Airports - Buy two, get one free. - Printable Version

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RE: Airports - Buy two, get one free. - Peetwo - 06-25-2015

(06-25-2015, 12:01 PM)Gobbledock Wrote:  Fawcetts speech was articulate, sensible, technical and clear. This was a speech from a man well versed, knowledgeable and experienced in aviation matters, a man who understands the parameters of operations, infrastructure, technology and planning. A man actually interested in aviation. Can you imagine the crusty headed Farmboy delivering such a quality presentation?? Even if his beloved PMC wrote the speech word for word old Farmboy wouldn't have a clue what any of it meant!

To put it bluntly Senator Fawcett is the man who needs to be placed in the role of Junior Minister for Aviation, sooner rather than later. We have experienced  decades of failed policy, failed planning, failed investment and a failed understanding of the importance of aviation in this country. We are decades behind the eight ball, and behind most other western countries. Imagine someone like Fawcett as junior aviation minister for lets say 5 years? 5 years in which he fosters and introduces positive change, puts us on a strong future track, reforms the alphabet soup bureaucracies, builds a strong aviation framework, and mentors a handful of close comrades who will take up the mantle when the good Senator retires. I know, it's the stuff that dreams are made of, but by god it would be great!

There is a serious lack of understanding about just how critical it is that in a country like Australia we have modern airport and aviation infrastructure. Aviation is the lifeblood of any country, particularly a country as diverse and challenging as Australia. Aviation keeps the economy not only ticking over and bringing in revenue, it enables the country to move forward, literally, on a day by day and hour by hour basis. Although some city Lord Mayors or regional Council CEO's don't always realise it, their local airport and associated infrastructure is the most valuable asset in their community/region. It's about time that we had people positioned in federal and state Government that supported this fact and ensured that needed funds be pumped in as and when needed, and not use airport and aviation services such as ASA as cash cows in which millions and even billions are raped from the asset and then pissed into the wind. 

When it comes to Australian aviation it is time to spend wisely, invest wisely and act wisely.

Gobbles although you have made plenty of fine posts on here and on the UP, that is one of the most passionate, eloquent & well written posts I think you've ever made - well done that man!



Ironical really but on my stint to monitor the UP (thanks P1... ), I came across another Dick Smith instigated thread, that very much reflects much of what you said in your post, including the idea of an aviation adviser for the miniscule.

Dick Smith:  

Quote:BANKSTOWN AIRPORT’S CEO 100% CORRECT

---

In the June issue of AVIATOR Magazine, the CEO of Bankstown Airport, Colin Grove, has been quoted as follows:

Quote:According to Grove, the biggest challenge he faces is what he describes as the decline in GA. “We are very aware that many of the traditional business models that drive the industry are no longer viable and some businesses are definitely struggling. If the industry is to remain financially viable then Governments will need to seriously address the concerns raised by the various industry peak bodies such as AOPA and the RAAA and there will need to be a complete mindset change in how regulations are imposed and a transparent assessment of the impact they have on the aviation industry.”

Never have truer words been spoken!

Of course, there are many who will put some of the blame on the owners of Bankstown Airport but that blame has to go back to John Anderson and the people in the Department of Transport at that time for the way they sold-off Bankstown Airport.

What’s more to the point is that if CASA went ahead with reforming the rules so they were as efficient as those in other leading aviation countries, such as the USA and Canada, we would not have some of the problems at Bankstown.

Last time I walked around Bankstown Airport many of the hangar doors were chained and the hangars themselves were being used just to store junk inside and I am told by everyone that it’s getting worse.

It’s interesting that Warren Truss makes no statements about the dire straits the industry is in and in an address by CASA Director of Aviation Safety, Mark Skidmore, at the AOPA gathering at Bankstown Airport last Saturday (20 June), once again there was no mention of removing every unnecessary cost.

A good start would be for Warren Truss to put on an advisor who clearly understands the dismal situation our general aviation industry is in. Over the years I have recommended some capable people for the role of Aviation Advisor but not one has ever been interviewed.

I see no changes at all on the horizon with Mr Truss as Minister and Mr Mrdak as Head of the Department. Does anyone have a more positive view?

