[Jacki_Binkley]

<<<<It seems that Beaker may have found a new way to top up that pot of money that he just loooooves molesting;

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2015-05-13...ck/6467624>>>>>>>>

I do believe you are right on that one?  They must think they have found gold in this shipwreck to keep searching.  I also think that they are searching for something else that may be down there and its not a plane....perhaps something much more valuable.  How else could they claim this bogus search?  So many lies have been told by those parties involved, so many conspiracies have been fueled by the lies, and its beyond ridiculous already.  The families need closure, not more wild theories and stories.  
The RMAF radar has been proven bogus, so once you eliminate that, you only have the IMST data to which the radar was tried to duplicate but failed.  NO radar, no beginning or end point, which means that IMST lied too.  All data was based on assumptions to tweak the IMST data.  How long will this charade carry on?  The truth needs to be told, and it ain't going to happen in the SIO, EVER!!!!!!

[P7_TOM]

Now the kids are asleep and the house is quiet.

It seems that the white noise levels in the information vacuum are dying down as the May deadline approaches, starved of answers.   All the 'other' theory or conjecture is still being 'officially' dismissed, ruled out as improbable; but there is still no sign of the aircraft, no wreckage and no new ideas.  Perhaps it's time for a 're-think'.

Agenda Item 4: - HERE - Asia/Pacific and inter-regional SAR planning, coordination and cooperation: released by the ICAO in January 2015 is as close to official sanity as we are likely to get and it is worthy of consideration.  Two parts of this report have been carefully examined by SAR savvy associates; the questions they raised in January, still valid today were not worth pursuing – publicly – until the May deadline, to give the full benefit of doubt to the JRCC et al.  

JRCC Drift Planning.

2.18 JRCC Australia uses its own custom designed drift modelling program called Net Water Movement (NWM). For conventional searches, this program has proved a valuable asset to search planning. Results from NWM are validated and compared against another proprietary drift modelling program and also validated as soon as possible through the deployment of Self Locating Datum Marker Buoys (SLDMBs). The SLDMBs are floating devices fitted with a GPS receiver and Iridium satellite transmitter which provide water current and sea temperature information and may be deployed by aircraft or vessels. The buoys transmit their position and sea temperature regularly directly to JRCC Australia. 33 SLDMBs were deployed in this search.

2.19 Due to the magnitude of the MH370 search areas, and taking into account the lessons learned during the previous search for Air France AF447 of 2009, a drift planning working group was established to supplement standard JRCC Australia drift planning methods. Its purpose was to ensure that international best methodology and consensus drift modelling techniques were applied to the MH370 search areas with the primary aims of:

    a) Providing the best possible area to locate floating debris

    b) Provide the ability to conduct “Reverse” drift backwards to provide an estimated splash point, should debris from the aircraft be located.

One of the 'information dark' areas of the search update protocols has been the current (or latest) positions of the 'Slam dams'.  It is, we believe pertinent information.  The buoys can be configured in a few ways; and, had there been a second and even a third deployment not only would the drift pattern data be an invaluable feed into the NWM data base, but a clearer picture of where wreckage may be travelling to could be determined.  Lack of wreckage is just one of several areas which it is believed could be revisited, prior to continuing search efforts.

There certainly are lots of theories (and pet rocks) out there, some valid, some not so much so.  However, lack of wreckage and lack of 'Slam dam' tracking data must now be placed at a higher priority level.

I'll leave it there for a while and recommend a refresher of the ICAO document.  Now that some of the hysteria has ebbed away and the 'theorists' have finished shouting their wares; perhaps it's time for thinking people to consider the available evidence and data and remodel their conclusions from that data, or lack thereof.

I do have one question – Where, precisely are our 'Slam Dams' now please?

[Peetwo]

Agenda Item 4: - HERE - Asia/Pacific and inter-regional SAR planning, coordination and cooperation: released by the ICAO in January 2015 is as close to official sanity as we are likely to get and it is worthy of consideration.  Two parts of this report have been carefully examined by SAR savvy associates; the questions they raised in January, still valid today were not worth pursuing – publicly – until the May deadline, to give the full benefit of doubt to the JRCC et al.

JRCC Drift Planning.

2.18 JRCC Australia uses its own custom designed drift modelling program called Net Water Movement (NWM). For conventional searches, this program has proved a valuable asset to search planning. Results from NWM are validated and compared against another proprietary drift modelling program and also validated as soon as possible through the deployment of Self Locating Datum Marker Buoys (SLDMBs). The SLDMBs are floating devices fitted with a GPS receiver and Iridium satellite transmitter which provide water current and sea temperature information and may be deployed by aircraft or vessels. The buoys transmit their position and sea temperature regularly directly to JRCC Australia. 33 SLDMBs were deployed in this search.

