Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - Printable Version

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+--- Thread: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 (/showthread.php?tid=24)

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RE: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - aussie500 - 06-05-2015

You lot can pick on Dolan all you like, but unless he actually knows where MH370 is and is involved in a coverup, you cannot necessarily say he has handled the search wrong. Would anyone trust Dolan and the ATSB with the truth? Would anyone trust Australia with the truth if it is a coverup?

The 7th arc is a valid starting point (although they wasted time on the 5th and 6th did they not?), Inmarsat are pretty sure of their calculations, with only a bit of error involved. ATSB seem to think for some daft reason a B777 keeled over like a rock and fell near there soon as the fuel ran out, the current search has just about proved that wrong. Could be something wrong with the expert opinion they got on that. Just like the expert opinion that said debris would be washing up on West Sumatra. The BFO on a log in attempt is not reliable, we have no idea what was happening on that plane, but power did seem to go off as it crossed that 7th arc. But then the power went off before and the plane never fell from the sky, if something smaller did no one really did a good search to find out.

MH370 appears to be an escape artist defying the odds, even if it turns up back where the AMSA search ended, they will get a ribbing but you can hardly blame them for moving on when such exciting things as re-calculations, false leads and tempting BB pings that were not, were hauling the official search off course.

Stuffing up the Pel-Air investigation, in an attempt to sweep under the carpet other problems they and CASA should have dealt before it got to that, hardly means they will deliberately or accidentally stuff up the MH370 search. More people are watching them this time, and we cannot blame the ATSB or CASA for losing MH370, only for not finding it. The SIO is a very big place to be looking for 1 lost B777, even if it fell near that 7th arc.

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RE: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - P7_TOM - 06-08-2015

Oh, I don’t think anyone is blaming CASA or ATSB for ‘loosing’ or being unable to locate the aircraft.   What is hard to believe or accept is that Australia would put up a front man who was always going to be the centre of attention who had a slightly ‘tarnished’ reputation and the censure of a Senate committee dogging his heels.  It was always on the cards that Australia would end up carrying a fair chunk of blame should the aircraft not be found; so why start the race with a 10 yard handicap, when we have better qualified, more acceptable men available.  Clearly the powers that be believe that the beyond all reason approach to accident investigation is good enough for them; we just happen to mildly disagree with that notion.  That’s all…..

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Tim Clark has his say - Gobbledock - 06-11-2015

Tim Clark has had a few words to say on MH370 in the past 24 hours, this article from Simply Marvellous Horse Pooh;

http://m.smh.com.au/business/aviation/australia-will-call-off-mh370-goose-chase-this-year-emirates-boss-tim-clark-20150610-ghkar9.html

Timbo, never one for 'not speaking his mind' said;

"I'm not going to say anything about what I think happened," Mr Clark said. "It remains an unresolved mystery. Somebody knows more about this than they are prepared to say. That is all I'm going to say."

Well said Tim. The whole thing stinks. And we may as well pack up now and go to the pub because even if they knew where the plane was Beaker wouldn't be able to find it even if he tripped over the black box sitting on a beach on Diago Garcia!

On a seperate note from Goong Chen, Texas university;

http://www.science.tamu.edu/news/story.php?story_ID=1418#.VXjVZYkayc3

Interesting hypothesis. Aircraft crashes certainly produce interesting results. Valuejet flight 592 into the Florida Everglades was amazing. A fully serviceable DC9 pretty much just disappears! And of course AA Flight 77 into the Pentagon comes to mind, almost total vaporisation, as was with AA Flight 11 and UA Flight 175 into the World Trade Towers. Of course all these were different accidents under different circumstances and cannot be compared, but all were high velocity impacts. And of course as yet we still don't have any prof that MH370 was a high velocity impact.

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RE: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - aussie500 - 06-13-2015

If you look at the ping rings from the inmarsat data, you would think the pattern is fairly symmetrical, a curve, MH370 flew out on a south west track across western Sumatra, and then seems to have turned back to mirror the first half of the flight.

Or maybe she was slowly losing altitude and slowing down? I doubt it was a nose dive or high velocity impact. If MH370 reached the roaring 40's her very design would I think make it hard to do a nose dive with such strong winds under her wings, especially if they were tail winds, or someone actually turned her to go with the wind. But I am not a pilot, and these ATSB expert keep telling us B777's fall like a rock or suddenly spiral down with the same impact.

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Could Beaker get kidnapped? Get out the risk matrix chart - Gobbledock - 06-21-2015

Article from Free Malaysia Today;

http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/nation/2015/06/20/first-phase-of-mh370-search-ends-this-month/

The Malaysian Miniscule said this;

Liow said the government would beef up maritime security in the South China Sea to ensure the safety of all ships, following the hijacking of oil tanker MT Orkim Harmony last week.
“We have managed to reduce piracy close to zero in the Straits of Malacca and hopefully we can do the same in the South China Sea,” he said.

