Airports - Buy two, get one free. - Printable Version

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RE: Airports - Buy two, get one free. - thorn bird - 09-09-2015

Well according to todays Fin. review, Bankstown airport is sold.
Altis, another development shark, has bid over two hundred million for BK and CN.
Great result for the CBA, they get their 195 Million back or role the loan over to Altis.
Still a few bucks left over to pay out the receivers,various other parasites and perhaps donate a bit more to the political parties,probably favouring the State labour party to make sure they make good on their promise to shut the airport down for "Development".
Too big a stretch??
Aww come on, a property shark does not cough up two hundred Million unless they can see ten times that at some stage in the future. Twenty million in rent is not even 10% return after expenses, just keeps the loan ticking over until they can do what they do..develop, as long as its not for airports, no money in Airports, like National Parks, they exist to serve the public. Its now a waiting game, just how long will an Industry brought to its knees by over regulation and greed survive?

All the hard yards have been done by the incumbent.
Bal has pretty well put a lid on the contamination issues.
Love to know what it cost for those retrospective EPA approvals from Bankstown council (we're in the money..we're in the money) Yea!
They have forced a good deal of the industry off the airport, there's very little to do but clean up the stragglers and the pot of gold is theirs.
Dont you love the way they spin it?
Bob Ell's little project on the flood plain is "Ajacent" to Bankstown airport,not part of it. No mention that they ripped up a runway, moved the radio aid, and paid the museum to be move to Camden to make that space, chomping almost a third out of the airport. Wonder what the poor old Museum folk will do when Camden airport becomes HOT property? move to Goulburn?
I guess the long suffering aviation tenants can look forward to another round of skyrocketing rent increases and electricity charges as Altis follow the tried and proven technique of pricing aviation off the airport to free it up for "development".
The Murky Mandarin no doubt pulling strings in the background in aid of the process.

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RE: Airports - Buy two, get one free. - thorn bird - 09-18-2015

Rather interesting aint it? Six bidders for Bankstown Airport, all of them property sharks. Now a reasonable man would ponder, why would property sharks be interested in running an airport?

A reasonable man would conclude that they have no interest in running an airport, but a lot of interest in the value of the land said airport sits on.

A meeting will be held shortly at the terminal at Bankstown airport to tell the current aviation tenants that their time is up.

Bob Elle is the man, he's going to create 2000 jobs by shutting down Aviation and building shopping centers, flogging merchandise made in China at bargain prices.

No mention of the thousands of jobs that could be created, real jobs requiring expertise, not just the ability to convince a bogan that what they are buying is actually well made not crap. If only the Aviation Industry could rid itself of all the parasites feeding off it and a rampageous regulator hell bent on its destruction there is so much it could contribute to Australia.

Bob Elles Utopia is to be built on a Floodplain, contaminated with asbestos, possibly radioactive material, live munitions, PCB's and possibly pits full of sewerage, but what the hell, a few bucks here and a few bucks there, and things like EPA approvals, public interest etc. magically disappear and them that could end up with it in their backyard, conveniently ignored.

When general aviation finally collapses under the weight of inspired regulation, and its airports turned into urban utopias, where do the development sharks turn next with their corrupting money, National Parks perhaps?

The really sad thing is, when all this is history, no one will notice a Murky Mandarin sidle out of his public persona to join the ranks at the millionaires club.

And there was I, so naive, believing that corruption didn't exist in Australia.

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RE: Airports - Buy two, get one free. - Gobbledock - 09-18-2015

Thorny;

"The really sad thing is, when all this is history, no one will notice a Murky Mandarin sidle out of his public persona to join the ranks at the millionaires club".

Don't bet on that mate. As long as long as Gobbles has breath in his lungs and a few taddies in his testicles he will be watching these individuals with interest. I don't give a shit if old mate pops his gigantic head up in 10 years time, I will be watching. These parasites have and are robbing my grandkids of not only a financial future but an aviation future, and there is no forgiveness for that!

Tick tock developer grubs, sleep with one eye open and watch out for the Sandman.

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RE: Airports - Buy two, get one free. - Peetwo - 10-12-2015

For the interest of Thorny & others here is the AQON for the Department Airports division - 8AAA.pdf.

The parts to do with Bankstown in particular start from page 3 thru to page 35.

MTF..P2

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RE: Airports - Buy two, get one free. - thorn bird - 10-13-2015

Well guys and girls.   An interesting piece of scuttlebutt doing the rounds.

It seems there has been a steady stream of "Stakeholders" doing the rounds in Cant-berra the past while. By "stakeholders" I mean them with a financial interest, not an aviation interest. The top man from BAL is apparently spending a few days with the Murky Mandarin, "recalled for consultations", about what?  Only the fly on the wall knows.

Perhaps to receive instructions on how to bury inconvenient truths such as breaches of the airports act, environmental act, airport leases etc. 

Or maybe they are negotiating the carve up of the "Manna from heaven" about to fall in their lap from the largess of the billionaire development sharks.

Now wouldn't you love to be that fly on the wall!! Maybe not..."Ignorance is bliss".

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RE: Airports - Buy two, get one free. - thorn bird - 10-25-2015

My apologies gentlemen for a very long Sunday ramble, but I really am getting pissed off with blatant ignoring of corruption. Anyway, to the Sunday ramble:  Just finished reading through a submission sent to the CEO of Banstown Airport by Bankstown City council, many passing strange questions came to mind.

But there are so many “Passing strange” questions regarding aviation in Australia, e.g. our regulators relationship with their bastard child the ATSB, which produces imponderable investigation into accidents, allegedly to garner the why’s and wherefore’s to establish frameworks which, hopefully, prevent re-occurrence; but, in fact produce spin doctored reports reflecting the opinion of whichever sky god is occupying the throne at CAsA.

Our regulator seems hell bent on going it alone; utilizing fraudulent incompetents to write a never-ending stream of gobbledygook legislation ignoring the objections of those they regulate and considerable evidence that what they are doing is destroying our industry.  A graphic illustration perhaps, I was told even Qantas is employing pilots from Bangladesh on 457 visa’s.