2.19 Due to the magnitude of the MH370 search areas, and taking into account the lessons learned during the previous search for Air France AF447 of 2009, a drift planning working group was established to supplement standard JRCC Australia drift planning methods. Its purpose was to ensure that international best methodology and consensus drift modelling techniques were applied to the MH370 search areas with the primary aims of:

    a) Providing the best possible area to locate floating debris

    b) Provide the ability to conduct “Reverse” drift backwards to provide an estimated splash point, should debris from the aircraft be located.

I do have one question – Where, precisely are our 'Slam Dams' now please?

Excellent timing Old Tom with less than a week till the end of May and only two days till the ATSB fronts the RRAT Committee at Budget Estimates...

Caught this comment from Simon Gunson off the PT article - MH370 search part 2 nears end but is the answer in KL not Indian Ocean:

I have little appetite generally for conspiracy theories however if one can’t see conspiracy written all over it in the MH370 saga, then one just isn’t looking.


Unfortunately this conclusion is discredited not by the facts themselves, but more so by the rich fertile soil giving birth to so many lunatic assessments.

Just one example. ATSB had a prediction that debris from MH370 occurring from an impact along the 7th Arc would deposit on the west coast of Sumatra after 123 days or about 9th July 2014.

When that did not happen they should have then concluded there was something wrong in their own assumptions, but what did they actually do?

Instead of reviewing those assumptions investigators contracted a bathymetric survey to continue what they must have realised by then was just a charade to pretend they were looking for MH370.

The ATSB has dismissed all other conclusions and a raft of other evidence in dogged determination to prove just one theory, which they themselves have now disproven.

 
Now from the Gunson's webpage here it is quite obvious that he has spent some considerable time & effort analysing all available data on the possible drift pattern for any MH370 debris in the current SIO search area. 

"..On 27 March the JIT team in Malaysia headed by MAS pilot Lim Jit Koon and senior civil aviation official Ahmad Nizar Zolfakar demanded that the JACC abandon efforts to recover or examine objects from that debris field and shift the search north..."

The above quote highlights the major issue with the current ATSB drift modelling program (being flawed) when we all know the visual air search was bizarrely abandoned prior to full verification of all satellite spotted possible debris targets. 

Another slightly less major issue with the NWM is that it is based on finding debris that you can reverse drift analysis to narrow down/refine a search area. This methodology is moot if you can't find any debris in the first place.

However by definition we already have a defined ATSB - best guess - search area so why wouldn't they use the available technology (i.e. SLDMBs) to help verify/increase the probability that this 'best guess' is in fact where MH370 now lies??

Although I can't find any record, maybe this has occurred and the Fugro ships have been  dispersing SLDMBs along the length of the 7th arc ATSB search area. Hopefully this also occurred again on or close to the anniversary of the MH370 disappearance and on the same tidal cycle for the estimated splashdown/water impact of MH370.

In terms of cost I would have thought - when you consider the bucket of money so far - that this would be a small outlay in the grand scheme of things. The information derived from such an exercise would not be wasted and would be invaluable for any future SAR missions carried out in the SIO.

If this exercise did occur I cannot see why this information is not on the public record? If it didn't occur - why not? To give no explanation lends more to the growing view (see Gunson quote above) that the whole ATSB SIO is merely an expensive charade to appease the NOK and the greater world human interest at large.

MTF..P2  




  

[aussie500]

The original drift datum buoys were released by AMSA in the more southern search area they abandoned so quickly, and the area where the false pings were. I doubt the ATSB ever released anything in the current area, or they would have realized nothing would drift towards West Sumatra, it would be scattered all over Australia long before now. So I really doubt they will be releasing an accurate drift model for their 7th arc. It would just prove they were looking in the wrong place. They are probably still looking for an expert who will say otherwise.

That we have such a great drift modelling program and that the ATSB came up with that woeful tale about West Sumatra are completely contradictory. The ATSB seems to have gone and found their own variety of expert on drift models.

The French sat sighting north of the original batch was a dead whale, It was large, and white, with lots of other fish and whales in the area no doubt.
https://twitter.com/PDChina/status/44808...96/photo/1
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-24/ma...th/5340338

CSB Brilliant tracked that down since she was in the area on her way to where HMAS Success had been a few days before and where Xuelong was currently investigating sightings made by the aerial search. There were also from the 27th 3 Chinese warships in that area that were not sending AIS data.

http://www.ihsmaritime360.com/article/12...370-search
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/world/...320543.htm

They did not leave when the search was moved North, but finished what they were doing. Most of them did not get there till the official Australian search was already moved north.