It would be nice if Beaker was nicked by those naughty Pirates! I wonder if he is worth more money with or without the beard? Never mind, Abbott and Co are happy to pay smugglers for their services so perhaps we can pass the hat around and take up a collection and get the Somali Pirates to nick Beaker for us? Or perhaps that is the problem, while Beaker and Malaysia were too busy playing with themselves and looking in the wrong area a bunch of Pirates found and salvaged the aircrafts remains? They would have much better skills pinpointing a find than that Can'tberra based imbecile who hides behind his beard and giant glasses of water.

The name Freescale Semiconductor still keeps popping up. I'm betting $50 Beaker won't be looking down that path in a hurry.

TICK TOCK Beaker, the clock on your 7th arc is ticking down.....tick tick tick

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RE: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - ventus45 - 06-21-2015

(06-21-2015, 01:41 PM)Gobbledock Wrote:  Or perhaps that is the problem, while Beaker and Malaysia were too busy playing with themselves and looking in the wrong area, a bunch of Pirates found and salvaged the aircrafts remains ?

They would have much better skills pinpointing a find than that Can'tberra based imbecile who hides behind his beard and giant glasses of water.

The name Freescale Semiconductor still keeps popping up. I'm betting $50 Beaker won't be looking down that path in a hurry.

TICK TOCK Beaker, the clock on your 7th arc is ticking down.....tick tick tick

If you were to be one of those skeptical souls, who might just think that the whole 7th arc search has probably been just an almighty elaborate show, a deliberate show, to buy time for the "pirates", to get in, collect, and get out, unseen, these would make very interesting reading:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2506171/Life-aboard-Navys-secret-Cold-War-submarine-The-disassembled-NR-1-vessel-brought-life-exhibition-dangerous-missions.html
http://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/monograph_reports/MR1395/MR1395.ch1.pdf
http://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/monograph_reports/MR1395/MR1395.ch2.pdf
http://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/monograph_reports/MR1395/MR1395.ch3.pdf
http://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/monograph_reports/MR1395/MR1395.ch4.pdf
http://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/monograph_reports/MR1395/MR1395.ch5.pdf

Reminds me of that famous British Intelligence Operation of World War Two, Operation Mincemeat, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mincemeat

Perhaps, the ATSB search for MH-370 has been, still is ? Operation Mincemeat TWO ? - aka - "The Search that Never Was" ?

UPDATED: 23 January 2018

Will MH370 ever be found ?


Perhaps there was some very secret reason behind it's "public vanishing", known to some government(s), but never to be revealed.
Perhaps some government(s) know exactly where it is - or was.
Perhaps it has been "visited", and whatever it was that was wanted already recovered, perhaps even the whole aircraft itself.

When one considers the technology developed during the cold war, the NR-1, and the Glomar Explorer, a purpose built ship designed specifically to recover the Soviet submarine K-129, (which it partially achieved) nothing is considered beyond the possible, particularly given the great advances in undersea technology since those days.

If you have a few hours to spare, a few links of interest.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glomar_Explorer

http://www.hisutton.com/NR-1.html

http://www.hisutton.com/Secret%20Sub%20-%20USS%20Halibut.html

http://aboutsubs.com/halibut.htm

http://www.hisutton.com/Yantar.html

http://www.hisutton.com/Spy%20Subs%20-Project%2009852%20Belgorod.html

http://www.hisutton.com/USS_Parche.html

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/the-nearly-forgotten-story-super-secret-us-navy-spy-18595?page=show

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/how-super-secret-us-navy-submarine-tapped-russias-underwater-21370?page=show

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/paul-pillar/revealed-the-us-militarys-super-secret-deep-sea-spy-22473?page=show

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/exposed-the-us-navys-most-super-secret-spy-submarine-15223?page=show

http://warisboring.com/secretive-u-s-navy-submarine-went-on-a-dangerous-mission/

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/1968-us-nuclear-submarine-went-russia-super-secret-spy-18379

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/russias-super-secret-spy-submarine-returns-sea-18171

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/did-the-us-navy-build-super-secret-undersea-lairs-its-17269?page=show

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/israels-super-secret-nuclear-weapons-program-everything-you-23519?page=show

http://oai.dtic.mil/oai/oai?verb=getRecord&metadataPrefix=html&identifier=AD0724677

https://www.autoblog.com/2013/04/09/this-is-how-a-tunnel-boring-machine-will-burrow-a-viaduct-under/

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RE: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - aussie500 - 06-21-2015

Thanks for the links ventus45, always love reading about our ocean watching 'spies'. Pity the rest is classified, I am not expecting to ever read about those still classified missions.

And it would not surprise me if at least part of MH370 was already salvaged, since they went to such lengths to move the search north real quick.