 
Bravo Dick, may I suggest that you give Senator's Fawcett, Sterle, Heffernan & Xenophon a buzz, cause the clock is ticking to the inevitable sad demise of the once proud GA industry in this country...



Tick..tick..tick..tick

 

MTF...P2   

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RE: Airports - Buy two, get one free. - thorn bird - 06-25-2015

Well guys,
I'm somewhat doubtful the airports act will protect the secondaries.
The right "donations" to the right political parties, directorships to retiring politicians and bureaucrats, farms in NZ seems to work wonders.

Hoxton Park was a federal airport, gone like a fart in a thunderstorm, the act didn't save it.

Consider Moorabin. The airport lease was sold to a family trust, who got in trouble with a development and moved it, with the debt, to a public company registered in LIECHTENSTEIN.
If I read the Airports act correctly, a trust nor a foreign company can NOT own an airport lease.
Conveniently swept aside!
Where is the holder of the head lease for Sydney airport registered..hmm wouldn't be another world recognised tax haven would it? A Billion a year in turnover, not one cent of tax paid! Consistently voted one of the worst major airports in the world. Just how much has the owner invested in actual NEW infrastructure for aviation since it took the lease? For a major 1st world airport would it not be too much to ask for Low Vis approaches?? Na! if YOU or the Guvmint want to pay for it, fine with us, then we will charge you a premium to use it!!

Money making machine?? Yup, compare the ticket price on a train to Mascot, probably cheaper to take a cab or even rent a Limo. Why? Just how much does McBank charge for space UNDER the airport?

As Sen. NX said, privatization has been an unmitigated disaster.

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RE: Airports - Buy two, get one free. - Peetwo - 06-29-2015

With all the ASA squabbling between Dick & Angus etc...etc., plus that disgustingly, condescending, bollocks missive from Skid-Mark, Airport issues have taken a somewhat backward step despite being the subject of a fair amount of media coverage of late.

So backtracking a little...

First there was Camden airport announcing (with very little fan-fair) the release of their Preliminary Draft Master Plan; from Dougy:

Quote:


Camden Airport draft plan available
23 Jun 2015

Camden Airport Limited has prepared and placed on public exhibition its 2015 Preliminary Draft Master Plan including the Airport Environment Strategy for Camden Airport.

Importantly, the document will retain the fundamental concepts of the current 2010 Master Plan.

The Preliminary Draft Master Plan details the intention to continue to develop Camden Airport to support the growth and expansion of Western Sydney, as well as providing ongoing quality infrastructure to support the general aviation activities in the Sydney basin. 

An important part of the development of the Plan is the public release of the 2015 Preliminary Draft Master Plan (PDMP) including the Airport Environment Strategy for Camden Airport. 

The period of formal public exhibition and consultation on these documents will be 24 June 2015 until 15 September 2015. 

CAL is undertaking wide consultation with the community, making the documents available at three local venues as well as undertaking a letterbox delivery to local residents in the Camden area, primarily affected by the Airport.
 
The document is available electronically on the Camden Airport website.[/url]

Then on Wednesday last week the Airports Amendment Bill 2015 (see above) was debated & subsequently passed without amendment but with some condemnation & dire warnings by Senators Rhiannon & Xenophon:

Which Ben followed up yesterday with this post... :

Quote:[url=http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2015/06/28/xenophon-hits-out-at-2nd-sydney-airport-monopoly-risks/]Xenophon hits out at 2nd Sydney Airport ‘monopoly’ risks

Ben Sandilands | Jun 28, 2015 4:28PM |


Senator Nick Xenophon in his element, unloading on fundamental issues ignored by major parties

One of the disturbing things about Sydney’s much needed second airport at Badgerys Creek is the unwillingness of the major parties to do anything to break the monopoly pricing situation that would arise if it becomes owned by the same interests as the existing airport.

Last week in the Senate Nick Xenophon, the independent Senator for South Australia, refused to be a part of that in no uncertain terms.

He not only spoke about the damage that would be done to the Sydney economy by having both of its major airports controlled by the same interests, but, under privilege, drew attention to claims that the owners of Sydney Airport have paid no tax on an enterprise which has not only abused its pricing power but delivered over $1 billion in ‘fees’ to advisers and financiers.

