[ventus45]

On the subject of "closing speed" ?

You want to talk about closing speed - as in near misses ................... ?

Try this on.


Confession time ................ gulp.


See figure 12 in
https://www.atsb.gov.au/media/4050593/se..._print.pdf

Then read:

(1) https://groups.google.com/d/msg/aus.avia..._hPLAJN_gJ
posted 8/12/2003
See the graphic on http://www.atsb.gov.au/aviation/editoria...avoid2.cfm and replace the single III-O with 4 x A4's.  It is very scary, I can assure you !






(2) https://groups.google.com/d/msg/aus.avia...8i1FptDNkJ
posted 10/12/2003

Not easy to chase down toilet paper, but A4's can hit you.  We were doing 50, they 350 approx, so 400 approx closure.  It was a thursday or friday, eleven fifty bright something,  back in the 70's.

I was up in a blanik pre-solo, they were tracking over Camden below CTA step (4,000 back then) into Sydney for a practice Navy Day fly past down the harbour.  It had been in the Notams etc, we all knew it.  In fact, it was me that was detailed that morning to go to the tower to get the printout off the old teleprinter.  I brought it back, both instructors and the tug pilot all read it, including me.

We were supposed to remain below 2000 between 11am and them passing overhead, but as Mr Murphy decrees, stuff ups occur.  I will not go into the details, but we were well above 2,000.  We had about 5 seconds in fact from visual on them as just black dots head to head closing fast, to the pass.  We rocked wings, praying for a sun glint.  Leader jinked left, then the others rippled over, quick smart, except the last guy, probably the new boy, slow.  Miss distance on him was 200 ft lateral, 50 ft below to our right.  As they passed we rolled left and dived.

A "once is enough" experience.

What worries me about E and see and avoid is relative speed, and relative manoeuvre capability.

Relative speed has been done to death, but there is not much comfort in seeing if you can't do anything worth the effort.  We had next to no effective manoeuvre capability, even rocking the wings was a full stick deal and not much roll rate at 50 in a blanik.  We could not miss them.  If they didn't see us, we probably may have hit, if not, it would have been bloody close, they were a few feet below us, I think.  A4's do roll a hell of a lot quicker than a blanik.  I wonder what the roll rate of a Dash-8 is on autopilot.

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Present Day -
It still pops into my head every now and then.
It is still scary !
The most lingering memory is "the noise".
You don't just hear it, you feel it !
Talk about shattering the serenity of the day !