Some descriptions of some of the aerial sightings in that southern search area, none of which were photographed, or mentioned in any official report I ever saw.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/...209817.htm
http://www.northernargus.com.au/story/21...for-mh370/

http://www.smh.com.au/world/malaysia-air...35e3d.html

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/mh370-press-br...14741.html

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2014/s3973122.htm

https://www.facebook.com/AustralianMarit...23/?type=1

ATSB ignored the original area in their reports, were more interested in searching north, so that is what they concentrated on. Hardly an unbiased view of things.

I think an eyewitness sighting of something that could be debris is far more reliable that what a satellite can show on the surface, anything can look white on the surface in a sat image, whales, fish splashes, clouds that look solid, eruptions, underwater gasses.
While there was some very interesting things seen in the sat images from that area, none of them turned up in the media. And unlike the northern area they searched, or the current 7th arc which is still crossed by a lot of ships, that more southern area is pretty much deserted most of the time. Not as likely to be full of rubbish.

So the original Aussie search was derailed by a dead whale, recalculations that proved to be wrong, false pings and apparently someones insistence that the search be moved North. Currently they have super glued the search to that 7th arc which personally I think is just another effort to delay or not find what they are supposedly looking for.
I jumped on the conspiracy wagon a long time ago, and concluded it was a cover up.

I am a bit late, bit long winded and this is not exactly the question I would have asked if I had the ATSB lined up in my sights but here it is. You can save it for next time, this will be going on for a while yet.

The only thing you can say with any confidence is that MH370 flew through that 7th arc, she was still in the air. The BFO is not reliable, a B777 is not likely to take a sudden dive and drop like a rock when it has been in stable flight, and with doubts about what the primary radar was actually tracking and how long the fuel lasted, why not just follow their preferred routes (ATSB and Inmarsat) past the 7th arc. Which will lead them back to the area the Aussies abandoned on the 27th March. Why not when the weather fines up again take a slow fishing trip back towards the area the underwater search should have been started in, if things had not been quickly shifted north, for a wild goose chase.

Because that area they abandoned looked a whole lot more interesting than any where else they have looked. Even without any mad Tomnod taggers bugging them for why they never looked at her preferred spot with the real interesting wreckage.

[Kharon]

Neither late, nor long winded.  Welcome breath of fresh, calm, logical air.

Your complimentary Choc Frog is in the cyber mail... .

[Simon_Gunson]

The trouble with Chinese whispers is they tend to have a life of their own; take the story - unbeknownst to us downunda folk - that somehow filtered across the pacific, across mainland USA and into the Big Apple, all apparently while we were sleeping...

Here 'tis from the New York Times:

Australia Says Hunt for Missing MH370 Jet May Be Called Off Soon

By REUTERS
MARCH 1, 2015, 4:04 P.M. E.S.T.

CANBERRA — The search for missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 cannot go on forever, Australia's deputy prime minister said, and discussions are already under way between Australia, China and Malaysia as to whether to call off the hunt within weeks.

No trace has been found of the Boeing 777 aircraft, which disappeared a year ago this week carrying 239 passengers and crew, in what has become one of the greatest mysteries in aviation history.

MH370 vanished from radar screens shortly after taking off from Kuala Lumpur, bound for Beijing, early on March 8. Investigators believe it was flown thousands of miles off course before eventually crashing into the Indian Ocean.

The search of a rugged 60,000 sq km (23,000 sq mile) patch of sea floor some 1,600 km (1,000 miles) west of the Australian city of Perth, which experts believe is the plane's most likely resting place, will likely be finished by May.

Australian Deputy Prime Minister Warren Truss told Reuters that a decision would have to be taken well before then as to whether to continue into the vast 1.1 million sq km area around the primary search zone if nothing has been found.

Discussions had already begun about what to do in that event, including the possibility that the search might be called off, said Truss, who is also transport minister.

"For many of the families onboard, they won't have closure unless they have certain knowledge that the aircraft has been located and perhaps their loved ones' remains have been recovered," Truss said in an interview.

"We clearly cannot keep searching forever, but we want to do everything that's reasonably possible to locate the aircraft."

Truss compared the search, already the most expensive of its kind, with another great mystery from an earlier era, the hunt for missing aviation pioneer Amelia Earhart, who disappeared in 1937 during an early attempt to circumnavigate the globe.

Four vessels owned by Dutch engineering firm Fugro, equipped with sophisticated underwater drones, have searched about 40 percent of the previously unmapped expanse of sea floor that has been designated the highest priority.

DECISION TIME
Australia and Malaysia contributed to evenly split the costs, estimated at up to A$52 million ($40.5 million), but Truss warned that continuing the search beyond that area would be impossible without more international help.