Is this the end game for aviation in this country? Our young people shut out of our domestic market and internationally disadvantaged, simply because they cannot obtain the qualification required through CAsA regulations pricing them out of the market.

Our TAIF’s and equivalents are shutting down their courses in aviation engineering. Apparently that is why there are so few candidates and even fewer graduates, CAsA is exporting our engineering expertise overseas. To quote the Victorian government.

Quote:“Because all aircraft maintenance will be carried out overseas”.

The average age of LAME’s is growing to the extent that today they are fulfilling our previous treasurers belief that old age is a “lifestyle choice” . Even then, many are simply giving up under the weight  of ridiculous rules which ride roughshod over their vast experience and skills. 
Constantly threatened with criminal sanction by illogical, incompetent Numpies who wouldn’t know a spanner from a spark-plug, and who could blame them?  When all that experience and skill is gone it can never be replaced.

It is becoming obvious there is a willful conspiracy within bureaucracy and government to rid this country of all aviation except RPT and the sky gods, the big question is why?  I have no idea.   There just seems no logical explanation for the willful neglect by government.  The lure of the holy dollar would be a prime suspect; perhaps the privatisation of our airports sheds  a glimmer of light.   

There are a lot of dots out there that point to corruption, they just need joining up, we are finally seeing some action with the Air Services audit.  What has happened to our airports has been much more subtle and over a greater time period

There was a time when airports in Australia were considered National Assets, vital for the defence of our country. Many were hurriedly built or improved during the second world war largely to provide emergency landing grounds for far less sophisticated aircraft than today. In the USA that philosophy remains: but, most of their airports were constructed by the army corps of engineers to a very high standard looking to the future when they might be required by very heavy and sophisticated aircraft. Ours were largely built in a rush to accommodate DC 3’s. Except for our primary airports there has been very little improvement since the second world war.

When our government decided our airports were no longer a national asset and sought to dispose of them a Murky Mandarin and his sidekick Beaker were charged with their disposal.

Sale of primary airports were a no brainer. Monopolies generating huge amounts of cash which clever lawyers and accountants could massage into tax free havens were manna from heaven for McBank.

Country airports were no bother either, simply give them back to the local councils and let them worry about the costs, for there are no profits.

Capital city secondary airports were a somewhat different proposition.

Old beaker and Murky realised that for airports without the massive flow of tax free dollars they didn’t have much to sell, the airports barely broke even. Which of them had the eureka epiphany we will probably never know until the final rewards are handed out.  But, consider this - those secondary airports were sitting on some very valuable real estate, green field development sites in the middle of capital cities, every development sharks wet dream.

Which brings me to the Bankstown council’s submission.  In its first observation it states.

Quote:1. Exhibition Process

Council is concerned that the exhibition process has not been conducted
As required under Division 4 of the airports act 1996.

The exhibited documents are predominately review documents that are based on referenced documents from previous development applications.
Some of the referenced documents date back to 2005 and are not exhibited, in particular the sight contamination and management plans. It is difficult to assess the entirety of the environmental impacts without the main investigation reports.

Further, the proponents has provided Council updated studies during the exhibition period without updating the exhibition website for the public.
There is inconsistency with the publicity exhibited documents and Council issued documents.

This has made it difficult for Council to reach any definitive conclusions on the matters of consideration.

Mr Minister, seems like people are breaking the law. As a minister of the crown is it not your duty to uphold the LAW?...Perhaps not the lure of the Holy Dollar is very hard to resist.

Quote:2.  Flood impacts

2.1  Flood study by DHI dated July 2015

The main aim of the 2015 flood study by DHI is to assess the proposed development layout, till levels and flood mitigation measures to a 2007 baseline condition (fill and infrastructure).

Council is concerned with the approach taken by DHI in preparing the flood report and provides the following comments:

2.1.1. Council does not support the use of  “scale flows” based on relative sizes of catchments as a valid approach. This is not an approach that is accepted by the stormwater industry.

2.1.2.  It is unclear if the flood modelling is consistent with Council’s adopted blockage policy.

2.1.3.  The 2007 baseline condition adopted does not allow the impacts from earlier filling to be determined, and associated impacts mitigated.

2.1.4. The BMT WBM Report dated June 2015 (version 5) implies that the ground levels of the north western portion of the Bankstown Business Estate have been modified. Council seek confirmation of the function and purposes of the modification to this area. Modelling of the impacts due to landform modifications should be undertaken.

2.1.5. Further information is required on the 375 mm culvert under Milperra Road to which the 6 x 1.5m culverts and overland flow path discharged to. Council remains concerned that filling and development of the Bankstown Business Estate has had an impact on flood levels around this culvert and 501 and 501A Milperra Road.

2.1.6. Section 6 of the report indicates the flood water has been redistributed on the northern side of the airport in the vicinity of the Rabaul Road drain. Council require that impacts on this drain are to pre-development levels as any exacerbation of existing impacts would not be appropriate and would be inconsistent with Council’s Development Control Plan which requires flood impacts are not transferred to other properties.

2.2  Draft Flood study by BMT WBM dated June 2015 (Version 5)

Council acknowledges that the draft flood study report provides an assessment of impacts stormwater flooding conditions based on the agreed flood model with Council. However it is also noted that the flood study by BMT WBM dated June 2015 (version 1) is the exhibited document. During the exhibition, a revised report (version 5) was sent to Council to review.

Council provides the following comments:

2.2.1. The report refers to and is complementary to a DHI report dated July 2014. It is noted that this DHI report has since been superseded twice by reports dated November 2014 and July 2015. BMT WBM should review the latest DHI report to ensure there are no omissions, and that the landforms, drainage infrastructure and mitigation measures are consistent with the DHI report. Further modelling may be required after this review.

2.2.2. Council does not support the recommended Mitigation Scenario 1. It is an analysis of the lowering of Council blockage policy, which requires that a blockage factor of 50% be applied to all culverts with a diagonal opening less than 6m. The analysis lowered the blockage factors applied to the existing and proposed culverts until there were no adverse flood impacts at Tower Road. This could only be achieved once the blockage of the existing culvert at Tower Road and proposed culverts under the car park were reduced to 0% and 35% respectively. Completely unblocked small culverts (less than 1.5m diameter) in 100 year ARI flood conditions is unachievable.

