well, what I will say is that it’s really important that we have an independent Civil Aviation Safety Agency that focuses on safety, and the ATSB, whilst they did not find any findings against CASA, what I’ve asked CASA to do is to look at this incident, make sure that there is any other lessons that they would learn from that, and if there’s anything further they need to do, that they need to do so.

I’ve met over the phone with Clint and Fiona, so –

NADIA MITSOPOULOS: Who are 12‑year‑old Amber’s parents?

CATHERINE KING: Unimaginable, unimaginable, and I’ve got a 15‑year‑old, I think all of us can just imagine, you know, what we would feel in those circumstances, and have put them in touch with the head of CASA, Pip Spence, they’ve been talking to her and they’re in touch fairly regularly.

CASA has said publicly, obviously had the pilot survived the accident, they would have taken action against the pilot, but that unfortunately they’re not able to do, he lost his life in that incident as well. They’ve said that really clearly that’s what would have happened.

But again, it’s whether there was any further action in terms of the maintenance of this craft, whether there’s more, broader systemic things that they think they need to do. So they’re continuing to look at that, but ATSB have finished its investigation and didn’t find any direct findings against CASA, and really what ATSB will do, and they’re the investigators, will look at whether there’s any systemic failures that need further work.

NADIA MITSOPOULOS: Isn’t the failure here, and I appreciate ATSB has completed their report and they’ve done what was asked of them, isn’t the issue here the fact that there were another six unreported incidents and accidents? I mean this involved a chopper going into the water, one of those incidents involved somebody being injured. I mean, I guess what people are trying to understand is how can that happen, that five or six incidents go unreported.

CATHERINE KING: Well, exactly. To some extent I would say it is absolutely incumbent on everyone in aviation, if there are incidents that occur, like we all have to operate safely. It is difficult for the ATSB or for CASA to be aware of something if it’s not reported.

NADIA MITSOPOULOS: But what about if CASA was more proactive, maybe they would have learnt about it, because the problem is they are reactive not proactive.

CATHERINE KING: Well, I think you could say that about all of our safety systems to some extent, but what I –

NADIA MITSOPOULOS: That’s not good.

CATHERINE KING: – what I’d say with this is they can’t be everywhere. Like they just can’t, you know, we can’t have investigators everywhere, but what we can have is eyes on the industry everywhere, and that is incumbent on all of us, if we see something, report it, if we see that there’s unsafe action, or you think there is unsafe action in the industry; general aviation is a big sector, it is everywhere, in small airports, small properties, all the way across the country, it is really important that people report incidents if they think something is happening and report that to CASA so they can investigate, cause they just can’t be everywhere.

NADIA MITSOPOULOS: But there’s no presence of CASA in the Kimberley. That’s been ‑  and whenever we talk about this I get ‑ and I’ve already got text messages coming in from people saying that there’s no eyes on the aviation industry in the Kimberley. Is there anyone from CASA there?

CATHERINE KING: I’d have to go back and check that, but what I would say is we are all eyes, so wherever you are, you are an eye on the industry, and so it’s important to report that to CASA. CASA, as I said, are still looking at whether there are other things they need to do. One of the things also –

NADIA MITSOPOULOS: Could they be more proactive?

CATHERINE KING: I think ATSB did not find that, but what I would –

NADIA MITSOPOULOS: But I’m asking you.

CATHERINE KING: No, no, and what I would say is I have got at the moment John Skerritt who used to head up the Therapeutic Goods Administration, I appointed him when we were last in government, it’s a regulatory agency around the safety of medicines and products. He has now left the TGA, and he is undertaking a piece of work for me across CASA, ATSB and AMSA, which is the Australian Maritime Safety Agency, to look at a couple of things. First is sustainable funding models, so we need to make sure we’ve got enough resources so that they can do their jobs, and also to look at the regulatory environment in which they operate in.

So he’s having a look at that for me at the moment, and certainly if there’s anything further that we need to do, or if CASA identifies anything further they think we need to do, then I am up for that.

NADIA MITSOPOULOS: It’s 17 past 10. I’ve got the Infrastructure and Transport Minister, Catherine King, with me. So are you aware that CASA is putting another two staff in WA, are you aware of that?

CATHERINE KING: Because they’re independent of me, they have a separate board and they are independent of Government, they organise their own operational arrangements, so they wouldn’t inform me about what they’re doing, but if they are doing that, then that is a good thing. That would be a matter for the board and for the CEO to determine that.

NADIA MITSOPOULOS: Does it surprise you that CASA’s not had a presence up there?

CATHERINE KING: I think that –

NADIA MITSOPOULOS: And we know there are problems with the aviation industry.

CATHERINE KING: Yeah. Well, if there’s – and certainly if there are systemic problems, particularly up north that CASA is identifying, and that is a good thing, if they’re putting more staff up there, then that is a good thing.