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Of pots of money - Gobbledock - 06-22-2015

Interesting recent article with comments by Paul-Henry Nargeolet. It seems he isn't overly impressed either with Australia's beard on/beard off 'font of all things safety', Herr Dolan.

Nargeolet said;

“Fugro is a big company but they don’t have any experience in this kind of search and it’s really a very specialised job,” Paul-Henry Nargeolet, hired by France’s air investigation agency BEA to head up the search and recovery efforts of Air France Flight AF447 in 2009, told Reuters.

“This is a big job. I’m not an Australian taxpayer, but if I was, I would be very mad to see money being spent like that.”

I'm sure that Beaker, who prides himself on being fiscally sound beyond all reason, would hate to hear someone criticising his (mis)use of money! But then again, careful use of taxpayers money has not been a consideration of any Australian government in recent decades.

Full article;

http://mobile.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-search-is-the-most-expensive-mission-in-aviation-history/story-fnizu68q-1227373927698

Sorry Beaker old son, but pretty much everybody thinks you're a complete knob, including the cleaners in your building, old mother Hubbard, Vladamir Putin, Justin Bieber....................

"Expensive skies for all"

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Pause button has been pressed - Gobbledock - 06-25-2015

Update below

Ships headed for Freemantle;

http://mobile.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/and-then-there-were-none-mh370-search-suddenly-paused/story-fnizu68q-1227413137811

And some JACC mi mi mi;

http://www.jacc.gov.au/families/operational_reports/opsearch-update-20150624.aspx

And;

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/mh370-supply-ship-withdrawn-from-search-fleet-413987/

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They call him Bruce - Lithium batteries did it! - Gobbledock - 06-25-2015

Lithium batteries caused it apparently;

http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/nation/2015/06/25/lithium-batteries-brought-down-mh370-says-investigator/

Certainly a plausible theory and one not to be ruled out. The only thing now missing is some tangible evidence.

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RE: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - ventus45 - 06-26-2015

I still think it was a planned ditching.

For those who say an open ocean ditching of an airliner is impossible, consider the case of ALM Flight 980.

On May 2, 1970, a DC-9 with fifty-seven passengers and a crew of six departed New York’s JFK international airport en route to the tropical island of St. Maarten. The flight ended four hours and thirty-four minutes later in the shark-infested waters of the Caribbean. It was at the time, and remains, the only open-water ditching of a commercial jet.
NTSB report: http://www.airdisaster.com/reports/ntsb/AAR71-08.pdf

The true story of ALM 980 was featured in the MSNBC Documentary series Why Planes Crash. The documentary features an animation of what the ditching of ALM Flight 980 might have looked like. The show also includes interviews with captain Balsey DeWitt and author Emilio Corsetti III. Hear captain Dewitt describe what it was like to make the first and only open-water ditching of a commercial jet. Watch the entire episode, which also has information on the USAir Hudson ditching, below. If you want to watch in full screen, just click on the video once it starts and you’ll be taken to the MSNBC site.
http://www.35milesfromshore.com/msnbc/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALM_Flight_980

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RE: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - P7_TOM - 06-27-2015

Short intermission.

Looks like congratulations time for P2.  The hard work and effort he has put into MH 370 research has been incredible, the ATSB thread here has just become the first Aunty Pru thread to reach over 10,000 views.  When you add up all the MH 370 data, it shows a cart load of good work.

Well done P2 – hat full of Choc frogs, gold star and we will suspend the watch on the biscuit tin for a day – enjoy.   Bravo – that man… …

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RE: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - Peetwo - 06-28-2015

(06-27-2015, 02:55 PM)P7_TOM Wrote:  Short intermission.

Looks like congratulations time for P2.  The hard work and effort he has put into MH 370 research has been incredible, the ATSB thread here has just become the first Aunty Pru thread to reach over 10,000 views.  When you add up all the MH 370 data, it shows a cart load of good work.

Well done P2 – hat full of Choc frogs, gold star and we will suspend the watch on the biscuit tin for a day – enjoy.   Bravo – that man… …

Aw shucks... ..what can I say but here's to the next 10k...100k or ???

Anyway back to business & some more food for thought from Ben..

Quote:Calls for MH17 guilt tribunal raise tricky issues

Ben Sandilands | Jun 28, 2015 12:04PM |


After a harsh northern winter, more remains were recovered from MH17 impact zones

The limitations the UN body ICAO sets on air crash investigations would support fresh calls for a separate tribunal to identify and if possible pursue those responsible for the mid air destruction of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 over Ukraine on 17 July 2014.
But such a renewed call (first made very early in the crash aftermath) faces hurdles irrespective of the positions (plural) taken by Russia which has been widely identified as the source of a ground launched missile believed to have destroyed the jet and killed the 298 people on board the Amsterdam-Kuala Lumpur flight and implicated in the alleged launching of the missile by Russia supported separatists in the eastern area of the central Asia republic. 