2.2.3.  Council’s blockage for culverts is used for modelling purposes to determine impacts of flooding and mitigating measures.

2.2.4. Flood Mitigation Scenario 4 is recommended as a minimum requirement as it was the only option to show reduced flood impacts at Tower Road.

2.2.5. The modelling shows adverse impacts between 0.1m – 0.2m and greater than 0.3m on the properties Nos. 501 and 501A Milperra Road respectively in the 20 year event when comparing the future to the current scenario. These properties are owned by Department of Lands. Appropriate mitigation measures should be devised and reported on to reduce these impacts.

Mr. Minister, there seems to be some questions about the environment here.

Is it true that un-remediated asbestos and radioactive contaminated fill been placed on a flood plain by persons or entities unknown. Without environmental approval other than that provided by themselves written on Federal government letterhead to imply the approval was government sanctioned?

Is it true that this contaminated fill was placed on top of buried live explosive ordinance, sewerage waste, carcinogenic substances from foam used by the airport fire service during training , along with thousands of litres of bunker oil used for dust suppression during the war?

It has been suggested that because of the damming affect caused by the destruction of the flood plain, if a major flood occurs the runways at Bankstown would disappear underwater, along with many houses both upstream and downstream of the airport.

Mr Minister, should this occur, who takes responsibility for compensation to those affected by what appears to be illegal environmental vandalism?

Just who did dump contaminated fill on the flood plain?

The current shark circling the airport seems to have been there for a lot longer than anyone thought, perhaps from the beginning.

Is there a long term relationship between this shark and the Murky mandarin?

Mr Minister is it true development Sharks are notorious for ignoring environmental standards. The one attempting to create an industrial nirvana at Bankstown airport allegedly employing thousands of shop assistants, is a past master at that.  Simply Google Leda and tweed heads should enlighten anyone of the depths to which they will stoop. Its an old scam, get the development started and to a point where its irreversible, plead ignorance, cop a slap on the wrist fine, or make a substantial contribution to a political party, then get on with it.

Has the Bankstown great white shark contributed to any Federal political party either directly or indirectly?

Mr Minister, is it true that to accommodate the development of the Southern side of Bankstown airport a runway had to be closed, a vital runway for the safe operation of Bankstown Airport as a training airport?

Did the ATSB do due diligence of the safety implications or simply accept the direction of its master the CEO of  CAsA?

Was this contrary to the lease signed by the Federal government? 

Was stamp duty paid on that lease to the NSW government?  If not why not?

Who destroyed state government archives in relation to the sale of all three airports in the Sydney basin, one of which has already been destroyed and turned into an industrial nivarna.

Are there already complaint from local residents about thousands of trucks clogging their streets because of this development?

Was this contrary to the airports Act?  If so, Why and who authorised it?

Mr Minister, is it true that another inconvenient obstruction to the development sharks plans was the site of Bankstown’s radio Navigation Aid, a Non Directional beacon (NDB). Which would have required the expenditure of some $23 Million dollars to gain access to Milperra road.

Is it true that the Development shark  circling the airport made representation to Air services Australia to move the NDB?

Is it true the Air services Australia manager responsible for radio navigation aids declined the developers request?

Is it true that after he declined the request he was confronted by alleged anomalies in his expense account and was forced to resign?

Is it true that shortly after his departure the radio Aid was moved?

Mr Minister, Who paid for the movement of the Radio Aid at Bankstown Airport?

Has the Radio Aid be re-calibrated at its new location?  If not, why not?

If an accident occurs due to aircraft using an un-calibrated radio aid who is liable for compensation?

Council provides the following comments on the proposal;

Quote:3.2.  Uncertain provision of public transport infrastructure and services 

The proponent has provided a ground transport plan, which includes a traffic impact study. This site is located away from an existing town centre with a train station, which is around 4km south at East Hills. Due to the isolated location of the proposed development, people will rely predominantly on private vehicles.

Council’s position is to rebalance the car dominated approach by providing services and infrastructure that also promotes public transport usage, walking and cycling

Council provides the following comments on the proposal :

3.2.1. The ground transport plan does not contain certainty that Transport of NSW and the private bus operators have agreed to propose bus stops or route adjustment. There is no certainty that the proposed bus stops will be constructed beyond the assessment of the major development plan.

3.2.2.  The proposed shared pathway within the site ignores the potential for an additional shared pathway connection along Milperra Road to the Council owed shared pathway at Kentucky Reserve.

3.2.3.  The ground transport plan must have certainty of the provision of services with the transport operators and a shared pathway network that logically support walking and cycling.

4.  Insufficient Impact assessment and management plans for threatened species

The draft plan proposes the main vehicle and a separate pedestrian access from Milperra Road through the Airport Reserve, and road widening on Milperra Road that encroaches on the Airport Reserve. Further, the draft plan seeks to remove an existing dam that has been identified as a potential habitat for endangered fauna.

The Airport Reserve is owned by the Crown and it is located between Milperra Road and the subject site. The Airport Reserve is known to contain Endangered Ecological Communities that are protected under the Commonwealth Environmental Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act 1999 (EPBC Act) and NSW Threatened Species Conservation Act 1995 (TSC Act). It contains endangered species of Cook’s River/ Castlereagh Ironbark Forest, Cumberland Swamp Oak Riparian Forest and Cumberland River – Flat Forest. The site may also contain the critically endangered plant called Hibbertia sp. and endangered Green & Golden Bell Frog.

Council provides the following comments on the proposal;

Quote:4.1.  The draft plan does not have sufficient impact studies and management plans to offset the impacts to the Endangered Ecological Communities (EEC) and other threatened species.

4.2.  The draft plan does not provide sufficient impact assessment of the EECs or Hibbertia sp. The proponents have provided a copy of the referenced document called “ Flora and Fauna Assessment and Ecological Impact Assessment for a proposed entrance driveway dated May 2011. The assessment recommends further investigation of Hibbertia sp.  within the Airport Reserve, subject to two locations of the proposed road access. Council has not been provided the outcome of the any further investigation for this species.

