Not our Indaba – however.
AMAS v RRAT. Round 1.
No video of this hit out; the Hansard is published, about 20 pages of solid reading to plough through. Nothing whatsoever to with matters aeronautical – but of interest as a guide to what we may expect when CASA gets a turn. I know not many will read the Hansard – but for me it was (a) a required task and (b) it provides an insight to how Government agencies ‘think’ and operate; so in that sense, valuable. However, I have selected a few passages of play which reflect the Committee’s mood – in the matter being discussed. The session should be a wake up call for the ASA, ATSB and CASA, IMO there is a push on to upset the cosy, easy going attitude in which these agencies have cocooned themselves for far too long. It could just be that that the insulation against serious questioning, with venom is failing and the isolated splendour of ‘Safety’ as an endless trough is ending. We can only hope. Brockman, Gallacher, Patrick and Sterle were not there to kill spiders; it was good work by a fine team. Some of Glenn Sterle’s bowling is worth a few minutes, the closing remarks in particular.
Anyway – FWIW:–
ACTING CHAIR: because we're going to be back here, guaranteed—safer bet than Winx. Colleagues, if you want to have a chat outside, we can suspend for a minute and have a chat.
Mr Kinley: Thanks, Senator. I would like to make a short opening statement. But, before I do that, we did, of course, listen to the hearings in Perth for this inquiry. I would like to say that we apologise for not doing better in keeping our communications open with Mrs Nicole Mills. We did listen, in particular, to her evidence, and we will certainly do better in future. We will follow up on her suggestion to nominate a contact officer in such cases as this. What I do need to work out is what would be the appropriate training for our officers to be able to handle those sorts of issues properly and sensitively.
Prosecuting matters under the national law though remains complex and difficult, and AMSA recently met with the CDPP to discuss these ongoing issues. One matter we will be seeking legislative amendments for is to allow at least two years to commence proceedings rather than the one year now allowed under the Crimes Act for offences warranting less than six months imprisonment. We also suggest that the offences under the act be examined to consider if they're adequate for a matter involving a fatality. In this regard I would draw the committee's attention to the uncommenced amendments to the national law act that were intended to align the act with the health and safety laws with similar offences and penalties.
ACTING CHAIR: If you want to overrule me, that's fine. We'll do a count very quickly. I want everything on the record. We have deaths that have not been investigated by this mob, and all we've seen—you can smile as much as you like, Mr McKenzie, and whisper in your mate's ear or whatever you want to do. You people really are on the verge—I tell you: if I was the minister, none of you would even be sitting here unless you started owning up to whose incompetence led to this.
ACTING CHAIR: Mr Kinley, I'll talk to you, as the CEO, about what we have learnt recently in your term as the CEO, taking over under the national law. What brought this to our attention was the very unfortunate death of Mr Mills. As I said earlier, we're not going to stop here, because we know there have been so many more. For the families out there I'm going to mention Glen Wilson; Ryan Donohue; Ian Thompson; Paul McVeigh; Leila Trott; Murray Turner; Mason Carter; Chad Fairley; Andrew Kelly; Allan Russell; John Rodgers; Matthew Roberts; David Chivers; Martin Cunningham; one person on the Seabring; three people on a night raid, Luke Murray, Daniel Bradshaw and Tim Macpherson; Ben Leahy; Adam Bidner; Adam Hoffman; Zach Feeney; Chris Sammut; Eli Tonks; Harry Evans; Shalina Abdul Hussien plus about twenty more people who I'm not able to name, because no-one seems to collect the information. All these people have been killed on Australian vessels since AMSA took responsibility for the national system in 2013.
After what we learnt about the death of Mr Mills, I have absolutely no confidence that AMSA has done everything that it could have done to secure safety. I've got no confidence about the safety of workers or members of the public on other vessels. You could say that you've inherited a system that is a basket case, poor safety culture—all of that. What I don't understand where the plan is to improve this situation is. Looking at these numbers, they have got to be about the same as, or worse than, other dangerous industries, and it has been a priority industry for focus and action for Safe Work Australia. They have industry plans; they have safety codes of practice. I ask: where is your action and focus? All I see is vessels cobbling together—in my own words—their own safety management systems. I believe a lot of rules are made up, and they put as many people as they like on a vessel. If they don't like the basic rules that are there, I'm told they can go and talk to their mates on the AMSA board and get an exemption. When they do get in trouble or someone is killed, in my view, AMSA looks the other way.
I looked at your annual report hoping to find something to indicate that you have a plan. I'll talk about the chairman's report. I see that you have a new computer system, that there are plans to maintain your workforce, to deal with oil spills, for ship-sourced garbage, for new navigation systems, and that there have been important meetings in London. There is nothing about fatalities until you get to page 54. On page 54 it tells me that there were nine fatalities just last year, and this is not a huge industry. This was in your KPIs, coded amber, which I saw on page 12 is classified by AMSA as a 'minor' issue. There's nothing in there about what you're going to do to fix it. On page 23 it says that operators will be encouraged to take responsibility for safety outcomes. I can tell you all that that's not a plan to save people; that's a plan for more deaths, like the unfortunate death of Mr Mills.
People are dying and it looks to me like no-one is held accountable and, worse, no-one thinks that it's a problem that should be fixed. I hope that you're not willing to look the other way. I believe the minister has been trying to look the other way—that's my view, not the committee's—but I'm not going to look the other way and I know that the committee won't either. Election or no election, as I said earlier, we will get to the bottom of this. We will be looking at your marine orders, your legislation and your operation—everything that you do or don't do—and we will fix this. I'll leave it at that.
That concludes today's hearing. With the approval of my colleagues, we've set 15 April for questions on notice. Thank you very much.