This report by The Guardian on the revived possibility of such a tribunal includes a significant change in the original Russian position of opposing what it had previously characterised as anti-Russia bogey man hunts.

Deputy foreign minister Gennady Gatilov in his detailed quotation says “Now we must wait until the end of the investigation rather than adopt hasty resolutions on creating a tribunal …the issue is very sensitive and serious and must be thoroughly studied”.

This is not only sensible and correct in the light of ICAO Annex 13, which defines the purpose and scope of air crash investigations by parties to the UN treaties on civil aviation,  but coming from a senior person in the Russian government, is markedly different from the somewhat shrill earlier rhetoric blaming the incident variously on a Ukraine jet’s machine guns or in a revised version, an air-to-air missile it was then supposed to have fired at the Malaysia Airlines 777-200ER.

To recap, Annex 13 investigations are required to seek answers to the causes of air disasters and draw and circulate among the aviation community world wide, the safety lessons and recommendations that would improve air safety and general and prevent accidents with specific identified causes from happening again.

They are specifically excluded from determining guilt.  However in real life, guilt is sometimes uncovered in air crash investigations, and such identification of guilt is  intended in practice to be handed over to the processes of criminal prosecution that may apply usually in the jurisdiction of the country which had registered the airliner involved or been the location of the disaster or both.

The Germanwings pilot suicide and mass murder disaster in France in March was turned over to French criminal authorities within a day of the cockpit voice recorder providing prima facie evidence that the first officer intentionally flew that jet into the base of a mountain in the Alpes Maritimes, killing himself and the other 149 people on board.

Something similar happened just as quickly in Australia in January 1977 when the pilot of a Connellan Airways Baron flew it at full speed into the airline’s headquarters at Alice Springs airport, killing himself and four other people who were in the building.

The stitching up of the pilot of the Pel-Air corporate jet that was ditched near Norfolk Island in 2009 as being to blame by a discredited and disgraceful investigation by the ATSB is a clear case of the Australian investigator disregarding its obligations to Annex 13 and making this country look both derelict and unjust in relation to crash inquiries.

Australia has no lofty or high moral ground to stand upon when it comes to air crash investigations. We look crude and nasty given everything that has come to light about the conduct of the ATSB and CASA’s own failures in relation to its oversight of Pel-Air.

The initial investigation into the crash of MH17 released on 9 September last year found that it was probably destroyed “by a large number of high-energy objects that penetrated the aircraft from outside.”

The inquiry has subsequently recovered and initiated the analysis of this shrapnel, but said nothing publicly about thus identifying it with hostile machine gun fire or the detonation of a Russiain made BUK missile in the near proximity of the forward section of the jet.

If the strict interpretation of Annex 13 was followed, the Dutch led crash investigation would hand over the result of such shrapnel analysis to a criminal authority, the question then being which such authority, for which a purpose built but independent UN tribunal or body is clearly the answer being envisaged for that question.

The machine gun scenario has been abandoned by Russia, perhaps because it is inconsistent with the finding in the initial report that all of the functionality of MH17 as a flying aircraft was destroyed in an instant that came about so quickly that there isn’t even a syllable of alarm on the cockpit voice recorder.

However the identity of the party that launched what is suspected to have been a Russian made BUK missile  appears to be illusive.  The possibility that an air-to-air missile launch was responsible for the disaster hasn’t been comprehensively dismissed, however if it was an air launched kill the terrible possibility that a civil airliner was deliberately targeted becomes much stronger, because it is pretty damned hard to  mistake a large airliner for anything else in the sky.

It is important also to note that Russia and the Ukraine both co-operated fully with the initial and, it is assumed, on-going investigation.  There is a wide divide between the rhetoric from Moscow, and even Canberra and Washington DC, and the methodical and determined inquiries of the official ICAO Annex 13 compliant  investigation.

The setting up of a special tribunal to identify and pursue those responsible for MH17 will set up an important precedent for a similar inquiry in relation to missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370.  Of course trying to work out what happened to MH370 has not progressed anywhere nearly as far as it has with MH17.

There isn’t any wreckage to analyse, no flight data or voice recorders to analyse, no potentially clue yielding personal effects , in fact nothing except some difficult to analyse communications data and some extraordinary admissions of early misleading commentary from the government of Malaysia which may have seriously compromised the search for the truth.

At some stage, such a commission of international inquiry into the causes of the MH370 disaster may also become an imperative. Whether there is the courage, or guts, in Australia or elsewhere, to take on the Malaysia authorities over the alarming indications of deliberately misleading behavior at an official level, and for what reason, is something for a future day.