NADIA MITSOPOULOS: What type of new evidence would warrant a fresh inquiry into this issue?

CATHERINE KING: I’m not an investigator, and it really wouldn’t be something that would be ‑ that’s not for me to determine. What I have said, you know, and in the discussions we’ve had with Pip Spence, particularly the head of CASA, is, you know, if there are things that they identify they can do better, then they need to look at that, and you know, talk to me about what they need to be able to do that, and so that’s really where that’s up to at the moment.

NADIA MITSOPOULOS: The Coroner here has refused a public inquest into that fatal crash, and it was hoped he would also look beyond just that crash and safety issues generally in the particularly tourism aviation industry. Did you make any representation to support a Coronial inquest?

CATHERINE KING: It would be inappropriate for me to do that. They are obviously independent, they’re part of the WA judicial system as well, it would be inappropriate for me to do that.

NADIA MITSOPOULOS: Are you meeting with the Benbow family while you’re in Perth?

CATHERINE KING: Not while I’m in Perth, but as I said, I have met with them, they’ve met via phone with staff from my office, and we’ve put them in touch with Pip Spence.

NADIA MITSOPOULOS: Are you concerned about the mounting – well, there is concern at CASA regarding short staffing, bloated work backlogs, key unions involved with CASA, their members walking off the job; are you concerned about CASA’s ability to do their job properly, because these are very serious concerns, when people go on strike, you got to listen.

CATHERINE KING: They’re currently in EBA negotiations at the moment, so I do ‑ they are in Enterprise Bargaining Agreement negotiations at the moment, so some of that commentary has that as a backdrop, so but what I –

NADIA MITSOPOULOS: So are you saying it’s not genuine, the concerns?

CATHERINE KING: – would say is there’s an EBA negotiation happening at the moment, but the other thing that is happening, as I said, is we’ve asked John Skerritt to have a look at the sustainable funding models for the safety agencies across my portfolio.

NADIA MITSOPOULOS: And what about aviation in the tourism industry; does that need to be specifically looked at?

CATHERINE KING: Well, I mean it’s very broad, and so really, you know, there are a lot of general aviation operators in the tourism sector, and they all have requirements under CASA regulations, I mean they all do have those.

So if there are people who are operating outside of the regulations, then you know, that is something that is of concern to us, and as I said, in this particular incident CASA has said very clearly, had the pilot survived, then there would have been ‑ they would have taken some action against him.

NADIA MITSOPOULOS: I appreciate what you’re saying, but isn’t the question here who is checking them? You can have all the regulations you want, but they’ve got to be enforced, and the whole criticism here is about the lack of oversight, no one’s checking.

CATHERINE KING: And you cannot have a CASA officer at every airport, in every single plane right the way across the country. That is why it is incumbent on the sector itself to report; if people see anything they need to report. Obviously CASA needs to be able to do its job, it needs the resources to do its job, and that’s my job –

NADIA MITSOPOULOS: But it needs to be more proactive, doesn’t it –

CATHERINE KING: – to make sure that’s the case.

NADIA MITSOPOULOS: – to be looking at the industry. I’m not saying you have an officer in every plane, but there’s been virtually no presence in WA.

CATHERINE KING: But I would say that it, you know, like they do investigate, you know, they do investigate. But again, if there are things that need to be done to improve, not just CASA’s presence, but what they are doing in terms of general aviation more broadly, then, you know, I’m up for that, and part of what John Skerritt will be looking at is to look at whether the systems are working as they should be, not just at CASA but across all of my safety agencies.

(ABC Radio audio link - HERE. The Miniscule DK interview starts at approximately the 01:36:30 mark.)

Looking through previous episodes of the Nadia Mitsopoulos morning radio program, I note that last week she focused on the Broome R44 crash that killed 12 year old Ambar Miller: https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/p.../103036226 (from 05:15 minutes)

The parents of 12-year-old Amber Millar who died in a helicopter crash in Broome in 2020 are devastated the WA Coroner has decided not to hold an inquest in to the tragedy.

DK quotes: ".. I have got at the moment John Skerritt who used to head up the Therapeutic Goods Administration, I appointed him when we were last in government, it’s a regulatory agency around the safety of medicines and products. He has now left the TGA, and he is undertaking a piece of work for me across CASA, ATSB and AMSA, which is the Australian Maritime Safety Agency, to look at a couple of things...as I said, is we’ve asked John Skerritt to have a look at the sustainable funding models for the safety agencies across my portfolio. ...part of what John Skerritt will be looking at is to look at whether the systems are working as they should be, not just at CASA but across all of my safety agencies..."

No doubt in my mind that the Miniscule did not originally intend to spill the intel on John Skerritt appointment. This spill was purely as a result of a tenacious reporters relentless questioning on the major deficiencies and duplicity of CASA rotary wing operator/pilot oversight in the topend. (Refer this post for background on Su_Spence's sensitivity around this: Su_Spence's conflicted 'stating the bollocks' on Top-End Madness??)