Toot – toot….
AMAS v RRAT. Round 1.
No video of this hit out; the Hansard is published, about 20 pages of solid reading to plough through. Nothing whatsoever to with matters aeronautical – but of interest as a guide to what we may expect when CASA gets a turn. I know not many will read the Hansard – but for me it was (a) a required task and (b) it provides an insight to how Government agencies ‘think’ and operate; so in that sense, valuable. However, I have selected a few passages of play which reflect the Committee’s mood – in the matter being discussed. The session should be a wake up call for the ASA, ATSB and CASA, IMO there is a push on to upset the cosy, easy going attitude in which these agencies have cocooned themselves for far too long. It could just be that that the insulation against serious questioning, with venom is failing and the isolated splendour of ‘Safety’ as an endless trough is ending. We can only hope. Brockman, Gallacher, Patrick and Sterle were not there to kill spiders; it was good work by a fine team. Some of Glenn Sterle’s bowling is worth a few minutes, the closing remarks in particular.
Anyway – FWIW:–
ACTING CHAIR: because we're going to be back here, guaranteed—safer bet than Winx. Colleagues, if you want to have a chat outside, we can suspend for a minute and have a chat.
Mr Kinley: Thanks, Senator. I would like to make a short opening statement. But, before I do that, we did, of course, listen to the hearings in Perth for this inquiry. I would like to say that we apologise for not doing better in keeping our communications open with Mrs Nicole Mills. We did listen, in particular, to her evidence, and we will certainly do better in future. We will follow up on her suggestion to nominate a contact officer in such cases as this. What I do need to work out is what would be the appropriate training for our officers to be able to handle those sorts of issues properly and sensitively.
Prosecuting matters under the national law though remains complex and difficult, and AMSA recently met with the CDPP to discuss these ongoing issues. One matter we will be seeking legislative amendments for is to allow at least two years to commence proceedings rather than the one year now allowed under the Crimes Act for offences warranting less than six months imprisonment. We also suggest that the offences under the act be examined to consider if they're adequate for a matter involving a fatality. In this regard I would draw the committee's attention to the uncommenced amendments to the national law act that were intended to align the act with the health and safety laws with similar offences and penalties.
ACTING CHAIR: If you want to overrule me, that's fine. We'll do a count very quickly. I want everything on the record. We have deaths that have not been investigated by this mob, and all we've seen—you can smile as much as you like, Mr McKenzie, and whisper in your mate's ear or whatever you want to do. You people really are on the verge—I tell you: if I was the minister, none of you would even be sitting here unless you started owning up to whose incompetence led to this.
ACTING CHAIR: Mr Kinley, I'll talk to you, as the CEO, about what we have learnt recently in your term as the CEO, taking over under the national law. What brought this to our attention was the very unfortunate death of Mr Mills. As I said earlier, we're not going to stop here, because we know there have been so many more. For the families out there I'm going to mention Glen Wilson; Ryan Donohue; Ian Thompson; Paul McVeigh; Leila Trott; Murray Turner; Mason Carter; Chad Fairley; Andrew Kelly; Allan Russell; John Rodgers; Matthew Roberts; David Chivers; Martin Cunningham; one person on the Seabring; three people on a night raid, Luke Murray, Daniel Bradshaw and Tim Macpherson; Ben Leahy; Adam Bidner; Adam Hoffman; Zach Feeney; Chris Sammut; Eli Tonks; Harry Evans; Shalina Abdul Hussien plus about twenty more people who I'm not able to name, because no-one seems to collect the information. All these people have been killed on Australian vessels since AMSA took responsibility for the national system in 2013.
After what we learnt about the death of Mr Mills, I have absolutely no confidence that AMSA has done everything that it could have done to secure safety. I've got no confidence about the safety of workers or members of the public on other vessels. You could say that you've inherited a system that is a basket case, poor safety culture—all of that. What I don't understand where the plan is to improve this situation is. Looking at these numbers, they have got to be about the same as, or worse than, other dangerous industries, and it has been a priority industry for focus and action for Safe Work Australia. They have industry plans; they have safety codes of practice. I ask: where is your action and focus? All I see is vessels cobbling together—in my own words—their own safety management systems. I believe a lot of rules are made up, and they put as many people as they like on a vessel. If they don't like the basic rules that are there, I'm told they can go and talk to their mates on the AMSA board and get an exemption. When they do get in trouble or someone is killed, in my view, AMSA looks the other way.
I looked at your annual report hoping to find something to indicate that you have a plan. I'll talk about the chairman's report. I see that you have a new computer system, that there are plans to maintain your workforce, to deal with oil spills, for ship-sourced garbage, for new navigation systems, and that there have been important meetings in London. There is nothing about fatalities until you get to page 54. On page 54 it tells me that there were nine fatalities just last year, and this is not a huge industry. This was in your KPIs, coded amber, which I saw on page 12 is classified by AMSA as a 'minor' issue. There's nothing in there about what you're going to do to fix it. On page 23 it says that operators will be encouraged to take responsibility for safety outcomes. I can tell you all that that's not a plan to save people; that's a plan for more deaths, like the unfortunate death of Mr Mills.
People are dying and it looks to me like no-one is held accountable and, worse, no-one thinks that it's a problem that should be fixed. I hope that you're not willing to look the other way. I believe the minister has been trying to look the other way—that's my view, not the committee's—but I'm not going to look the other way and I know that the committee won't either. Election or no election, as I said earlier, we will get to the bottom of this. We will be looking at your marine orders, your legislation and your operation—everything that you do or don't do—and we will fix this. I'll leave it at that.
That concludes today's hearing. With the approval of my colleagues, we've set 15 April for questions on notice. Thank you very much.
Toot – toot….