 
Much..much more to follow..P2

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RE: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - Gobbledock - 07-14-2015

Beaker to continue kicking the tin

http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Nation/2015/07/13/MH370-Malaysia-China-Australia-responsible/

In the latest missive from the ICAO boss he acknowledges that Team Beaker will continue leading the search for the missing aircraft, even though Malaysia should be the lead, as the responsible state! Apparently Australia has more money, hence it falls back on to us and the beard on/beard off Beaker. Good on you ICAO. I'm not sure Beaker will like spending precious money, however being the media tart that he is it will give him the opportunity to mince in front of the cameras.

To be con't............

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RE: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - FelineNut - 07-14-2015

(07-14-2015, 11:59 AM)Gobbledock Wrote:  Beaker to continue kicking the tin

http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Nation/2015/07/13/MH370-Malaysia-China-Australia-responsible/

In the latest missive from the ICAO boss he acknowledges that Team Beaker will continue leading the search for the missing aircraft, even though Malaysia should be the lead, as the responsible state! Apparently Australia has more money, hence it falls back on to us and the beard on/beard off Beaker. Good on you ICAO. I'm not sure Beaker will like spending precious money, however being the media tart that he is it will give him the opportunity to mince in front of the cameras.

To be con't............

WHAT? The Duck is still there? What tf is wrong with these Agencies? Have they all just said "Phuket" or are they just trying to duck it? ... what tf is with the duck?

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RE: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - Peetwo - 07-14-2015

(07-14-2015, 11:59 AM)Gobbledock Wrote:  Beaker to continue kicking the tin

http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Nation/2015/07/13/MH370-Malaysia-China-Australia-responsible/

In the latest missive from the ICAO boss he acknowledges that Team Beaker will continue leading the search for the missing aircraft, even though Malaysia should be the lead, as the responsible state! Apparently Australia has more money, hence it falls back on to us and the beard on/beard off Beaker. Good on you ICAO. I'm not sure Beaker will like spending precious money, however being the media tart that he is it will give him the opportunity to mince in front of the cameras.

To be con't............

Here you go Gobbles, I think this is the original...P2

Quote:Search for MH370


$150m spent, but 'hunt must continue for air safety's sake'
      

Japan Coast Guard's Mr Koji Kubota was one of those who participated in the search over the southern Indian Ocean for debris after Flight MH370 went missing in March last Year.PHOTO:REUTERS    Mr Raymond Benjamin

Published
Jul 13, 2015, 5:00 am SGT 

UN aviation body chief says it is the responsibility of Malaysia, China and Australia to see to it that the plane is found
Karamjit Kaur

Aviation Correspondent
karam@sph.com.sg

The search for a Malaysia Airlines plane which was presumed to have crashed more than 16 months ago has already cost about €100 million (S$150 million), or more than €200,000 a day.

The search expenses are being borne mainly by Australia, Malaysia and China, whose citizens accounted for more than six in 10 passengers on board the ill-fated flight.
They do not include indirect costs such as assistance rendered to families of the passengers, said Mr Raymond Benjamin, secretary-general of the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO), a United Nations arm which oversees global commercial aviation.

Flight MH370 went missing about an hour after it left Kuala Lumpur for Beijing on March 8 last year, with 239 people on board.

Despite intensive search efforts in the Indian Ocean into which the plane is believed to have plunged, no physical trace of the Boeing 777 jet has been found.

Quote:WHY PLANE MUST BE FOUND
We don't know what exactly happened in the cockpit so we don't know if it was a security issue or a safety issue. We have never had a situation where an aircraft flew for seven hours before crashing.
MR RAYMOND BENJAMIN, secretary-general of the International Civil Aviation Organisation

In an exclusive interview with The Straits Times on Friday, Mr Benjamin said the aircraft, which allegedly flew for hours without any contact with the ground before it ended its journey, had to be found if the mystery of its disappearance was ever to be resolved.

"We don't know what exactly happened in the cockpit so we don't know if it was a security issue or a safety issue. We have never had a situation where an aircraft flew for seven hours before crashing."

Mr Benjamin, who was in Singapore for an aviation cyber-security conference organised by the Transport Ministry, said it was important to know the cause of an accident to prevent a repeat. "Without the aircraft wreckage, we don't know."

But with little clue as to its location and the consistently rough seas and high winds in the areas being searched, the odds have been stacked against search teams.

As the plane is thought to be in Australia's search and rescue zone, it agreed soon after the incident to lead the hunt for the plane.

But the country, which lost six nationals in the tragedy, is starting to buckle under the financial strain.

The cost to date is already more than three times the amount that was spent, over two years, in the hunt for Air France's Flight AF447, which crashed into the Atlantic Ocean in 2009.

Australia, which has forked out more than any other country, has now asked for support from other Indian Ocean coastal nations and gone to the ICAO for clarity on the country that should take ultimate responsibility for such deep-sea search operations.

Singapore, deploying air and naval resources, was one of many nations involved in the initial phase of the search.