From Google trolling I came across this Dept webpage: Australian Transport Safety and Investigation Bodies Financial Sustainability Review

Our transport safety bodies are world-renowned (  - yeah right) and the Australian Government is committed to ensuring they stay operationally fit-for-purpose and are sustainably funded to carry out their responsibilities.

The Australian Transport Safety and Investigation Bodies Financial Sustainability Review (the Review) will review the operations, consider potential efficiencies and options for cost recovery of the following bodies;

• Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA)
  
• Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB)
  
• Australian Maritime Safety Authority (AMSA)
  

The Review will be undertaken over six months.

About the Review

The objectives of the Review are to identify, report and make recommendations on:

• The extent to which agencies’ operations and associated funding arrangements/mechanisms are fit for discharging their legislative and regulatory responsibilities, and whether any changes should be considered by Government.
  
• Government and non-government funding sources of safety and investigation bodies, together with current and future funding requirements (based on the efficient cost of delivery), including regarding any expected changes to each agency’s operating environment.
  
• Assessment of options for government and non-government funding sources, including through cost recovery, and their likely sectoral impacts.
  
• Opportunities for operational efficiencies, and how they could be implemented, including whether opportunities exist to implement risk-based frameworks or scale operations to adapt to changing circumstances.
  
• Any legislative or regulatory amendments required as a consequence of other recommendations made.
  
• The Reviewer will consult with relevant government and industry stakeholders. The Reviewer will provide a report to the Minister for Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government following the conclusion of the Review for consideration.
  

Terms of Reference

Read the Terms of Reference.

Hmm...wonder why such a significant review has not been made public nor mentioned by Betts, Su_Spence and CO, or questioned on by the Senate RRAT committee in the Supplementary Budget Estimates? The sinister answer is on the ToR webpage:

 

Date published: 24 October 2023

Australian Transport Safety and Investigation Bodies Financial Sustainability Review—Terms of Reference

Document Australian Transport Safety and Investigation Bodies Financial Sustainability Review—Terms of Reference—PDF (220.7 KB)
Document Australian Transport Safety and Investigation Bodies Financial Sustainability Review—Terms of Reference—DOCX (129.49 KB)

So the ToR wasn't published till the day after the RRAT Senate Estimates hearing and is still yet to be brought to the attention of industry and taxpayers, including the identity of the anointed Reviewer John Skerritt??

Of also 'passing strange' interest is there are 2 versions under 'Governance'/'Who will conduct the Review?'

From the ToR:

1.3 Governance

1.3.1 Role of the Reviewer

The Review will be conducted by a Reviewer with appropriate expertise in public sector financial, operations and
governance to be appointed by The Hon Catherine King MP, Minister for Infrastructure, Transport, Regional
Development and Local Government (the Minister).

The Reviewer will be responsible for the delivery of the final report to Government by early 2024, including
recommendations addressing the scope outlined above.

Secretariat support for the Review will be provided by the Australian Department of Infrastructure, Transport,
Regional Development, Communications and the Arts (the Department).

 

And from the review webpage:

Who will conduct the Review?

The Review is being undertaken by an eminent person with extensive expertise in public sector financial, operations and governance appointed by The Hon Catherine King MP, Minister for Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government (the Minister).

The Reviewer will be responsible for the delivery of the final report to Government by early 2024, including recommendations addressing the scope outlined above.

The Reviewer is being supported by a secretariat team within the Department of Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development, Communication and the Arts.

Spot the difference?

I wonder when the review webpage was 1st made public?

Finally, the 'Reviewer':

Reviewer

Professor John Skerritt



Professor John Skerritt is a respected regulatory leader with extensive experience in strategic policy, operational and financing models for regulatory systems. He has led a number of regulatory functions across health, agriculture, veterinary and fisheries, and land and natural resource protection and emergency management areas. This includes supporting and implementing the results of major government reviews, modernising regulatory policies and operations including business and digital transformation, developing strengthened compliance and enforcement schemes as well as playing a lead role in the national and international harmonisation of regulation and regulatory practice.

He has extensive senior government experience, including 24 years in three Deputy Secretary/Deputy CEO roles - within the Australian Department of Health (including 10 years as Head of the Therapeutic Goods Administration), the Foreign Affairs and Trade Portfolio and within the Victorian Government. Professor Skerritt also has significant experience on boards of international and national organisations, including as board chair and as chair of board audit committees.

Prof Skerritt is a Professor and Adjunct Professor respectively at the universities of Melbourne and Sydney and has a PhD and a University Medal from the University of Sydney, and international qualifications in management from London Business School and IMD Switzerland.

Hmm...didn't notice any references to transport safety, aviation or maritime safety investigation??

MTF?- Definitely...P2