"We put in the amount of money that we believed was necessary to do this job well and thoroughly with the best available equipment," he said. "We have to make other decisions, then, about how long the search should continue."

      
Then it filters backwards & forwards evolving again &.. again, till the latest on twitter is that it will be quite literally a matter of weeks till the official MH370 search will be called off...sheesh talk about snowball effect...

Fortunately here in Oz - in aviation journalist circles - we have our resident Tendentious Blogger Ben Sandilands who is very good at sifting out the facts from the bollocks, so here is his take on the NYT MH370 apparent scoop: 


[url=http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2015/03/02/australia-is-keen-to-quit-mh370-search-soon-but-why/][/url]....

Which is all very interesting, however IMO one thing is for certain the MH370 exit strategy by the JACC/ATSB/OzGovt is now firmly in play....

MTF...

Peetwo

Back in April 2015 I advised Danica Weeks, who was fretting at the imminent cancellation of the seabed search that MH370 is actually insured with Allianz Germany for search & recovery costs up to US$2.5 billion. I suggested to her that relatives should agitate for the Australian government to access those funds.

Danica will not be happy with me for disclosing this, as she asked me not to, but she wrote to Dr Truss asking him why these insurance funds could not be used to extend the search?

As I understand it Dr Truss was rather cornered by her question and wrote back to her along the lines of, leave it with me, but mention this to no one else. .

They then announced they would not cancel the search but continue with it however there would be no more searching after 2016.

Well my apologies to Danica. Congratualtions to her that she convinced Truss not to cancel it in May 2015 (as was being threatened) however a mere reprieve until 2016 does not merit keeping silent to placate Dr Truss.

Tony Abbott and Warren Truss somehow seem to think the Australian taxpayer should not be compensated by insurance money and that the taxpayer need not be told about insurance funds anyway. Of course the people should know and shame on Truss for not claiming search costs back from MAS who can claim against their own insurance.

[Simon_Gunson]

An interesting point was brought up at work the other day.  Since the disappearance of mh370 we have been lied to from the get go.  Malaysia did not see anything on their radar so they had to make it up.  Did you know they have an ATC simulator that can run a fictional a/c to make it say what they want?? Is this what they did to match up with the IMST data?  The point is they were all asleep, didn't notice they had missing plane til after the fact.  Then they had to make up radar path to fit the IMST data, which btw was interpreted wrong, but thats a whole other story I can't get into right now.

Why did Malaysia let the US force their hand and the push the search to the SIO?  Why didn't Malaysia keep searching in SCS & GoT, while the Aussies searched to where they thought the plane went according to the data, which was the only thing they were basing that on?  Why did the US officials CONFIRM the cell phone pinged a tower?  Again one more false piece of info to push the narrative the plane turned back, and what about the mayday call received by Utapao air base for emergency landing due to cabin decompression?  The Factual report that just came out wasn't so factual after all, it was missing key items that were in the first report, aka the radar data!!  hmmmm

The so-called 7th arc that they are focusing on in the SIO, also runs right through the SCS where the plane actually first disappeared, munch on that one for awhile.
I have believe  from the get go that the radar was pure BS from the start, many intelligent folks have proved that it was indeed false, yet so many experts ran with it and then based their assumptions on it, hence the wild good chase in the SIO.

So who has the agenda in this scenario?  First Malaysia lied, then bad luck came their way - mh17 and monsoon flooding more bad news for Malaysia along with a corrupt government.  Then factor in the US role in this, pushing the SIO by announcing the IMST data from the whitehouse when Hishy denied it.  Then also US official coming out with the cell phone pinging a tower.  Now US is being plagued by tornadoes, clashes between black people and police forces all over the country causing unrest everywhere.  Then we have the lovely ATSB and their cronies....who have been in the spotlight lately with the whole Pel-Air cover up, and mh370 or lack of.  Millions of $$ wasted in a search going nowhere fast.  Mr. Angus Houston didn't stay long after the ping pong episode because he knew it was a farce.  Who is running this side show here anyhow?  Not one shred of real evidence has proved this plane went down there, yet the bogus search goes on getting the mapping done of that part of the ocean that had never been scanned before.

Now the Aussies are being hit by major storms affecting everyone, high winds and flooding, very scary stuff indeed.  The point I'm trying to make is KARMA baby.  It seems as though governments don't care about the actual people who voted them in to their positions in the first place, yet they do things say and do things they shouldn't but get away with it because well, they are the government.  So its the people who are suffering from all the government mistakes, because if Karma is a bitch, then Malaysia, USA and Australia are getting it ten-fold.  This was the topic of conversation at work and I'd never looked at this way before, some more thoughts to ponder.