National University of Singapore professor of aviation law Alan Tan said there are no international agreements on the country or party that should bear the costs of an aircraft search.

The Chicago Convention, which regulates global aviation, says that when a plane crashes into international waters, the country of registry - in this case, Malaysia - takes the lead and can request the nearest state to assist.

Prof Tan said: "Australia's financial commitment is voluntary and would have been offered as a matter of diplomatic relations.

"Australia is a wealthy country and that is partly why the search has gone on for so long. But even then, there is clearly a limit to how long the Australians can continue to conduct and finance the search."

In the case of the Air France crash, the aircraft manufacturer, Airbus, contributed to the costs of the search.

"But that itself was highly unusual, and in a case like MH370, where it is still a mystery whether the plane's mechanics had anything to do with its loss, it would be difficult to force the manufacturers to pay search costs," Prof Tan said.

"The reality, then, is that the question of who foots the bill will probably be left to individual states and how they negotiate this diplomatically," he said.

Even as the ICAO has said it would review global conventions following Australia's concerns, Mr Benjamin does not foresee that the hunt will be called off.

"I do not believe the search will be stopped. It will continue for some time," he said, adding it was the responsibility of Malaysia, China and Australia to see to it that the plane is found.

Mr Benjamin said: "For the moment, there is a strong will on the part of all of these parties to continue and, in particular, China and Malaysia."

 

(07-14-2015, 03:33 PM)FelineNut Wrote:  

(07-14-2015, 11:59 AM)Gobbledock Wrote:  Beaker to continue kicking the tin

http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Nation/2015/07/13/MH370-Malaysia-China-Australia-responsible/

In the latest missive from the ICAO boss he acknowledges that Team Beaker will continue leading the search for the missing aircraft, even though Malaysia should be the lead, as the responsible state! Apparently Australia has more money, hence it falls back on to us and the beard on/beard off Beaker. Good on you ICAO. I'm not sure Beaker will like spending precious money, however being the media tart that he is it will give him the opportunity to mince in front of the cameras.

To be con't............

WHAT? The Duck is still there? What tf is wrong with these Agencies? Have they all just said "Phuket" or are they just trying to duck it? ... what tf is with the duck?

Gold pure gold @Felinenut - AP Choc Frog for you...MTF P2

Ps Hmm...this is interesting??

Quote:Bribery scandal linked to Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak


Date July 14, 2015 - 4:32PM

• 569 reading now
  
• (29)
  
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Nick McKenzie, Richard Baker, John Garnaut
 

Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak with Australian prime minister Tony Abbott in Kuala Lumpur last year. Photo: Andrew Meares

Malaysia is blocking the Australian government's requests for information over a corruption scandal which may involve the country's Prime Minister, Najib Razak.

Fairfax Media understands that senior officials in Canberra are aware of intelligence that implicates people in the offices of both Mr Najib and his predecessor, Abdullah Badawi, in allegedly improper dealings involving two Australian Reserve Bank firms over contracts to print polymer bank notes.

But Malaysia has ignored a formal mutual assistance request from the Commonwealth Attorney-General's Department to hand over sensitive information about the financial dealings of a group of Malaysian middlemen embroiled in Australia's most important bribery case.

Former Malaysian Prime Minister Abdullah Ahmad Badawi holds hands with his then deputy Najib Razak (left) in 2008. Photo: Tim Chong

The Malaysian middlemen are allegedly implicated in the bribery scandal, which has sparked the ongoing prosecution of several Australian businessmen who worked for two RBA firms – Securency and Note Printing Australia. 

In another sensational development linked to the case, an Australian judge has accused WikiLeaks of blatant criminal conduct in publishing online last year a suppressed court order naming Mr Najib. It's also been revealed that WikiLeaks is under federal police investigation for the breach.

The RBA bribery scandal involves allegations that Malaysian officials were to be bribed as part of a scheme by the two Reserve Bank companies to win contracts to turn Malaysia's currency from paper notes to polymer between the late 1990s and 2009.

Malaysia's Prime Minister Najib Razak has been linked to a corruption scandal. Photo: Olivia Harris

Fairfax Media can reveal that the scandal is particularly sensitive in Malaysia because some of the allegedly corrupt middlemen are suspected of having close dealings with figures in the offices of both Prime Minister Najib and his predecessor, Abdullah Badawi.

It's understood that while he was deputy prime minister, Mr Najib's office was allegedly used by a middleman to negotiate a kickback from one of the Reserve Bank firms.

A representative for Mr Najib has dismissed the claims and is threatening legal action. The information about Mr Najib and Mr Badawi is not derived from the Australian court proceedings, but from an ongoing investigation by Fairfax Media involving high-level sources across Australasia.

However, on Tuesday afternoon, Victoria's Supreme Court revoked a suppression order obtained last year by Australia's Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade and which names Mr Najib.