Given the benefits of privilege being applied to matters the opposition seems incapable of dealing with, and that the coalition government prefers not to address while trying to screw ordinary working people (or voters) . there is below in italics  an extract from the Hansard of Senator Xeonphon’s ignored speech on the second reading of a bill to facilitate the new airport...

...A countervailing view was given by coalition Senator David Fawcett, which can be seen on YouTube here.


Senator Fawcett’s point that the owners of Sydney Airport and other major gateway airports that were privatised by the Howard government have in fact invested well in improving the passenger experience is a reasonable one, unless you are an airline shareholder or a passenger who pays for his or her own parking. Which on reflection, might seem like a lot of voters too.

He also made some critical observations as to how private or local government ownership of regional airports isn’t working as hoped for, leaving many of them struggling to raised the funds to provide essential aviation services including fire fighting at various locations.
We might conclude from this that he is not in favor of a hard nosed approach that could be summarised as ‘Let them burn.’ The issue of upkeep and safety at regional airports is unlikely to ever capture political will in this country until there is a very ugly incident, when their will be a stampede of concerned platitudes from hypocrites on both sides of parliament.

 
Next, on Thursday the NSW Labor leader made another low fanfare announcement in the NSW Parliament, which Oz Flying covered here - Bankstown Airport Problematic: Foley..

Quote:NSW Opposition Leader Luke Foley has told state parliament that Bankstown Airport will be "problematic" in the future.

In a speech to parliament last night, Foley said that the rise of Western Sydney Airport would create air traffic issues and that the future of Bankstown needed to be considered.
"In future decades, as the new Western Sydney airport grows and becomes the flourishing aviation centre that Western Sydney deserves, airspace requirements will mean that the operation of Bankstown airport will become increasingly problematic," the Hansard recorded.

"Planning and consultation around developing it as an employment centre needs to be initiated now. Part of this process will involve resolving where Bankstown's air traffic will go. Some of it, of course, can be relocated to the new airport.

"The Bankstown site is situated between the M5 and the Hume Highway. With the right planning, investment and infrastructure it can be a major employment zone for jobs of the future in south-western Sydney.

"Our global economic corridor cannot be limited to Sydney's north and east. We must stretch the global arc to Sydney's south and west. It is easy to imagine Bankstown as the next Macquarie Park or Norwest Business Park, full of tens of thousands of high-wage jobs and providing employment opportunities for local people in Sydney's south and west."

Foley's remarks, which come only weeks after the holding company that owns the leases for both Bankstown and Camden, BAC Holdco, was put up for sale, seem to lack a level of credibility given that there has yet to be any suggestion that Western Sydney Airport will carry general aviation

  
..& Hitch later commented on in his weekly wrap...

Quote:..Sydney's GA airports have been put in the spotlight this week with the release of the Camden Preliminary Draft Master Plan, then NSW Opposition Leader Luke Foley standing up in parliament and saying effectively that Bankstown should be converted into a high-tech business park. Camden's PDMP tells us that there's not a lot planned to change down there because the airport is running well under capacity, and other than the air museum's potential relocation from Bankstown, there's also not a lot on the horizon for non-aviation development either. Of course, the great jumbo in the airspace is Western Sydney Airport. Once you plonk that in the middle of the Sydney basin, things are bound to change everywhere. However, one thing that is unlikely to happen regardless of what Mr Foley says, is the relocation of GA traffic to Western Sydney. I will concede that something will have to happen, but we can assess that when the airport finally opens...

Finally on Friday there was this article from the Oz..

Quote:Regional airports ‘lack funds for infrastructure’  

• by: LISA ALLEN
  
• From: The Australian
  
• June 26, 2015 12:00AM
  

Property & Tourism Reporter
Sydney



Pilot Toby Dorn with Blue Sky Airlines’ Jerry Schwartz at Sydney’s Watsons Bay. Source: Supplied

Regional airport owners, particularly cash-strapped local councils, say they have insufficient funds to fix their aviation infrastructure — potentially crippling local tourism and business interests.  

More than 50 per cent of 400 airport owners responding to a survey by the Australian Airports Association in April said the lack of state and commonwealth funding to secure infrastructure upgrades was their biggest problem.