Ok off my soapbox again......

Jackie, much as I sympathise with many points you raise, the story of MH370 is a tangled enough web without trying to link it to another web of lies about MH17. You need clarity of thinking to unravel one ball of lies so don't entangle it with another.

My efforts have been to discard as many irrelevant points as possible until the truth crystalised. another term for that is Occam's Razor.

Very early on I decided that the oil rig sighting was credible and the radar sightings were not. I do not believe it went down in the SCS. I do believe that it flew south for 7+ hours, but I reject the Malacca straits detour. I think it is a conspiracy to cover up a cock-up.

Historically during the first 4 days Malaysia was still looking off the coast of Vietnam and it was INMARSAT who were lobbying hard to persuade Malaysia to look west, not east.

Once malaysia was convinced by INMARSAT that MH370 had turned off course and kept flying for several more hours, then Malaysia first made up a claim that MH370 flew IGARI-VAMPI-GIVAL-IGREX, also that it passed near Pelau Perak at 18:40 UTC. When asked to corroborate that with radar data, the RMAF could not do so and then attacked the story which the RMAF itself had leaked to the press.

Then came a new leak this time from the Lido hotel in Beijing claiming MH370 was seen by "Butterworth" radar flying over Pelau Perak at 18:02 UTC across VAMPI to reach MEKAR at 18:22 UTC.

Funny how amnesia works? In March 2015 they suddenly remembered another set of radar sightings never before mentioned claiming MH370 flew across Malaysia from Kota Bharu to reach penang at 17:52 before turning towards Pelau Perak. This time they suddenly remembered that radar saw MH370 flying towards Penang at 594kts.... Well sorry but you would need an enormous jetstream tailwind to achieve that. You would also need to fly at an incredibly high altitude, such that radar in Thailand and Indonesia couldn't possibly not have seen this, but that is the whole point. According to the 2015 "FI" report, no radar other than malaysian radar saw this incredibly fast high altitude flight.

All one can say to that is bollocks.

The Malacca straits detour never happened. The satellite data was not spoofed deliberately, but the investigators have miscalculated the BTO values because decompression altered the signal path delay.

When metal and electrolytes in capacitors are chilled to temperatures at 35,000 feet the speed of signals passing through MH370's avionics shortened and they never accounted in calculations for this huge error in BTO radii. that is why the 7th Arc is 315nm further away from the satellite.

[Peetwo]

So the original Aussie search was derailed by a dead whale, recalculations that proved to be wrong, false pings and apparently someones insistence that the search be moved North. Currently they have super glued the search to that 7th arc which personally I think is just another effort to delay or not find what they are supposedly looking for.
But jumped on the conspiracy wagon a long time ago, and concluded it was a cover up.

I am a bit late, bit long winded and this is not exactly the question I would have asked if I had the ATSB lined up in my sights but here it is. You can save it for next time, this will be going on for a while yet.

The only thing you can say with any confidence is that MH370 flew through that 7th arc, she was still in the air. The BFO is not reliable, a B777 is not likely to take a sudden dive and drop like a rock when it has been in stable flight, and with doubts about what the primary radar was actually tracking and how long the fuel lasted, why not just follow their preferred routes (ATSB and Inmarsat) past the 7th arc. Which will lead them back to the area the Aussies abandoned on the 27th March. Why not when the weather fines up again take a slow fishing trip back towards the area the underwater search should have been started in, if things had not been quickly shifted north, for a wild goose chase.

Because that area they abandoned looked a whole lot more interesting than any where else they have looked. Even without any mad Tomnod taggers bugging them for why they never looked at her preferred spot with the real interesting wreckage.

Excellent 1st post aussie500 & I agree with Kharon, not at all long winded. Also to Simon Gunson your input is most welcome - but be warned play nice! 

Even if we agree to disagree on certain aspects of how, why or by whom MH370 disappeared into apparent oblivion, the common theme of all posters on this & other MH370 threads should be to try and sort the wheat from the chaff & come to highest probability theory/theories etc. on where the hell Boeing 777-2H6ER, serial number 28420, registration 9M-MRO ended up.

MTF...P2

[Simon_Gunson]

Roger that Peetwo, no.2 in the circuit behind manners, make a short approach before the Boeing on long finals.

[Peetwo]

Roger that Peetwo, no.2 in the circuit behind manners, make a short approach before the Boeing on long finals.

Thank you SG...

For those people interested here is the link for Senate Estimates this arvo where Dolan (& Foley I presume) are slated for an 17:45 AEST (07:45 UTC) appearance before the Senators:

Senate Estimates viewing today...