The court order had prevented the publication of any information aired in ongoing Reserve Bank bribery court proceedings that "reveals, implies, suggests or alleges" that "Mohammad Najib Abdul Razak, currently Prime Minister (since 2009) and Finance Minister (since 2008) of Malaysia" ever "received or attempted to receive a bribe or improper payment".

The order also prevented the naming of former prime minister Badawi and several top politicians from Indonesia and Vietnam, where bribes were also allegedly paid by RBA firms to win contracts. 

The court had initially agreed a suppression order was necessary to avoid unfairly implicating foreign leaders who were not being formally accused of any wrongdoing and in order to protect Australia's "national security" and "to prevent damage to Australia's international relations".

"DFAT's concern was that the publication of the suppressed information, in relation to the named persons [who include Mr Najib], would offend or embarrass them in circumstances that may have adverse consequences for Australia," Supreme Court Justice Elizabeth Hollingworth said in a recent finding. 

But in revoking the order, Justice Hollingworth said the earlier online publication of the suppression order by WikiLeaks meant that any ongoing attempt to keep secret its contents was futile. 

The judge also revealed that the federal police "are investigating conduct of WikiLeaks and whoever supplied the DFAT order to WikiLeaks". 

The judge said the online dissemination of the order by WikiLeaks, which is headed by Julian Assange, was "a clear and deliberate breach of law" that was also accompanied by a WikiLeaks press release "full of sensational, inaccurate allegations".

While the court has stressed that "none of the named persons [including Mr Najib and Mr Badawi] is a person whom the accused are alleged to have conspired to bribe", it is understood that the offices of both Malaysian leaders have been implicated in suspected corrupt dealings. 
 
No overseas politicians have been charged or formally accused of conspiring to receive bribes, with the prosecution case restricted to allegations that overseas central bank officials, rather than any ministers, were bribed between 1999 and 2004. This is despite evidence suggesting that alleged bribes were paid by the RBA firms until late 2009 and that overseas politicians may have been complicit in the scandal.  
One well-placed source said he was told informally by the federal police that the agency was told its investigation was "not to go certain places".

A prominent opposition MP said the Malaysian public deserved to know why Mr Najib or his representatives had personally met with officers from one of the RBA firms in Malaysia.

"These questions could not come at a more important time in Malaysia," said Rafizi Ramli, Secretary-General of the People's Justice Party, referring to a series of huge corruption scandals that threaten to engulf Mr Najib.

Mr Rafizi warned that "the Australian government will be seen as being complicit with Mr Najib in his effort to stay in power" if it went to further lengths to prevent disclosure of crucial information.

Fairfax Media has previously reported that a Malaysian middleman and former politician, Dato Abdullah Hasnan, sent an email to the RBA in November 2007 in which he stated he had "managed to personally convince my prime minister/Finance minister [Abdullah Badawi] and the Malaysian cabinet to accept and adopt the polymer bank note technology".

At the time of the email, Mr Najib was deputy prime minister and Mr Badawi was working alongside an alleged bribe payer.

Malaysia's failure to respond to the federal government assistance request in the bribery case underscores the flimsy nature of regional anti-corruption efforts, which are routinely undermined by politicians blocking investigations that threaten them or their associates.  
A well-placed Canberra source told Fairfax Media that Mr Najib's government had blocked the mutual assistance request because of the suspected involvement of top Malaysian officials.

The refusal from Malaysia has hampered efforts by the Commonwealth Director of Public Prosecutions to make its case that former senior executives from two Reserve Bank firms conspired to bribe Malaysian officials. The Attorney-General's Department declined to comment.

The Malaysian government is under further pressure from revelations last month from Fairfax Media that senior Malaysian officials were involved in in an unrelated bribery scandal involving the purchase of multimillion-dollar Australian properties. The properties were bought by a Malaysian government agency in return for kickbacks wired to Malaysian officials by Australian developers.

The Fairfax Media reports sparked raids by the federal police and the recent suspension of two top officials from Malaysian agency MARA, Datuk Mohammad Lan Allani and Datuk Abdul Halim Abdul Rahim. 

Malaysia's largest financial scandal, however, involves allegations that nearly $700 million from a sovereign wealth fund, 1Malaysia Development Berhad (1MDB), was siphoned into a private bank account in Mr Najib's name.

Mr Najib has said he did not take any funds for personal gain. Media outlets and bloggers have reportedly been threatened with legal action for reporting the allegations.


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/bribery-scandal-linked-to-malaysian-prime-minister-najib-razak-20150714-gib8nr.html#ixzz3fqmkDOO4

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RE: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - Gobbledock - 07-14-2015

Now who would've thought - Malaysian politicians and reserve banks in bed together copulating!

And an even bigger surprise - Australian politicians talking tough and 'asking questions', and as usual being told to piss off. Yep, back on your knees where you belong Tony, Farmboy and the little short Sheila with a big ego...........

