[Peetwo]

OneSKY trough fund to contribute to ScoMo COVID-19 stimulus package??  

Have been monitoring the Mangalore crash thread on the UP which surprisingly, despite some heated exchanges, has not been closed (YET)?? 

There are a couple of main players, including Lead Balloon and Mr Approach, however the one that really perks my interest is Hoosten who seems to have a very intimate knowledge of the inner workings of Airservices and the Australian ATC/Airspace system. Plus some of his exchanges with resident troll Cap'n Bloggs are priceless...  

Examples:

Hoosten Class E at Avalon was a political load of crap, it was implemented to appease certain people.


As I said the controllers do a remarkable job given what has been thrown at them. But the point remains that it is not Class E in reality, it has been modified and Australianised (in other words, effed up).

Put E where it will significantly improve and enhance safety, YMNG.

If Class E is not justified at YMAV, re-classify it, easy.

(I am Porter)

---

What service would have prevented this accident?

E Base 1200 would have prevented it. Australian ATC, despite the morons running the place, have never put 2 together.

(I am Porter)

---

I challenge you to tell the families of those killed that this country can't afford to implement solutions that would 100% prevented the MNG accident.

Captain Luddite,

How about posting an example of the letter you'd write to the families of the 4 people killed telling them that Australia can't afford Class E.

And how would you explain that the 4 million lost to the community was wasted and could have been spent providing probably 6 years of Class E in the sectors concerned?

Shit, forgot,

(I am Porter)

Capn Bloggs WTF? Get a life, Hoosten you troll.

Hoosten You can't take it can you? You can dish the trash out but when it comes to answering the hard stuff. You wilt. We have a name for people like you.


(I am Porter)

I'm not really, but whatever rocks your boat.

---

Run along Captain L,


Report to moderator.

My job here is done. People are now discussing Class E and a modern airspace system. Most of them get it, you? Keep livin' in the dark ages old son.

You are unable to discuss any points, it's your way or the highway.

Tootle Pip

(I am Leadsled)

---

What defences [i]are[/i] there in place to prevent a midair between a VFR and an IFR in E?

The same defences you have in your beloved Class G, EXCEPT.......You are being positively separated with other IFR.

If you hit a VFR who happens to be in IMC (as I know one PPRuNe VFR regular who likes to boast that his home made panel is fine in IMC) then what can you do about a criminal and deliberate negligent act (VFR flying in IMC)?

Balloon, Class E at Avalon was implemented to appease and shut one particular person up.

Capn Bloggs Originally Posted by Hooson

The same defences you have in your beloved Class G, EXCEPT.......You are being positively separated with other IFR.

You obviously don't know how G works then. I talk to VFRs in G, they talk to me, and we avoid each other. That doesn't happen in E.

If you hit a VFR who happens to be in IMC (as I know one PPRuNe VFR regular who likes to boast that his home made panel is fine in IMC) then what can you do about a criminal and deliberate negligent act (VFR flying in IMC)?

No relevance to the discussion. Have you reported said person to CASA?


Originally Posted by Balun

But surely a regulator with any integrity wouldn’t designate airspace just to shut one person up? Surely

You never did like taking orders, did you Balon?

Hoosten

You obviously don't know how G works then. I talk to VFRs in G, they talk to me, and we avoid each other. That doesn't happen in E.

Oh, I know how G works, I've spent plenty of time flying in it. Uhhhm, what prevents you from talking to a VFR in E? You obviously don't know how E works.

---

megan, regarding the MAX, I'm sure the lawyers involved from all party's will get the letter composition right. And I'm also sure that the regulator or Boeing won't get too many opportunities to go down that path again. That's what happens most of the time in the US.


In the case of MNG, what opportunity will there be to lawyer up? NONE, because the profit making ANSP was acting within its purview. The OAR will also sit there fat dumb and happy, nothing to see here. And CASA will simply say it was an accident.

Your talk about under resourcing, there is none when a profit is being made. Except when the resourcing is sacrificed for a return to government.

Well done you mate for your thoughtful reply that doesn't take away from the fact, your airspace is hopelessly inadequate in a number of high traffic areas.

Didn't you know

(I am Porter)

except when

(I am Leadsled)

Tootle Pip

---

But surely a regulator with any integrity wouldn’t designate airspace just to shut one person up? Surely.

Of course not, politics doesn't come into airspace management, only safety.

---

Dick, from my recollection the surveillance went down to around 2500-ish. That was before ADSB became more widespread. I don't think it has improved significantly since the introduction.

I'll give you another act of stupidity in CTAF's and whomever has propogated and perpetuated it, the 'downwind' 'base' & 'final' calls. For Godsakes. It is ridiculous.

---

As for what would have most likely prevented this, well Hoosten is correct. E at 1200ft AGL would have done the job and is probably achievable.

I'll guarantee you, it would not have happened, simply wouldn't have. Australian ATC haven't put two together. Worldwide it is an incredibly low occurrence of ATC caused collision whether inside or out of controlled airspace.

I’m assuming the inbound aircraft was inbound for air work, so probably what would have happened for the separation would be clear the inbound to a level 1000ft above the outbound aircraft LSALT, and then procedurally clear the outbound aircraft. They would have been separated while in IMC. I’m not totally certain, but I believe that is something like what Hoosten is suggesting. Nobody would have been unduly delayed, it isn’t particularly difficult, and the separation is done by the professional paid $200k per year to do it.

Procedural radial separation is one way of doing it, another way is to delay the aircraft on the ground. Yet another way is to improve the surveillance to lower levels, less delay. If anyone wants to bang on about costs, yes, putting radar surveillance out there would be prohibitive. But guess what's come along and is being used more and more in GA cockpits, all while your ANSP is feeding the trough in Canberra.

Speaking of that 'trough' I was wondering when some of the Alphabets may suggest some sort of 'stimulus package' for the 
critical effects of COVID-19 on the already depressed aviation and tourism industries?

Question?

I note the following from ScoMo's stimulus package announced yesterday (note part in bold):

Assistance for severely-affected regions

• $1 billion to support those sectors, regions and communities that have been disproportionately affected by the economic impacts of the Coronavirus, including those heavily reliant on industries such as tourism, agriculture and education. This will include the waiver of fees and charges for tourism businesses that operate in the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park and Commonwealth National Parks. It will also include additional assistance to help businesses identify alternative export markets or supply chains. Targeted measures will also be developed to further promote domestic tourism. Further plans and measures to support recovery will be designed and delivered in partnership with the affected industries and communities.
  

Has anyone from industry suggested that perhaps such fee and charges waiver should be extended to GA charter and aviation tourism businesses paying service charges/fees for ATC enroute and terminal services provided by Airservices Australia?

Or even extend that to a waiver for the extra fuel excise charges for CASA services? 

But of course that won't happen because that would eat into Harfwit and his fellow OneSKY trough feeding team's KPI bonuses etc...etc 

MTF...P2