“Many of our smaller regional airports are World War II era and due to financial pressures often a patch-up is done rather than the substantive works required. You can only patch up runways for so long and there are many airports that are now facing ‘end of life’ issues with pavements,” said AAA chief executive Caroline Wilkie.

Without Commonwealth or state funding, regional airports faced an impossible task to upgrade to meet their future needs — particularly runways, taxiways and terminals.

“A case in point is Coober Pedy where without support from the South Australian government they would not have been able to upgrade their runway and would have potentially lost their REX service,” Ms Wilkie said.

The West Australian government has invested in its state airport infrastructure while the NSW government is poised to spend more than $100m.

Despite the funding pledge, one of Australia’s largest private hoteliers, Dr Jerry Schwartz, is deeply concerned about the state of Cessnock Airport, north of Sydney, because it cannot accommodate commercial planes because of poor infrastructure.

Dr Schwartz, who has invested more than $100 million building three hotels in the Hunter Region, including the Crowne Plaza Hunter Valley, estimates that tourism numbers to the region could be lifted by as much as 20 per cent if commercial flights were available from Sydney.

After fruitless discussions with Cessnock Council, which owns Cessnock Airport, Dr Schwartz resorted to buying his own amphibious sea plane, a Lake Sea Fury LA250, to ferry guests from Sydney’s Rose Bay to Cessnock. He plans to charge $250 one way and says if the flights are popular he will start his own airline, to be called Blue Sky Airlines.

“We are more or less launching our own airline. The away around the regulations is to have charter flights, with scheduled flights starting between Rose Bay, Newcastle Harbour and Cessnock Airport from October,” he said.

“To get tourists to areas more than a couple of hours drive from their home you need different forms of transportation. In the Hunter Valley you don’t have trains.
“We are blessed in the Hunter Valley with an airport but unfortunately it is not used because it has not been converted to take scheduled flights.”

However, the Cessnock Council has commissioned an external study and a master plan of the airport.

“It needs fences built around it which would cost $500,000. The second thing is for scheduled flights you need ground staff, and there are no ground staff,” Dr Schwartz said.

“I would say easily an airport would increase tourists by 10-20 per cent because the Hunter Valley would be made more accessible.”

Dr Schwartz said he had spent more than $60m developing a hotel in the Hunter Valley.
“It’s certainly not the core business of local council to finance and open airports. If they have the facilities and knowledge to do it fair enough, but if not they should sell or lease it.’’

However, Cessnock Council’s planning and property manager, Bronwyn Rumble, said the airport was used for tourism-related purposes. “We have a lot of tourism-based aviation like joy flights and scenic helicopter flights. (But) there is currently no regular passenger transport services. That is probably due to our proximity to Newcastle airport, which is about 45 minutes by road.

“If someone approached us and wanted to introduce regular passenger transport we would need to look at the infrastructure that would need to be provided to support that service.

“We are currently undertaking a strategic council review looking at all the council properties and their best use and that includes the airport. We are also developing a master plan for the future development of the airport.”

Meanwhile, the NSW government had nearly doubled the investment allocated to regional airport upgrades in recognition of the significant tourism and services they provide, Regional Development Minister John Barilaro said.

Mr Barilaro said the Regional Tourism Infrastructure Fund would deliver up to $100m for 25 short-listed projects to help grow regional economies in NSW.

“The RTIF projects progressing to the next stage have the greatest potential to make an immediate economic impact and stimulate growth across NSW,” Mr Barilaro said.

The short-listed regional airports include Broken Hill, Lismore and Moree in northern NSW as well as Wagga Wagga and Griffith in southern NSW.

The short-listed regional airport projects will be invited to submit detailed applications by August 31.

Meanwhile, Ms Wilkie said privatisation was an option that some large regional airports were considering.

“But this option has limited application for small regional aerodromes that are running at a loss. The use of private operators has increased over the past five years, but this has predominantly been at airports associated with mines in regional Queensland and regional Western Australia,” she said.

“Ultimately regional access via aerodromes is critical for the ongoing economic success of regional Australia and as such are just as worthy an investment for the commonwealth as roads infrastructure.”

The need for major infrastructure investment remained the main challenge of 22 per cent of small regional airports in the AAA survey and was included among the top three challenges of 51 per cent of small airport respondents.