27/05/2015

9:00AM - 11:00PM AEST

Senate, Rural & Regional Affairs & Transport Legislation Committee (Senate Estimates)

HI  LO

Or via ParlView

 Infrastructure and Regional Development portfolio program: (PDF 81KB)

  
MTF...P2

[Peetwo]

Roger that Peetwo, no.2 in the circuit behind manners, make a short approach before the Boeing on long finals.

Thank you SG...

For those people interested here is the link for Senate Estimates this arvo where Dolan (& Foley I presume) are slated for an 17:45 AEST (07:45 UTC) appearance before the Senators:

Senate Estimates viewing today...


27/05/2015

9:00AM - 11:00PM AEST

Senate, Rural & Regional Affairs & Transport Legislation Committee (Senate Estimates)

HI  LO

Or via ParlView

 Infrastructure and Regional Development portfolio program: (PDF 81KB)

  
MTF...P2

Update - Estimates is running 45 minutes behind. ATSB may not be till after dinner break, which is between 18:45-19:45 AEST.

[Gobbledock]

Naughty Heff, off schedule again! He will receive another 'dipshit letter' if he isn't careful!!

[Peetwo]

Naughty Heff, off schedule again! He will receive another 'dipshit letter' if he isn't careful!!

Yep confirmed gone to dinner back at 19:30 with Beaker & Co, so they have made up 15min. Gobbles will that appease the 'dipshit' senior public servant?? Hmm...I smell a rat with this 'anonymous' PS, like you said GD it has to be someone who is not currently in the gun sights of the Senate Committee or who is untouchable. If you think it about that could include certain former Senior Public Servants, who are known to have the odd hissy fit...

[Peetwo]

Further Update: Due to delays with Infrastructure Australia  Estimates questioning the ATSB & ASA have been sent home to (presumably) appear AM tomorrow. CASA will be appearing after IA. 

[Simon_Gunson]

The elephant is in the room. Why is the Australian Government spending millions on this? Under ICAO Annex 13, we are not the State of Registry, not the State of the Operator and not the State of Manufacture. As the State of Occurrence is unknown, why are we, with Beaker who is an international embarrassment, trying to pretend to lead the way? Interesting that Boeing has not taken a leading role in this with the NTSB!!!
Someone knows more than we do!

I'm not going to try and speculate or discuss potential causes here. There are plenty of experts on satellite technology etc than me here. What I do question, as per my previous post, is why ICAO haven't formed a suitable investigation team to lead the charge. ICAO have plenty of good history in putting qualified experts together for accidents with countries who don't have the necessary skills i.e Malayasia. The Gulf Air A320 off Bahrain was a good example. Also, accidents into Kathmandu with Thai and Pakistan. Beaker certainly does not fit the bill. He's not capable of investigating a coffee spill on the flight deck, yet alone a fatal prang! ICAO WHERE ARE YOU? DO YOU HAVE FAITH IN THE ATSB???? I don't, nor does any qualified accident investigator world wide. I've spoken to the heads of the NTSB and FAA and they are literally rolling around the floor in laughter every time our clown Beaker opens his mouth.

Shucks for a moment there Sheikh yer Booti when you mentioned investigating a coffee spill, I thought you were referring to the 2007 cockpit fire in ZK-NGK when the crew spilled coffee on the pedestal? 

But then I got a grip and realised you're right, ATSB probably couldn't investigate a coffee spill

[Kharon]

Not happy to say it; not at all - but, We told you, we warned you, time and time again.  

HERE - and - HERE-

Milne claims in the letter that the material he had enclosed “generates irreversible damage to the credibility of the Australian Government and Inmarsat, a British satellite firm”. 

The letter includes seven questions posed to the Australian Government by the Asove Global Human Rights Team. The seven questions work with six references attached. 

The six references, labelled ATSB Impact Theory, according to Milne, “will clearly demonstrate how specific officials in the Government of Australia have now attempted a fabricated effort to corrupt the factual truth about MH370 by making elaborate claims that require extensive corroborative evidence to validate”. 

He argues that it’s doubtful that the Government of Australia will be able to answer the questions truthfully without creating additional levels of exposure that will further weaken their public credibility relative to the search for MH370.

“There’s little doubt that there should be a full and comprehensive explanation to all of the questions that have yet to be answered,” said Milne. “There are now almost desperate claims by the Government of Australia that MH370 disintegrated upon impact into the southern Indian Ocean in spite of never producing one single piece of corroborative physical evidence.” 

Now here's another nice mess you've got us into.  Put Angus back where he belongs and fire Dolan to regain even some semblance of dignity.  You know you want to.