4.3. The potential habitat for Green & Golden Bell Frog has been identified in the natural creek in the Airport Reserve and the dam within the subject site. The draft plan proposes to remove the dam and pipe the creek under the proposed access road from Milperra Road. There is insufficient assessment on the impact of the removal and disruption of the habitat.

4.4.  The proponent must provide sufficient environmental impacts assessment based on Commonwealth and State legislations, and provide the necessary management plans for the affected sensitive areas in the Airport Reserve and the subject site.

5.  Heritage significance of the site

The draft plan does not identify the site as a heritage item. Bankstown Local Environment Plan 2015 lists the subject site as a locally significant heritage site, especially the significance of the Bankstown Aviation Museum located within the subject site.

A heritage assessment of the site must be completed as a part of the draft plan.

6.  Loss of flood storage in the Georges River and Milperra Drain Floodplains.

Since 2002, progressive filling of the subject site has occurred, which is located within both the Georges River and Milperra Drain Floodplains. In 2008, Sydney  Metro Airports allowed landfilling of approximately 26 hectares of the subject site. Sydney Metro Airports allowed landfilling to raise areas of the site above  the 1 in 100 year flood line to make the site flood free without off-setting the loss of flood storage and analysing off-site flood impacts.

As part of the Mid-Georges River Floodplain Study, Council and Sydney Metro Airports began a study to analyse the impacts of this filling on the Milperra Floodplain in 2014. It is acknowledged that this model is currently being used by LEDA Holdings in the flood impact assessment undertaken by BMT WBM.

However, to date the loss of flood storage in the Georges River Floodplain has not been addressed or an appropriate off-site impact flood analysis based on pre-2007 scenario been conducted.

Council recognises that Sydney Metro Airports has been working with Council on understanding the impact of fill within the Milperra sub-catchment and has agreed to explore options for mitigating the impacts of this past fill.

It is recommended that Sydney Metro Airports extend this work to the Georges River Floodplain. This is an opportunity to consider the pre-2007 scenario to understand the full flood impact of the proposed major development, including mitigation measures for the loss of flood storage areas. This approach is consistent with the scope of the flood study by DHI dated July 2015, which quotes the requirements by Sydney Metro Airports to LEDA holdings (a letter dated 24 March 2011) :

“Does not result in significant off-site flood impacts_ i.e. any flood storage area lost as a result of future development (post- 2005) on the airport will be accommodated on-site using 1:100 year ARI.”

Mr Minister, when are you going to assert control over your minions and start acting in the interests of those your portfolio covers?

When are you going to cease ignoring what is becoming more and more like rampant corruption?

As Gobbles would say - TICK TOCK

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RE: Airports - Buy two, get one free. - Gobbledock - 10-25-2015

What lies beneath

Thorny, sensational piece of work sir, a dozen choc frogs for you.

I cannot add a thing to Thornys robust analysis except to say that this one airport issue, as serious as it is, is not the only one. But what we need is someone to pose some serious questions on such a serious issue to the Prime Minister, the Deputy Prime Minister/Minister responsible for aviation, and the Department Secretary. You three gentlemen should be held accountable.

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RE: Airports - Buy two, get one free. - Kharon - 10-26-2015

Obloquy or Obituary.

You have to wonder just what in the seven hells the Minister is thinking about – it most certainly ain’t aviation. Not as a viable, vibrant industry which can and does in other countries contribute to employment and national purse. Simply running a business into the ground does nor make any sense to me, None whatsoever.

All jokes aside – Australia is becoming an international aviation joke; and, one more failed audit it will also become a pariah. Hated simply because from being a first world leader it has, knowingly and willingly degenerated to a stumbling, blind, deaf mutation of the pure ideology. It is a national disgrace, dysfunctional and arrogantly dismissive of control. IMO the actions of the three agencies should be considered treason – the amount of damage done to the economy being sufficient reason to disband all three and start again.

The cost to the public is disproportional to the benefits, the cost to industry is prohibitive and reducing the numbers of those who could share the cost burden is counterproductive, in the extreme; higher costs – fewer to pay them; all come back on the taxpayers who use the services provided.

The ASA seem to live in world remote from any form of being accountable for the vast sums spent and wasted to provide no efficiency improvement, seen in reduced operating costs, reflected in less expensive airfares.

The ATSB are from a different planet – altogether. The Pel-Air ditching off Norfolk Island should, in a sane country, have raised alarm bells. The safety oversight wedded to and bedded by political interest.

The CASA generating rules which expand the incredible, untouchable power of the regulator to do whatever it pleases and ensure that once the dogs are turned loose there is nowhere to hide, no legal defence and CASA are not accountable to man or the gods for any and all of their actions.

The Minister tacitly supports all of this and much, much more. It’s a bloody disgrace – Shame on you Minister, shame and eternal damnation. Perhaps the residents along the banks of the Georges River can make you see the light; then again, there’;s none so blind as those who will not see.

Selah.

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RE: Airports - Buy two, get one free. - P7_TOM - 10-26-2015

Every aircraft should have a frog painted on it – the saviour of General Aviation.  Great post Thorny, it would, indeed, be passing strange if the fate of one small frog saved an industry.

Kermit rules OK.

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RE: Airports - Buy two, get one free. - Gobbledock - 10-26-2015

Tom, perhaps a small free courage badge for Thorny?

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RE: Airports - Buy two, get one free. - P7_TOM - 10-26-2015

Nice thought GD – I count Thorny amongst my nearest and dearest, more years than either of us care to remember, more tales than could ever be told, not to mention as many miles on the clock.  Courage is a strange notion – Gann reckoned pilots wear courage as a comfortable belt  (keeps your pants up when needed) – I doubt many of those who 'need' such things would not realise that to even suggest Thorny had ‘courage’ would simply embarrass the chap and the notion of giving him the equivalent of a nut jobs rubber band, to remind him that courage was needed, would roll him about the floor - laughing.  