Quote:"..CASA regulations also remained the main issue for large regional airports, with 22 per cent of survey respondents ranking it their top challenge and 61 per cent including it within their top three challenges.."

Security and associated costs were also mentioned by many large regional airports as major issues, and were included in the top three challenges of 51 per cent of respondents.

Staffing, funding, capacity and asset management were also among the main concerns while CASA regulations remained the main issue for small regional airports, with 31 per cent of respondents ranking it their top challenge and 58 per cent including it within their top three challenges.

A further 53 per cent include the cost of compliance within their top three challenges.
Other issues including difficulties retaining staff and the costs and availability of appropriate training. These were also presented as problems particularly for small regional airports.

MTF...P2

Addendum - miniscule's presser on Airports Amendment Bill 2015

Western Sydney airport moves another step closer

Media Release

WT187/2015

25 June 2015



The passage of the Airports Amendment Bill 2015 through parliament overnight brings an airport for Western Sydney another step closer.


Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Infrastructure and Regional Development Warren Truss said the Bill reflects the Australian Government's commitment to build an airport for Western Sydney.


“The Airports Amendment Bill 2015 will allow key planning documentation to be prepared for Western Sydney Airport in conjunction with the environmental assessment process, which is currently underway,” Mr Truss said.


“The Bill will allow for an airport plan to be developed for Badgerys Creek which will authorise the initial development for a Western Sydney airport and specify the Australian Government's requirements for the proposed airport.


“A finalised airport plan will be dependent on the Environment Minister's assessment of the environmental considerations raised in the environmental impact statement, and will be bound by conditions imposed to protect the environment.


“The Government is committed to undertaking a robust environmental approval process with the opportunity for community consultation.


“The Bill recognises the unique requirements of a greenfield airport by combining separate approval processes that could take years to complete into one streamlined and transparent approval process, while guaranteeing the community's right to be fully consulted.


Mr Truss said the Bill will also ensure that a range of commercial options remain open when it comes to developing a new airport in Western Sydney.


“Under Section 18 of the Airports Act 1996, Sydney (Kingsford Smith) Airport and Sydney West Airport—as it is known in the Act—must be under common ownership,” Mr Truss said.


“The Airports Amendment Bill will remove this requirement, providing the Australian Government with the commercial flexibility to deal with third parties or develop the airport itself if agreement cannot be reached with Sydney Airport.


“This is supported by the removal of airport cross ownership restrictions on the Sydney West Airport, which will help maximise the success of any market offering should Sydney Airport Group choose not to exercise their option to develop and operate the proposed new airport.”


Mr Truss thanked the Opposition for supporting the measures, and noted the importance of ongoing bipartisanship to the development of an airport for Western Sydney.


The Government is currently undertaking complex and detailed planning towards an operational airport by the mid-2020s that will generate long-term economic benefits, thousands of jobs and meet the needs of Western Sydney's growing population.

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Urgent change required - NOW - Gobbledock - 06-29-2015

I have read through P2's informative post above. Well done with compiling that information from the various avenues.

If we combine these airport issues which include contaminated land, outdated/inefficient infrastructure, lack of Government spending, and a myriad other issues you can see the grey clouds swelling. Top this off with a complete decline in aviation safety standards, unworkable regulation, costly compliance, three aviation portfolios (alphabet soup organisations) that are out of touch and falling apart at the seams, allegations of land development corruption, major airports turning over billion dollar profits while paying no tax, Mandarins covering up shortcomings and a Miniscule who is out of touch, not interested and not educated in aviation matters which are the vein of our Country, and you see that we have a major major problem. IMO a problem that has exceeded it's boundary, is past it's used by date and needs urgent attention now.

Many of us have said once and will say it again - if you want to start on the fix then we urgently need a junior Minister for aviation. Someone who is a specialist in the sense that he/she understands aviation which in itself is a complex field covering multiple jurisdictions and parameters.

Abbot or the next Government need to address this critical issue. It is a big issue. It is an expensive issue. It is an issue that needs to be addressed by a full time Minister for aviation dedicated to this one portfolio which is worth tens of billions of dollars per year and directly impacts our countries sustainability.

Next........