[Gobbledock]

Norman Gunston said;

Interesting that Boeing has not taken a leading role in this with the NTSB!!!
Someone knows more than we do!

Very good point. It's one I thought of a few weeks ago but forgot to raise until now; why aren't Boeing involved, and involved in a very visible way?? I've never known Airbus or Boeing to not get involved in an event like this, especially when, on the surface, an aircraft failure can't be ruled out? And the noise coming from the NTSB is equally deafening! Something tells me that for some reason they at least know that mechanical or structural failure is not the cause. If that is true, exactly how do they know? And if they know, why the silence?

All that is missing from this farce is us getting word that Beaker has been spotted on Rottnest Island wearing a Hawaiin shirt and a pair of sluggers looking for Mh370 flotsam such as life jackets, sick bags and plastic forks.................

Somebody please give Julian Assange or Bradley Manning a keyboard so we can at least be told the truth!

[Kharon]

Another Choc Frog post from Aussie 500; trapped in the PM system, now on the board.......

aussie500 Wrote:

Well the roaring forties might swirl a round a lot, have a sink hole under the Great Australian Bight where things can get lost, but eventually they go east. Unlike our MH370 search.

I did a rough map of where all the ships had been, based on the actual images we got of the surface search, I never had access to the AIS data, but had been curious about something for a while and eventually got tired of waiting for Mike Chillet to look closer at the original search. It seems there was an error in Mikes data or someone had removed part of the info for HMAS Success, her March 25th stopover further south was missing.

https://twitter.com/aussie500/status/595057876227358721
https://twitter.com/MikeChillit/status/588897717142827008

AMSA themselves did a timeline of their SAR efforts.
http://www.amsa.gov.au/media/mh370-timeline/

Nothing the ATSB or JACC have done since they took over have been of any use. They have some useful map data and made a few interesting discoveries, but have continually searched in the wrong locations. I do not believe they will go back to that search area they abandoned. They had plenty of incentive to return there, if they had their way I believe they were intending to keep moving the search north till they could dump it in Indonesia's lap. DigitalGlobe already had the images done for the next move further north when Inmarsat looked at the sat phone data and worked out MH370 had already been going south.

So the Aussies could hardly ignore, that MH370 would have gotten further south than their quickly whipped up calculations were showing. Something else sent the search astray before the Aussies got it anyway, and not just the primary radar and the Malaysians constant misinformation and attempts to direct the search in the wrong direction. They assumed the auto pilot was on, Malaysia lead them to believe that it or someone else was in control of the plane. If they were wrong, and MH370 attempted to turn back and just kept going in an almost straight line from IGARI, all these calculations everyone is arguing over are useless.

Why would Malaysia have insisted on the human intervention angle in the first place? 
Many are already suspicious of their primary radar info it took so long to come up with, their early information about moves like a fighter jet and flying low to avoid radar have already been tossed out. Although something near MH370 when it had its mishap could have been doing that. No mention in the factual report about any attempts to connect with a mobile phone tower in Penang. 

The ATSB is not going to rock the boat, certainly not going to say MH370 flew though Indonesian controlled air space. Or that any of them have been deliberately misleading 

>>    >>    >> THEN  <<  <<<   <<<


I am no plane expert, but I would say she drifted east, like everything else except the search. I would think the IG team will be the first to raise the question of what went wrong with the calculations, when this 7th arc thing fails to find anything.Tail winds and no autopilot will be near the top of the list.

And on the FMC, if anyone had programmed anything extra into it, would the Inmarsat data not have shown flight information? When the plane logged back on, there was no flight data sent.

[Peetwo]

Another Choc Frog post from Aussie 500; trapped in the PM system, now on the board.......

aussie500 Wrote:

Well the roaring forties might swirl a round a lot, have a sink hole under the Great Australian Bight where things can get lost, but eventually they go east. Unlike our MH370 search.

I did a rough map of where all the ships had been, based on the actual images we got of the surface search, I never had access to the AIS data, but had been curious about something for a while and eventually got tired of waiting for Mike Chillet to look closer at the original search. It seems there was an error in Mikes data or someone had removed part of the info for HMAS Success, her March 25th stopover further south was missing.

https://twitter.com/aussie500/status/595057876227358721
https://twitter.com/MikeChillit/status/588897717142827008

AMSA themselves did a timeline of their SAR efforts.
http://www.amsa.gov.au/media/mh370-timeline/

Nothing the ATSB or JACC have done since they took over have been of any use. They have some useful map data and made a few interesting discoveries, but have continually searched in the wrong locations. I do not believe they will go back to that search area they abandoned. They had plenty of incentive to return there, if they had their way I believe they were intending to keep moving the search north till they could dump it in Indonesia's lap. DigitalGlobe already had the images done for the next move further north when Inmarsat looked at the sat phone data and worked out MH370 had already been going south.