He does however have a certain weakness for Tim Tams (always plural); therefore with as much pomp and ceremony as the BRB will allow – I will leave two in his flight bag, which will please both of us – he because on a long watch, back of the clock – he will find them; and smile, and myself simply because the notion of TB sitting on deck as the stars slide by, feet up on the dashboard, munching quietly on an awarded TT pleases me greatly.

Cheers Thorny.

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RE: Airports - Buy two, get one free. - Gobbledock - 10-26-2015

The poor airports have long been forgotten.  Ok, sure, they cop a bad wrap due to landing charges and car park charges, and if you are Brisbane, Sydney or Melboune then I agree that as a customer you are going to cop it in the hip pocket. But what about mid-level size airports and small airports? How does one fund the endless cycle of infrastructure maintence, upgrades and expected surpluses that Councils and investors seek? How does one of these airports manage all of that as well as bank some coin for future on site development when they can only charge minimal to nothing for car parking, they have basically no tenants, and all they have is landing and parking fees to extract some crumbs from?

The above is the plight of a vast amount of the medium to small size airports. They are generally forgotten, handed over to incompetents to manage, always being stalked by hungry developers and always copping a spray for the most minor infractions. A great majority of airports, the ones that make up the largest numbers are these smaller airports who rely on all levels of operators to keep alive - GA, Maintenance Orgs, freight, helo and fixed wing training, lots of individual business units that are often the ones keeping the airport alive, just. Then along comes CAsA. Firstly they send a group of Inspectors in to tear the airport a new anus. Then they target all those pesky airport businesses who are trying to turn a dollar, contribute to the Australian economy, who want to employee people, and they burden them down with red tape, unworkable rules and sharpened jackboots.

The outcome, hmmm, take a look at the once mighty and splendid Bankstown as an example, now a GA wasteland that can be compared to an extinct Western movie town where the dry winds blow tumbleweed and dust down the Main Street (or Runway). The smell of aviation fuel is replaced by the smell of carcinogens and an early evening Fukishima glow. The sounds of engines, props, rotors, and torque wrenches being dropped on the hangar floor replaced by the sound of developers cash registers, champagne glasses klinking together, or the sounds of airside silence where only a crow can be heard and the sounds of Mother Earth trying not to vomit up all those buried chemicals that are bubbling and gurgling and awaiting the next lot of flood waters to strike. What about the beautiful early morning hue being broken by aircraft taking off, silhouettes of a bygone era climbing effortlessly into the sky, nowhere to be hardly seen. Instead we see the glow of luminescent car park lights, hotel signs and concrete facades.

But don't worry about it Mr Truss, Mr MrDak, Mr Skid'Mark or anyone else who could've assisted in stemming aviations flow of blood. All you arseclowns know about aviation is how to get out of your limo and quickly scamper into the QF Chairmans Lounge at a mainline port near you or sit comfortably up the pointy end of a large jet. It's a damned disgrace.

No tick tock tonight. A tear or three instead.
Gobbles

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RE: Airports - Buy two, get one free. - thorn bird - 10-27-2015

Mate Gobbles,
how many times do we hear faint voices, voices growing ever fainter,
"Copy the one country in the world who seems to have it right"...
"the one that has the best safety record statistically in the world"....
"the one where the industry is valued, the one with foster and promote as its ethos"...
"the one where by and large landing and parking fees are almost unknown"
"the one where most service charges are unknown"....
How is this done? Is the aviation Industry in this place a burden on the taxpayers?
From what I know, far from it.
Perhaps a little like the British royal family, people rail against its cost, but as an institution it returns far more to the country than it takes, Britain would be far poorer without it.
Perhaps as study of how the FAA is funded and in turn funds the institution and infrastructure of aviation might enlighten us?
Then again what would they know about aviation!!

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RE: Airports - Buy two, get one free. - Gobbledock - 10-27-2015

A Thorny a day keeps the CAsA away

Thornomeister;

"Perhaps as study of how the FAA is funded and in turn funds the institution and infrastructure of aviation might enlighten us?"

Your wish is my command, oh wise one.
I thought the USA's Airports Improvement Program (AIP) was worth a closer look. Some information contained below. It would appear that the program, although slightly exaggerated IMO as far as actuals and real outcomes are concerned, does address funding of infrastructure, planning and wait for it,'SUPPORT' from the FAA. What a novel idea! Better than Dr Voodoo's heavily promulgated 'all heil the aviation fuhrer and take my jackboot in your ass approach'. 

Willyleaks;

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airport_Improvement_Program

From the FAA;

http://www.faa.gov/airports/aip/

One thing is for certain, it takes a Government commitment to invest in and spend money on airports to ensure airports exist. The pattern of Australian governments has been to invest minimal money, if any, or flog the asset to the nearest loan shark, or just concentrate on policies that the masses see as being important - you know, pink batts, big screen TV's and the quality of the roads around Point Piper and Vaucluse.

An entirely new approach, a new mindset, a realisation by government that all levels of aviation are critical to our nation is needed if we are to not only grow our industry but be ready and able to adjust to market changes and other dynamics. A generation of planners, strategists and economic minds, rather than the current mindset that only thinks about political survival from election to election, is drowned in antiquated, out of touch, no thought 1980's method of sitting on your thumbs.

But hell, what would Thorny and I know, we are just a couple of retired old codgers who enjoy plane spotting at Bankstown!

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RE: Airports - Buy two, get one free. - thorn bird - 10-27-2015

The end of the beginning or the beginning of the end!!

Just a rumour, but it would appear that high level consultation has been going on the past few weeks between the Murky Mandarin, the dozy minister (if he is awake) a couple of our favorite senators and  Bankstown operator BAL in company with the bikie gang development sharks circling the airport.
Apparently a whole new facility to accommodate the Police air wing is to be created next to the bus shelter and lead contaminated school (the ground all round that school is contaminated with lead, you can walk around and pick it up, wonderful stuff for developing brains).

Now there was I imagining the Police were opposed to Bikie gangs, strange bedfellows, then again money is like oil on the water.

