Al Fentanyl (UP) - "My opinion only". - Choc Frog.
"Having once started a takeoff roll with full left rudder trim wound in, after a series of OEI approaches, I can make the following observations:
"The trim was visually checked by both pilots, the square white indicator at the end of travel looks - at a glance - very much like the square white indicator at the centre of travel."
"Through about 50kt, the aircraft was drifting left and could not be managed with the full strength of the pilots leg input which is considerable. This is well before take-off speed and I believe it highly unlikely that the incident pilot was in the same situation and still allowed the aircraft to accelerate to take-off speed. In fact I doubt whether he could have physically held it on the runway strip long enough to even get to take-off speed."
"The situation was only examined in a SIM. It was not trialled in a real aircraft. I have also tried it in the same SIM and found it relatively easy to hold direction, very much different to the aircraft."
Alas, dear Al, not just your humble opinion. It stands as the opinion of the many B200 qualified pilots Aunt Pru can reach out to. I was, just 15 minutes ago, sitting with just under 8000 collective hours command experience in the peerless King Air. We sat together to discuss the results of a 'survey' we did through the PAIN network of 'qualified' experienced pilots on the aircraft type. I will not regurgitate the 'data'; it is sufficient to say that your opinion is mirrored by about 100 Be20 pilots. I can't begin to count the hours on type, nor was the question asked. I have about 2000 hours on type and have held a C&T qualification for same. I have never, not ever once seen any other reaction to a 'full rudder trim' scenario - bar 'coals off' : brakes on; and, the WTD is going on question.
After landing: item 5 – Trim - SET
Before take off – item 5 Trim tabs - SET
A professional pilot does not (or should not) need any additional 'ex- checklist' (mnemonics). Post flight check list calls for trim reset; pre flight checks call up trim check. There are a few (several few) honest enough to own up to having forgotten the humble rudder trim reset after landing; yours truly included (long story). I and my fellow sinners spotted the sin at about 40 knots- many at even even less speed.
However; and here's the rub: in any normal flight configuration the rudder trim off-set is so slight, depending on the airframe operated; that even when the promulgated 'reset to zero' is neglected; through two separate check lists – it is very much a 'something – nothing'. Full rudder trim is a very serious amount of trim to leave on – even after an asymmetric approach and landing event (been there – done that).
For the ATSB boss to declare that 'full' rudder trim was 'on' prior to take off is not only risible; unrealistic and 90% not probable, leaves one wondering Why? – Is it a cock-up/ flawed investigation; or, a cover up to protect the DoIT and it's murky dealings in the great airport asset sell off (rip-off); protection for big money developers; and, of those they bind 'close'? There is as yet no reply or response to the inquiry into the 'development' program for Essendon. Not from anyone; not a single word. I wonder why.
There are two lines of inquiry the American interests could examine. The California code for tall building about airports is one; the other could be for the FAA data base related to 'out of trim' events for the Be20 which resulted in fatal 'mysterious' accident. Be a short list I'd reckon......
![[Image: when-pigs-fly-group-picture-id178864585?...z8F-wDBJA=]](https://media.istockphoto.com/photos/when-pigs-fly-group-picture-id178864585?k=6&m=178864585&s=612x612&w=0&h=68vl6uyjOFTkHr6l7IMHxQW-a1kj8ICGcTz8F-wDBJA=)
"Having once started a takeoff roll with full left rudder trim wound in, after a series of OEI approaches, I can make the following observations:
"The trim was visually checked by both pilots, the square white indicator at the end of travel looks - at a glance - very much like the square white indicator at the centre of travel."
"Through about 50kt, the aircraft was drifting left and could not be managed with the full strength of the pilots leg input which is considerable. This is well before take-off speed and I believe it highly unlikely that the incident pilot was in the same situation and still allowed the aircraft to accelerate to take-off speed. In fact I doubt whether he could have physically held it on the runway strip long enough to even get to take-off speed."
"The situation was only examined in a SIM. It was not trialled in a real aircraft. I have also tried it in the same SIM and found it relatively easy to hold direction, very much different to the aircraft."
Alas, dear Al, not just your humble opinion. It stands as the opinion of the many B200 qualified pilots Aunt Pru can reach out to. I was, just 15 minutes ago, sitting with just under 8000 collective hours command experience in the peerless King Air. We sat together to discuss the results of a 'survey' we did through the PAIN network of 'qualified' experienced pilots on the aircraft type. I will not regurgitate the 'data'; it is sufficient to say that your opinion is mirrored by about 100 Be20 pilots. I can't begin to count the hours on type, nor was the question asked. I have about 2000 hours on type and have held a C&T qualification for same. I have never, not ever once seen any other reaction to a 'full rudder trim' scenario - bar 'coals off' : brakes on; and, the WTD is going on question.
After landing: item 5 – Trim - SET
Before take off – item 5 Trim tabs - SET
A professional pilot does not (or should not) need any additional 'ex- checklist' (mnemonics). Post flight check list calls for trim reset; pre flight checks call up trim check. There are a few (several few) honest enough to own up to having forgotten the humble rudder trim reset after landing; yours truly included (long story). I and my fellow sinners spotted the sin at about 40 knots- many at even even less speed.
However; and here's the rub: in any normal flight configuration the rudder trim off-set is so slight, depending on the airframe operated; that even when the promulgated 'reset to zero' is neglected; through two separate check lists – it is very much a 'something – nothing'. Full rudder trim is a very serious amount of trim to leave on – even after an asymmetric approach and landing event (been there – done that).
For the ATSB boss to declare that 'full' rudder trim was 'on' prior to take off is not only risible; unrealistic and 90% not probable, leaves one wondering Why? – Is it a cock-up/ flawed investigation; or, a cover up to protect the DoIT and it's murky dealings in the great airport asset sell off (rip-off); protection for big money developers; and, of those they bind 'close'? There is as yet no reply or response to the inquiry into the 'development' program for Essendon. Not from anyone; not a single word. I wonder why.
There are two lines of inquiry the American interests could examine. The California code for tall building about airports is one; the other could be for the FAA data base related to 'out of trim' events for the Be20 which resulted in fatal 'mysterious' accident. Be a short list I'd reckon......