Australian Flying – from Hitch.
Hitch - “It's hard to blame RAAus for bailing out on fatal accident investigations. At first read this looks like an ASAO shirking their responsibilities, but if you go deeper into it, you'll find a lot more.
Good point; and to the 'innocent' mind it would seem fair enough, even a good idea. But to other minds, in say a legal brawl, the first argument any competent opposition would launch would be along the lines of - “the foxes investigating a chook shed slaughter”.
Hitch - “Like many others, I frowned when RAAus declared that accident investigations weren't a "core activity", but then realised that an ASAO is an administrative organisation not unlike CASA, and CASA isn't the lead organisation in accident investigation either.
Fair call; at first glance. But, despite CASA being at 'arms length' from the ASAO it was they who signed off on the approvals – all the approvals. If a flaw was uncovered in the 'operating system' then, if push came to shove, any holes in the knitting could, and probably would cause, at very least, some headaches and awkward questions.
Hitch - “Accident investigation is solely the domain of the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB), which is the way it should be. The sort of accidents that plague recreational aviation are the same ones that plague VH- registered aeroplanes, and so the causes and contributing factors are very similar if not exactly the same.
Correct; the intriguing element is the casual use of the word 'accident'. After any sort of 'prang' or bingle' particularly when death or property damage is involved; the insurance companies become involved: deeply involved. Take a few moments to read through this article – HERE -. Food for thought and explanation of why the ATSB and only the ATSB should investigate and produce a report..
Hitch - “The problem is not so much one of the registration on the side, but the fact that there are so many accidents and incidents in aviation that the ATSB doesn't have the budget to look at them all.
OK; but these events are 'scale-able'. Wheels up landing? Insurance job. Lost control on landing – insurance; VFR crashed into a mountain in IMC – does that really need much more to be said? From an operational POV – yes; lots and much more; but from the 'legal' standpoint – with / without passengers involved – that will probably end up in court; after the coroner. BUT – the next part will depend very much on the unbiased report provided by an 'independent' agency i.e. the ATSB. Where any sort of 'blame' and liability are involved; the ATSB report is a critical, must have, unimpeachable, independent document. In short; once any accident becomes 'fatal' – it goes 'legal' and the ATSB investigation is a core element from then. Budget is a poor excuse; air safety is, we are often told, paramount. There are savings and efficiency options available to the ATSB – and they can always say “Please sir, I want some more'....
Hitch - “They were relying on RAAus to do their own under their own budget. This ramped-up the risk for RAAus given that they have no protection under the Transport Safety Investigation Act they way the ATSB does. With RAAus demurring on leading fatal accident investigations, it falls to the state police and coroners to decide what happened, which is unlikely to lead to a safety outcome as much assigning blame. The only answer is for the Federal Government to properly fund the ATSB so we can learn more from every accident that happens, not just the VH-registered ones.
Hear, hear: but first there must be a long hard look taken at what the ATSB is 'supposed' to be and do. Look back to Pel-Air; the ATR; Essendon; the Conquest in SA Par Avion in Tasmania and many many other 'reports' which took far too long and provided little except for top cover for CASA and little else that mattered. The MoU needs to be destroyed, ATSB must be independent of all external influence. Dolan began the decline; Hood made certain the rot set in and now we have a new face at the helm; the jury is still out on that face – but the auguries are not good. He seems more interested in capturing the OTSI budget and building an empire – than two dead when Gliders mix it with powered aircraft. Far removed from the BASI 'vision splendid'. BASI was a world class outfit – gold plated – what has morphed from the ashes of that once fine, highly esteemed operation is almost beyond contempt; almost..
Cheers Hitch, well said..(Choc Frog).
Toot – toot.
Hitch - “It's hard to blame RAAus for bailing out on fatal accident investigations. At first read this looks like an ASAO shirking their responsibilities, but if you go deeper into it, you'll find a lot more.
Good point; and to the 'innocent' mind it would seem fair enough, even a good idea. But to other minds, in say a legal brawl, the first argument any competent opposition would launch would be along the lines of - “the foxes investigating a chook shed slaughter”.
Hitch - “Like many others, I frowned when RAAus declared that accident investigations weren't a "core activity", but then realised that an ASAO is an administrative organisation not unlike CASA, and CASA isn't the lead organisation in accident investigation either.
Fair call; at first glance. But, despite CASA being at 'arms length' from the ASAO it was they who signed off on the approvals – all the approvals. If a flaw was uncovered in the 'operating system' then, if push came to shove, any holes in the knitting could, and probably would cause, at very least, some headaches and awkward questions.
Hitch - “Accident investigation is solely the domain of the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB), which is the way it should be. The sort of accidents that plague recreational aviation are the same ones that plague VH- registered aeroplanes, and so the causes and contributing factors are very similar if not exactly the same.
Correct; the intriguing element is the casual use of the word 'accident'. After any sort of 'prang' or bingle' particularly when death or property damage is involved; the insurance companies become involved: deeply involved. Take a few moments to read through this article – HERE -. Food for thought and explanation of why the ATSB and only the ATSB should investigate and produce a report..
Hitch - “The problem is not so much one of the registration on the side, but the fact that there are so many accidents and incidents in aviation that the ATSB doesn't have the budget to look at them all.
OK; but these events are 'scale-able'. Wheels up landing? Insurance job. Lost control on landing – insurance; VFR crashed into a mountain in IMC – does that really need much more to be said? From an operational POV – yes; lots and much more; but from the 'legal' standpoint – with / without passengers involved – that will probably end up in court; after the coroner. BUT – the next part will depend very much on the unbiased report provided by an 'independent' agency i.e. the ATSB. Where any sort of 'blame' and liability are involved; the ATSB report is a critical, must have, unimpeachable, independent document. In short; once any accident becomes 'fatal' – it goes 'legal' and the ATSB investigation is a core element from then. Budget is a poor excuse; air safety is, we are often told, paramount. There are savings and efficiency options available to the ATSB – and they can always say “Please sir, I want some more'....
Hitch - “They were relying on RAAus to do their own under their own budget. This ramped-up the risk for RAAus given that they have no protection under the Transport Safety Investigation Act they way the ATSB does. With RAAus demurring on leading fatal accident investigations, it falls to the state police and coroners to decide what happened, which is unlikely to lead to a safety outcome as much assigning blame. The only answer is for the Federal Government to properly fund the ATSB so we can learn more from every accident that happens, not just the VH-registered ones.
Hear, hear: but first there must be a long hard look taken at what the ATSB is 'supposed' to be and do. Look back to Pel-Air; the ATR; Essendon; the Conquest in SA Par Avion in Tasmania and many many other 'reports' which took far too long and provided little except for top cover for CASA and little else that mattered. The MoU needs to be destroyed, ATSB must be independent of all external influence. Dolan began the decline; Hood made certain the rot set in and now we have a new face at the helm; the jury is still out on that face – but the auguries are not good. He seems more interested in capturing the OTSI budget and building an empire – than two dead when Gliders mix it with powered aircraft. Far removed from the BASI 'vision splendid'. BASI was a world class outfit – gold plated – what has morphed from the ashes of that once fine, highly esteemed operation is almost beyond contempt; almost..
Cheers Hitch, well said..(Choc Frog).
Toot – toot.