This alongside a new development to provide a home for the NSW government rort (how to waste public money without even trying,or, the National safety council revisited) squandering public money on a  helicopter base over near the TOL freight shed.

Would appear the end game is nigh, for everything that doesn't have fling wings.

Bankstown is to become a heliport.

Them that cant alight in a vertical manner can just bugger off, find somewhere else to run their businesses.

One or two inconvenient truths, such as all the breaches of the law that has occurred so far, which perhaps has reached the limits of credible denial,  has lead to discussion that to continue the destruction of Bankstown as an airport requires changing the Airport act, head leases and a few other inconvenient rules and regulations.

Now if one was a reasonably intelligent thinker, what other reason would there be for changing the Airports Act and other impediments to development could there be but to do a Hoxton??

Here come the runway busting bulldozers!!

That Murky, you have to hand it to him, no way he's going to be denied his Pot of gold.

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RE: Airports - Buy two, get one free. - Kharon - 10-28-2015

Aye, it’s a frogs life, if you don’t weaken.

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RE: Airports - Buy two, get one free. - ventus45 - 10-28-2015

I was never Luke Skywalker - but I was young once .....................


I joined the AAL (Australian Air League) in 1964, at the tender age of ten.
Side note 1:  I was a founding member of the Clemton Park AAL Squadron in fact - establishd by Mr Bell and the Russell brothers (big kids - sixteen, seventeen or so).  
Side note 2: We were later amalgamated with Marrickville Squadron.

So what - you ask - or perhaps don't ?

well, our first "outing", a small group of 12 of us, with a couple of "father officers", was a trip to YSBK, in it's hey-day.  

I had been looking forward to it for weeks.  Keen as mustard, as excited as hell.

I had my Kodak instamatic camera, two flash cubes, two fresh AAA's, and, two vp-126 cartridges of, wait for it, not just B&W film, but Kodak Ektachrome slide film, that had cost me a WHOLE month's pocket money, plus a "secret suplement from mum" - don't tell your father !!).

The day finally came, I awoke, I jumped out of bed like an olympic high-jumper, I looked out the window, and then I felt instantly depressed.

It was a filthy day weather wise, rain, low cloud, and windy, and I mean real windy !!

But I was not deterred.

Mum had her doubts, but she let me go anyway.
After all, I wouldn't disolve in the rain, nor run the "unacceptable" risk of getting one or more of a possible zillion imaginary ailments, not like modern kids.
Modern mums would not have let me go, no way.
But back then, we kids didn't mind getting wet, or dirty, nor did our mums, really.
It was "normal" then - wasn't it ?

I walked the well worn path to the Clemton Park Public Primary School (the assembly point), of 400 metres (it was "yards" back then, bloody yards !! - OK !!), in uniform, in the rain.
As I walked, hopped, skipped and part jogged off on my way, the neighbours waved, and I waved back.
That was normal then too.

One by one, the others arrived, all excited and rearing to go.

Eventually, two cars pulled up, and we all pilled in.
Two car loads - we held the record for the number of kids squeezed into Mr Bell's beetle !!)
No seat belts, no air-bags. (air-what's ?).
None of that stuff then.
Me and my mate, being the two yougest and smallest, were prone in the boot, with the lid cocked up about a foot by two bits of four-b-two and secured with two "belt-straps", and off we went !!
(For those who don't know where the boot is in a beetle, do a google.)
"Ops Normal Officer" !!

Could you just imagine what would happen today, if a Highway Patrol Copper saw that ?

Assuming he recovered from his heart attack, he would have to "call it in" to Highway Patrol Command.
Such a situation is way, way, way, way beyond a senior constable's discretionary decision matrix today.
It would require a deputy commissioner level decision - minimum.
Far too risky for a "pull over - stop" - what if the driver bolted ?
Any pursuit would be out of the question - career ended.
Even a "follow at a discrete distance and report" would be way too risky in a lolly-pop-car.
He would have to call in an unmarked job for the "trail".
Mean time, Central Command you would have Polair one, two, three and four all scrambled, (ironically out of YSBK), the Commissioner would be informed, the TRG called out, the Police Minister and Premier informed (there will be one hell of a media storm to weather once the nine and seven and ten news helos get wind of it) road blocks will be set up, Ambo's put on alert, local hospitals alerted, DOCS informed, negotiators called out...........
God, I am getting sick just thinking about it.
You know it would happen.
If we could still scan the airwaves like in the old days (all the services have encryped radios now) we could laugh our guts up, and maybe, be motivated to do something about the lunacy of operations in the "PC" world of today, but it is hidden, few people know, or care, and none act, effectively.

I  digress - sorry ..........

Just one barb: CASA - eat you heart out !!

Now, where was I ?

Oh yes, I remember ......

We started off at 8am and arrived (safely) at YSBK by 8:30am.

We did the rounds of the hangars.
It seemed like dozens of them.
All hives of activity, mechanics, pilots (real ones - with wings on their shirts - and a "huge" Dakota - with Masling - on it), and lots of student pilots and instructors.
We were shown everything, climbed in and out of aircraft (they were "aircraft" - not "planes" - we knew that !) lots of aircraft, big and small, tail dragers and "tri-cycles".
We sat at the controls, had all the dials (instruments) explained ( most of it in one ear out the other - you understand ) red levers, blue levers, white levers, switches, lots and lots of switches, and head sets, and microphones - it was amazing.

People everywhere, all anxious to fly !!
But the lousy weather was unkind, everyone was grounded, waiting for the weather to break.
Would it, or wouldn't it ?
No one knew.
Everyone had forecasts and weather maps.  
I had never seen one before.  
It had highs and lows, and a real big nasty line on it, with little triangles on the right side.
I was told it was a "cold front" and the reason the weather was so crappy.  
I (innocently) asked why it did not just "bugger-off" and let us go fly, and all the "grown-ups" just started laughing.  
Anyway, we moved on, more hangars, more aircraft (NOT planes), and more people, lots of people.

I Used up my two flash cubes too quickly !! ( only eight shots mind - bugga).

