[Peetwo]

Jeez, P2, wouldn't it just be easier to let CAsA announce the pilot, either one or both dunnit, let wodger wabbit  loose to work out administrative embuggerence, problem solved.
Oh sorry, inconvenient truth....there's a fairly supportive union behind the pilots aint there. Pity, be much easier that way, CAsA gets another scalp, Wodger gets his rocks off, save heaps of money.
Punters have long forgotten the incident and probably didn't care that much anyway because nobody ended up in a smoking hole.

Naughty Thorny to suggest such a thing could be blamed on the Skygods is shear blasphemy...   As an example with the UP Mildura fog duck-up thread see what happened to "K" after he posted this thought provoking piece - #280

...To sort out the 'Mildura' issues is going to be a big job. Clearly there are major corporate, crew, meteorological and on the fringes, legislative issues. Although I feel the 'regs' are blameless this time – the Australian fuel policy is useful, flexible and with a little common sense tweaking works fine, for grown ups capable of taking responsibility and allowed to make decisions, although it does expect that the crews can look at the presented forecast, make an informed decision and order an extra few, discretionary drops of fuel – (to be sure, to be sure). Or to bugger off somewhere else before things get too 'tight'.

Once again, there are deep issues involved, BoM practice, methodology and policy. Corporate pressures, operational policy, pilot training, human factors; etc. in fact, all the parts of a crash puzzle except without body parts melded with aircraft parts, for the third time now. (Fuel x 3 + Weather x 3).

Mildura is a serious, but subtle event. Now, can our compromised ATSB sort it out before centuries end?. Will the report have any value?. Is the political will, savvy and interest required to make the recommendations stick there?. Or will we just end up with the 'company has amended their policy' etc; or, two crews re sitting their ATPL Met exams a' la the Chambers system. Or perhaps, McComic will just blame the whole shemozzle on the ills of society, con yet another minister and leave the spin to those who know how best to do it. One thing the Senate has achieved though, there will no disgustingly obvious cover up; not this time.

I don't know which concerns me the most: but close to the top of the list must be that two, not one, but two separate airlines finished up, operationally compromised, landing in less than ideal conditions, at Mildura. A foggy day should end with multiple complaints to management due to delays, missed connections, changes to crew rosters and a higher fuel bill; not with a full on declared fuel emergency and Brace, brace, brace.

Winter fog in Australia is not 'unusual', there are a few options available; delay, divert, hold and divert. All corporately unpalatable and operationally problematic; but, rock solid safe. A skipper has all of those options available, fully supported by law. The 'company' policy does not signify.

One concern, worthy of some consideration is 'crew attitude' and whether the ATSB has the balls to tackle the subliminal pressures to 'be on schedule', minimise fuel uplift and yet manage to not compromise or embarrass the company. Why did both crews not throw on 'gas for Mum'?. The little alarm bells of experienced crew, going south, early morning, in winter with the ambient weather conditions should ring, and a discreet, prudent 30 or even a big fat 60 minutes could be 'smuggled' inboard without adverse operational comment. Did two, not one, well fed, rested crews not 'see' the possibility of fog and take appropriate measures, I doubt it.. "One is unfortunate, two begins to look like carelessness". I believe we are allowed to ask why, just in case the nanny state or corporate dogma has managed to brainwash or bully a more politically correct generation of pilots, without denigrating the crews involved.

Three incidents, no bodies. Lucky country ? you bet.

Brace, brace, brace.

Where's me old tin hat.

Hmm...passing strange that "K" agreed on anything that came off Tinbindildo's keyboard/apple device...

Next moving onto to another bizarre & outstanding ATSB (supposedly pc'ed) investigation, that of the bent tail ATR VH-FVR: AO-2014-032  
This serious incident only came to our attention when VH-FVR was strangely grounded indefinitely after the Captain reported a possible bird-strike incident on approach to Albury. We then discovered that the identified structural damage to the ATR actually occurred 5 days earlier on CB to SY sector. And that is where the details of the ongoing investigation started to become strange...   
Planetalking articles - Virgin Australia’s leg breaker ATR now ATSB tail breaker plus...