So the Aussies could hardly ignore, that MH370 would have gotten further south than their quickly whipped up calculations were showing. Something else sent the search astray before the Aussies got it anyway, and not just the primary radar and the Malaysians constant misinformation and attempts to direct the search in the wrong direction. They assumed the auto pilot was on, Malaysia lead them to believe that it or someone else was in control of the plane. If they were wrong, and MH370 attempted to turn back and just kept going in an almost straight line from IGARI, all these calculations everyone is arguing over are useless.

Why would Malaysia have insisted on the human intervention angle in the first place? 
Many are already suspicious of their primary radar info it took so long to come up with, their early information about moves like a fighter jet and flying low to avoid radar have already been tossed out. Although something near MH370 when it had its mishap could have been doing that. No mention in the factual report about any attempts to connect with a mobile phone tower in Penang. 

The ATSB is not going to rock the boat, certainly not going to say MH370 flew though Indonesian controlled air space. Or that any of them have been deliberately misleading 

>>    >>    >> THEN  <<  <<<   <<<


I am no plane expert, but I would say she drifted east, like everything else except the search. I would think the IG team will be the first to raise the question of what went wrong with the calculations, when this 7th arc thing fails to find anything.Tail winds and no autopilot will be near the top of the list.

And on the FMC, if anyone had programmed anything extra into it, would the Inmarsat data not have shown flight information? When the plane logged back on, there was no flight data sent.

aussie500 also made some interesting observations in regards to the Senate Estimates You Tube vid, where our resident MH370 super sleuth Beaker was again flapping his felt gums...   

Would be pretty inefficient having UAV's tracking some 7,000km back and forth from Christmas Island to the AMSA aerial search area. Do they make any that could do that and search once they got all the way down there? And the weather changes that rapidly get the thing all the way down there and probably have to bring it back.

The aerial search was conducted just fine, it was the underwater search that never happened in the original SIO area where things that could have been debris were seen and not picked up. Or the current underwater search, where nothing was seen and if it had ever been there would have washed up some where on Australian shores by now.

AUV's for the current underwater search I think would have been more efficient. And surely they could have had an extra ship to mind the AUV and collect the data while a ship returned to Fremantle. But the towed rigs are cheaper probably and can be used over winter and in rougher weather. But should have grilled Dolan to prove it, come up with some figures. This search is going to be going a while and looks unlikely to find what they are looking for. Prove he is efficiently spending all that money.

They should look at the drift data and sightings AMSA has, and go work out the most likely location back in the area they abandoned further south. At least something was seen down that way.

Although I'm not so sure about Angus anymore, I do concur with "K"- fire Dolan now!! Like aussie500 says they should revisit the original aerial search area and they should look at the drift data/sightings that AMSA has.

I would also suggest putting AMSA back in charge. They have far more knowledge & experience in a marine/SAR environment. Why anyone ever thought that putting Dolan & the ATSB in charge of the MH370 SIO underwater search was a good idea, is way beyond all sensible reason. Refer to the Sheikh posts above, the Muppet is a walking, talking liability.

MTF...P2

      

[Kharon]

Before you swallow any, and I do mean any of the Beaker glib, smug, dismissive, disingenuous frog-pooh on the MH 370 search, it would be wise to see where the international press and people who know what they are about are heading.

Blind Freddy himself predicted this, Beakers Mum read it in the tea leaves.  Aunty Pru has tried repeatedly to warn that the MH 370 spotlight needs to focus on the Malaysian government, the Malaysian aircraft and the Malaysian search efforts.  How long before Pel—Air is tied, irrevocably to a MH 370 cover up, Australia is a world recognised authority on how to do it and get away with the lumber – in broad daylight.  

Shame on Abbott, Truss and those who have advised them so very poorly.

See - the Paper-Li articles - HERE

This is a big job…I’m not an Australian taxpayer, but if I was, I would be very mad to see money being spent like that. 

The ATSB has routinely released detailed data from Go Phoenix, but has not done so for the Fugro ships. Experts have cobbled together an analysis from glimpses of the sonar use and data in videos and images posted to the ATSB website. From that, they've gauged the EdgeTech sonars are operating at swathes beyond their optimum capabilities, resulting in poor quality images and leaving side gaps in coverage.

"It makes no sense to be using fine scale tools to cover a massive area; it is like mowing an entire wheat field with a household lawnmower," said Rob McCallum, a vice-president at Williamson & Associate. 

Food for thought - act -before it is far too late to save face.

Toot toot.