Then, we went outside to watch an engine "run up" on a biplane.  
It was a DeHavilland Rapide.  
Fascinating.

Time moved on.
By early afternoon the rain had stopped mostly, just occasional showers, but the wind had got worse.
Lots of people were giving up any thought of a chance to fly that day, and were starting to go home, but not all.

Around this time, we kids got a real treat.

You must understand that we had been told in no uncertain terms weeks before, that the one thing we WOULD NOT be able to do was visit the tower, because it was so busy and there were RULES about such things, so don't ask, in fact, don't even think about it !!

Mr Bell suddenly anounced that he had got a message from the control tower.

Long story short.
The guys in the tower had observed us kids doing the rounds during the day, and since there was no flying, they rang up the hangar we were in at the time, and invited us up to the tower !!

We could not beleive it, but down to the tower we went.  The door opened and after a few "rules" were laid out by the controller, up the stairs we went, in leaps and bounds !
The head controller (there were four from memory) then showed us around and explained how everything worked, but nothing was actually happening.

Then, a radio call came in.  
It was on the speaker, so we all heard it.
It was the chief pilot of the aero club asking what the winds currently were.
one of the controllers spoke to him and said something like 45 gusting 60 or similar.
(As I mentioned above, it had been bloody windy all day, and was now even stronger than in the morning).

To everyone's amasement, including the controllers, he said he was going to fly !

He taxi'd out in the Chipmunk, very slowly and very carefully, with a man sitting on the front of each wing near the tips.
Eventually he got to the runway, and lined up, into wind, obviously.
The two guys on the wings got off and ran away.
The Chipmunk just sat there for a while, with the tower now giving the wind almost continuously.
We were all watching, and there were lots of people outside watching too !!
Finally, he decided to take off and requested clearance.
The tower said ok, and he started to move forward.
Almost instantly, the tail came up and he was level, at walking pace !
He went a little faster and took off and climbed.
Forward speed was bugger all.
It almost looked like a helicopter.
we were all transfixed.
He got to about 100 feet.
Then he put the flaps down. We saw him suddenly put them down.
Then, to our utter disbeleif, he slowly started moving backwards !!
He "reversed" in the air, about 100 yards or so, then pitched down and landed, and stopped, BEHIND where he had started from !!
The two guys then ran over and got on the wings again, and then he slowly and carefully taxi'd back in again.
Everyone cheered, and I for one was stoked and hooked.
I decided I was going to fly one day, even though we were poor, come hell or high water or both !!

Now, that is how it happened, whether you beleive it or not.
It is as clear in my mind as yesterday.

Could you imagine what CASA would do, if anyone even thought of doing that today ?
I gave the police example above for a reason.
Now you know why.

I went to YSBK often in subsequent years, both with the AAL and ATC-RAAF, and made a few "contacts".
As a result, I got a few "free flights" by flying as "ballast" on a number of occasions, when pilots were getting new endorsements from 182's to 206's etc (self loading ballast required for max weight).
I never flew there as a pilot though, since I went for gliders at Camden (a financially driven decision).

Many years later, (January 1978) I faced a serious wind problem in an L-13 Blanik, which had both me in the glider and the tug pilot in a Piper Super Cub in a bit of a spot.
There was a storm many miles away, ten or more, that didn't appear to be an immediate concern.
But it nearly got us.
What I now know to have been a microburst (didn't know then) which was way stronger than anything previously experienced, and much-much stronger than anticipated, came out of the storm, and hit the field, whilst we were on climb !!  
We were  suddenly in unexpected conditions almost as bad as that day at YSBK.
He landed OK, so he said later in the pub, but on the limit.
So did I, BUT way over our wind limit.
If you have ever flown a Blanik, I had 80 kias short final with half to a third brake and 800ft per minute down before "rounding out" for a wheelie at 60 kias full brake estimated ground speed 20 knots, with the pucker factor way up !  Ground roll was "short".
Obviously I could not taxi, nor could I get out.
With 40 to 45 knots IAS, stationary on the ground, with full stick forward to keep the nose on the ground, I had to "fly the ailerons" until help arrived, thankfully, in about 5 minutes, in the form of three guys with a car and a tow rope.  One guy on each wing and one driving the car, slowly, with me still strapped in "flying", all the way to the "tie-down".  Very exciting, too bloody exciting !!  
Flying was cancelled for the rest of the day !!

Last year, 50 years after my first "visit" I drove out to YSBK to buy some charts, as part of my MH-370 work.

I drove around for a while, slowly, down to the control tower (it still looks pretty much the same - from a distance), up and down all the "ways", past the hangars.
All the hangar doors are closed.
Gates, lots of gates, all with security keypads.
There are no people around.
It was 2pm on a wednesday, and the place was deserted.
I worked my way back up the hill towards Marion Street, and come across this car place, a workshop, the dyno-tune car performance place, I forget it's name, and eventually found the "chart shop" nearby.
I parked, got out, and stood, and looked around.
I saw nothing, and I heard nothing, aviation.
No aircraft, no engine sounds, nothing, just the wind.
And then, suddenly, the sound, of ...... I presume, a V8 screaming it's head off, on the dyno.
Not a Gypsie major, or minor, or anything that could ever turn a prop.

It may sound spooky, but it reminded me of a movie I once saw.
I can not remember the name of it, but it was a war movie.
It opened with an old man, standing in a English field, with the remnants of an old control tower to one side, and as the credits rolled up the screen, the camera slowly panned vertically up to the clouds, and as it panned back down slowly, the music and the credits ended, and the scene was now of a vibrant WW2 bomber base - and the movie went on.
At the end, the reverse occured.
As the credits rolled by, the scence went to the clouds, and then back to the old man in the field.
He then slowly walked away, off camera, stage right, and fadeout to black - "The End" - in white.

As I looked around, all I saw, was what is now a toxic aviation wasteland.
Toxic in every way, chemically, commercially, financially, politically, legally, ethically, ........ lots of "lly's".
Too many "lly's".

YSBK is indeed now riddled with those zillion ailments, but unlike years past, they are now real, not imaginary, and, tragically, they are incureable.