 

Was it a bird, or a stuff up? The Virgin ATR questions
Ben Sandilands | Apr 23, 2014 1:12PM |

Whatever it was that the ATR hit, it was definitely too damaged to continue to operate in the state in which it came to rest in Albury


Julie Andrews in Sound of Music, or the ATSB in Albury? PR photo 20th Century Fox

There are unresolved issues about the Virgin Australia ATR turbo-prop currently but not always hidden from view at Albury Airport following the discovery of significant damage to its airframe after it landed there on 25 February.

The aircraft was also involved in a serious turbulence incidence on the a flight between Canberra and Sydney on 20 February, and in an earlier post we have described how the ATSB linked that incident to the later Albury incident in a manner which no doubt by pure coincidence rendered it invisible to public scrutiny.

Among the questions awaiting answers is the extent to which, if at all, the public was exposed to risk between 20-25 February  by the aircraft continuing in service.

It is important to ask the question without prejudice. The ATSB could be completely mistaken in linking the two incidents and to have done so without any substantive reason whatsoever.

Virgin Australia had the ATR inspected after the turbulence incidence by a contractor, who may well have correctly concluded that the aircraft was fit to fly.

The pilot who thought he hit a bird on approach to Albury and made an external investigation of the turbo-prop to discovered what could be one of the more ruinous bird strikes in the history of such incidents in Australia could have been correct in his suspicions.

But whatever it was that the ATR hit,  it was definitely too damaged to continue to operate in the state in which it came to rest in Albury, where according to Virgin Australia:
 An ATR-72 is currently in Albury awaiting repairs, the aircraft is currently under ATSB control and the repairs will commence once the ATSB’s investigation is complete.

Virgin Australia also said “Virgin Australia pilots conduct a pre-flight inspection of their aircraft prior to every flight”. This tells us that whatever was bent on inspection in Albury after landing wasn’t bent before take off in Sydney more than an hour earlier and infers that either a prior condition suddenly manifested itself in the airframe or was caused by hitting what must have been a very large bird with its T-tail.

Finding out the truth is obviously a matter of considerable importance, and there is a sequence of events from the actions the pilots took on 20 February to respond to turbulence through to the post turbulence inspection and on to whatever event caused the airframe to deform on 25 February that all need to be fully understood.

The most important matter of all might be whether the airliner flew while in an unsafe condition between 20-25 February, and if it did, what steps need to be taken to prevent this happening again.

But the integrity of the post turbulence inspection process is obviously also critical to the above.
Answers to these questions are needed.

In a transparent and accountable air safety administrative process these issues would be explored NTSB style, at public hearings.  Documents would be produced and examined. Responsible people would publicly account for their actions. In Australia such matters are settled out of sight through a process of negotiation when it comes to the wording of the final report between the safety authorities and the commercial and professional parties to an inquiry, leading to an agreed final document, although the ATSB does have the power to publish its findings over the objections of other parties.

For the time being Virgin Australia isn’t proceeding with its originally intended expansion of its regional arm, which was Skywest Airlines of WA , which it purchased from Singaporean shareholders last year.

Then - Virgin Australia flew 13 passenger flights in broken turbo-prop - which Ben began with this question...

"...Where on earth is CASA as well as Virgin Australia and the Minister for Aviation in relation to the shocking update by the ATSB in the case of a damaged 68 passenger ATR72 turbo-prop that was allowed to fly 13 times in scheduled service after a turbulence event on a Sydney-Canberra flight in February?..."

And what has happened since & what have we learnt from this incident(s)? Well according to the publicly available records off the ATSB website....um..err..not much??

TBC/- Definitely MTF with this ATSB investigation (& others) P2..

Ps You will all be pleased to hear that VH-FVR's broken tail has been fixed and is reportedly back flying the line??