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RE: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - Gobbledock - 07-24-2015

The Crystal Ball Bearded Beaker - 
MH 370 will be found next year!!

"KUALA LUMPUR: Martin Dolan of the Australian Transport Safety Bureau, who is leading the search in the southern Indian Ocean, is confident the wreckage of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 will be found soon, according to Express News"

He is an amazing super sleuth, maybe he using some black magic voodoo as well?

Link to the 'FreeBeaker today' article below;
P.S * Parental warning* The article contains pictures of Beaker with beard.

http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/nation/2015/07/24/australia-mh370-will-be-found-in-the-next-year/

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RE: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - Peetwo - 07-24-2015

(07-24-2015, 12:22 PM)Gobbledock Wrote:  The Crystal Ball Bearded Beaker -
MH 370 will be found next year!!

"KUALA LUMPUR: Martin Dolan of the Australian Transport Safety Bureau, who is leading the search in the southern Indian Ocean, is confident the wreckage of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 will be found soon, according to Express News"

Link to the 'FreeBeaker today' article below;
P.S * Parental warning* The article contains pictures of Beaker with beard.

http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/nation/2015/07/24/australia-mh370-will-be-found-in-the-next-year/

Here you go Gobbles  {Caution: PG rating plus Bucket, crystal ball & lie detector maybe required... }

Quote:Australia: MH370 will be found in the next year


Joe Fernandez
 | July 24, 2015

Despite the most expensive search in aviation history, not a single trace of the aircraft, its contents or passengers have been found.


KUALA LUMPUR: Martin Dolan of the Australian Transport Safety Bureau, who is leading the search in the southern Indian Ocean, is confident the wreckage of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 will be found soon, according to Express News.

Despite the most expensive search in aviation history not a single trace of the aircraft, its contents or passengers have been found.

Dolan said: “Once we started looking and defining the search area, it became quite clear it could take up to two years. We still remain confident it will be found in the next year.”
He added that all the analysis they have puts the aircraft somewhere in a large search area. “We have no more information that would allow us to calculate a different area and governments accept that.”

Half of the 120,000 sq km area has been searched so far, with the next half due to be scoured over the next year, he said.

There have been numerous theories over the past year of where the plane could have possibly gone down, with various witnesses saying it could be in the Bay of Bengal after seeing a low-flying aircraft over the Maldives at the time of MH370′s disappearance.
But Dolan has rejected these theories, saying: “All the information we have puts the aircraft in a defined search area. The crew and equipment being used are excellent and the data we are receiving is of a quality beyond the specifications yet.”

“If we have to search the entire area, it will be completed this time next year but we expect to find the aircraft before then.”

Earlier this month, it was revealed a Maldivian toddler playing a ball game with his father was the reason behind the Maldives theory after he spotted a plane flying over their island which is not under a flight path. However, the country’s civil aviation authority dismissed the theory and said it was probably a domestic flight and “neither the route nor the timing support that theory”.

Two months ago Australia said it will contribute an extra £40.48 million over the next two years to locate the plane if it is not found during the current official search.

It is joined by Malaysia and China in its current search and the three countries will continue to take responsibility for now in a 16-month investigation which is estimated to have cost £71 million.

It has been 500 days since the Boeing 777 went missing with its 239 passengers and crew as it flew from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing on March 8 last year. Prime Minister Najib Razak said at the time the plane’s transponder, which emits signals, was “deliberately disabled”. The latest data shows it then continued for at least seven hours before crashing into the Indian Ocean, he said.

MTF...P2

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RE: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - Kharon - 07-25-2015

P2 BANNED.

There are limits to AP moderator patience, tolerance and forbearance.   We can, at a pinch, tolerate the fantasy world cartoon SITB produces with the childlike vision of the world; we even tolerate pictures of various undesirables; but we have had enough of smirking, well fed, bearded faces, and the posting of the Dolan picture with beard is the straw which did for P2.  

P2 banned for 10 seconds and off the Choc frog list for two minutes.   Bad P2,. Naughty.  I had not even had a slurp of first coffee and the first thing I see is the Dolan visage.  Wicked, bad boy.

There was also a call for additional penalty, for presenting false and misleading information; however Thorny and P7 pleaded for a counselling session and a published correction.  Beaker does not and never has had a crystal ball.  The world knows his Mum reads his tea leaves after morning tea in a special china cup.  It is also a fact that she has developed a new method of including the crumbs from the dunked biscuits.  One of these has been identified as ‘something metallic’, mysterious and hidden in water.  As that particular crumb is now close to the top of the fancy china cup; the time of discovery is approaching.

This theory is likely to be considered valid by certain MH 370 watchers, who have not, as yet, called in a clairvoyant to provide clues; which is surprising really, when you think about some of theories published.  

Toot toot…  …  …  …

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