Just like the ailments once beatable by antibiotics, like rampant staff infections in our hospitals, that now easily defeat the antibiotics, a situation brought about by the inappropriate and gross overuse of same by an all knowing self richeous and unaccountable medical clique, YSBK as the hospital, and GA as the patients, are being decimated by aviation's plague of inappropriate, illogical, unreasonable, nonsensical  regulations, and worse, the gross, purile, and zealously vindictive overuse of same, by another unaccountable "aviation clique" - CASA.

The prognosis is grave.
GA is at death's door.
YSBK will soon be "condemmed" as an empty graveyard, ripe for redevelopment.

One must ask.
Was that not the "game plan" from the beginning ?
Schoefields, Hoxton, done and dusted.
YSBK soon ?
YSCN next ?
Perfect political subdefuge ?
Who remembers ?
Who sees ?
Who knows ?
Who cares ?
Who will write the epitath ?
Will anyone bother ?
Will anyone read it, even if anyone does bother to write it ?

Senator Fawcett, Heff, or Zeno ?
Perhaps, it should really rank a Ministerial ?

The Miniscule could ask Mrdak to get Beaker to draft it for him.......  perhaps..... ?

Was it not he, before he entered the ATSB, who gleefully weilded the syringe, by his own hand, that injected the infection, correction, the toxic imunisation innoculation, that is so successfully, slowly but surely destroying the hospital and turning it into a graveyard ?

Is it not also he, who as head of the ATSB, has been shown to willingly and deceptively assist the prime "aviation clique" in it's selective and vindictive prosecution and persecution of certain GA targets, by ensuring that his supposedly ICAO compliant "independent" reports have been "spiced" with a certain flavour, most paletable to the "aviation clique" ?

After all, he knows best...... does he not ?

Surely he must ?

He is always telling the good senators he does, does he not ?

Remember his retort to Heff's remark about him climbing his own water tower ?


I am not a patch on Yoda.
I am more of an elephant type.
But reality is, I am now Just an old man, standing on a rise, looking down on an old control tower.

Fade to black.
The End.

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RE: Airports - Buy two, get one free. - ventus45 - 10-30-2015

I just found a "Yoda" quote that is apt:

– Yoda - “Clear your mind must be, if you are to find the villains behind this plot.”

http://www.yodaquotes.net/page/8/

.......... and ......

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RE: Airports - Buy two, get one free. - ventus45 - 10-30-2015

I don't mean to upset anyone tooooooooooo much, but have a look at this.

Bankstown is the ‘hidden jewel’ of Sydney

Quote:Urban planning thinktank Future Cities Collaborative says Bankstown is the ‘hidden jewel’ of Sydney

October 13, 2015 12:00am
James BeechCanterbury-Bankstown Express
Bankstown is the hidden jewel of Sydney, according to Professor Edward Blakely from urban planning thinktank Future Cities Collaborative.

ONE of the world’s leading thinkers on urban planning says Bankstown is the “hidden gem” of Sydney.

Professor Edward Blakely from Future Cities Collaborative will help Bankstown Council on how it delivers its Local Area Plan.

The plan outlines how Bankstown will accommodate an extra 30,000 residents over the next 15 years.

Future Cities Collaborative aims to help leaders build sustainable cities.

Prof Blakely told The Express the Bankstown line being part of the Metro project would mean more businesses relocating to the area.

Sydney Metro City and Southwest, a new 30km line between Metro Northwest, Chatswood, under Sydney Harbour, through the CBD and south west to Bankstown, is due to open in 2024.

“(The Metro) will mean Bankstown connections to the city, which means some employers are going to say, if my people are living in the Bankstown-Liverpool area, why don’t I move my business there,” he said.

“I think this is a great opportunity for Bankstown.”

Bankstown Airport was described as an asset for the city by Prof Blakely. Picture: Nathan Edwards
Prof Blakely said Bankstown also had the advantage of having an airport.
WHAT IS PLANNED FOR YOUR NEIGHBOURHOOD IN COUNCIL'S FUTURE VISION?
HOUSE PRICES NEAR INFRASTRUCTURE PROJECTS TIPPED FOR TAKE-OFF IN 2015

Manufacturing and distribution firms were also in Bankstown’s favour compared with the rest of Sydney while the Georges River was an asset “the city turned its back on.”
An artist's impression of the proposed Bankstown Business Estate, on Bankstown Airport land, to open in 2017.
Prof Blakely said Paul Keating Park and Bankstown Library and Knowledge Centre were “outstanding” and Bankstown Arts Centre was “a lovely space”.
But how would people new to Bankstown know there was an arts centre around the corner, or that walking down Saigon Place would lead to food courts and side alleys, he asked.
The Georges River is underused by Bankstown, Prof Blakely said. Picture: Damian Shaw
“I call Bankstown a hidden jewel. It’s one of the competitor locations with Liverpool and Parramatta, Campbelltown and Penrith,” he said. “These are the places that, if they don’t perform well, Sydney cannot be a global city.”
Future Cities Collaborative founder and chairman Prof Blakely at work.

A Bankstown Council spokeswoman said the council had already widely consulted with residents about the plan. “We are now engaging with Prof Blakely to learn from international best practice on planning to meet the future needs of local communities,” the spokeswoman said.

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RE: Airports - Buy two, get one free. - Gobbledock - 10-30-2015

Bankstown, the 'hidden stool' of Sydney

Professor Spin doctor;

"Bankstown Airport was described as an asset for the city by Prof Blakely"

Are you serious mate? What airport? The one that 'used to be'? The airport has been stuffed by greedy developers and it sits on a toxic wasteland. How much did they pay you Professor Numbnuts?

More BS from Professor Spin Doctor;

"The Georges River is underused by Bankstown, Prof Blakely said"

You don't say! Probably because nobody wants to see their families glowing fluorescent green you numpty. Let's see you jet skiing and swimming in the Georges after the next flood! Again how much did they pay you Professor Numbnuts?

Naughty Ventus, you got me stirred up now. Wait til Thorny reads this!

Bucket please.

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