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RE: Airports - Buy two, get one free. - Kharon - 06-30-2015

Ben Sandilands – Plane Talking on Crikey.

Quote:One of the disturbing things about Sydney’s much needed second airport at Badgerys Creek is the unwillingness of the major parties to do anything to break the monopoly pricing situation that would arise if it becomes owned by the same interests as the existing airport.

Last week in the Senate Nick Xenophon, the independent Senator for South Australia, refused to be a part of that in no uncertain terms.

He not only spoke about the damage that would be done to the Sydney economy by having both of its major airports controlled by the same interests, but, under privilege, drew attention to claims that the owners of Sydney Airport have paid no tax on an enterprise which has not only abused its pricing power but delivered over $1 billion in ‘fees’ to advisers and financiers.

Given the benefits of privilege being applied to matters the opposition seems incapable of dealing with, and that the coalition government prefers not to address while trying to screw ordinary working people (or voters) . there is below in italics  an extract from the Hansard of Senator Xeonphon’s ignored speech on the second reading of a bill to facilitate the new airport.

Always worth a read, the comments section fascinating.  No one seems to care if the new aerodrome is built to ‘modern’ standards anticipating new innovations or even Cat III; just who gets the dollars – don’t worry about the sense.  Top charges for third world services – guaranteed.  Ripper tune, Alice.

Quote:michael r james
Posted June 29, 2015 at 7:34 pm | PERMALINK
#6
Norman, Ben has redacted names from my posts on several occasions. Crikey are very sensitive to it because a defamation case essentially bankrupted the founder of Crikey, Stephen Mayne (who I think actually lost his home). Because Crikey is too small to fend off expensive lawyers from the big gorillas in this world.

In fact the culprits are named in Ben’s article above, in the citation of Xenophon (though note, that was made under protection of Hansard). The insider nature of this story is so outrageous and overt I think it reflects poorly on Australia that no one didn’t take it to the courts. We need a Ralph Nader type of organisation. I suppose NSW ICAC could do it?

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RE: Airports - Buy two, get one free. - Gobbledock - 06-30-2015

Well said 'K';

Always worth a read, the comments section fascinating. No one seems to care if the new aerodrome is built to ‘modern’ standards anticipating new innovations or even Cat III; just who gets the dollars – don’t worry about the sense. Top charges for third world services – guaranteed. Ripper tune, Alice.

So true so true. If, where and absolutely when possible a new airport must be planned with Cat 3 in mind. Otherwise it is like building a bloody single lane highway between Sydney and Bankstown. Cheaper initially, but in 5 years time you need a second lane wich costs triple the original cost. Then another 5 years later it's time for lane number 3, this time at 10 times the original cost. So in total you have 10 years of traffic woes and insufficient infrastructure and in the end you have a 20 billion dollar cost that could have been done for 3 billion initially. Hopefully you get my point.

It's time that our Governments planned for the future, not for 24 or so months until the next election. Next time Australian Pollies are rorting an overseas junket maybe head to Japan, China or the Arab Emirates to see how it is done properly - plan 10 to 20 years in advance. But to do so you need people in government that have not only the smarts, but the balls to make the big decisions and run with it, knowing that the completion of the project will probably take place some time in the future well past the lifetime of their own personal political career. It's called putting the interests of your country first, not your own personal interests.

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RE: Airports - Buy two, get one free. - Peetwo - 07-02-2015

Dick Smith - I despair!

The following quoted post from Dick highlights a couple of important points...

1st - Watch out Farmer Truss...   

Quote:OZBUSDRIVER


Thanks for your post (#5). Unfortunately goIng to Warren Truss would be a complete waste of time. In the ten years Mr Truss has been either Minister for Aviation or in the shadow portfolio, I haven’t seen one thing he has done that is pro-general aviation. In fact, I don’t believe I have ever heard him express an opinion one way or the other about anything.

Imagine becoming the Deputy Prime Minister of this country and not having even one view on some change you would like to make to improve the situation of the people who work in the industry that is covered by your portfolio.

...And while this is happening the Minister’s Aviation Advisor, the Head of the Department, Mr Mrdak and Mr Truss all think they are doing a great job. Even Sir Angus Houston is quoted in The Australian as saying that the introduction of ADS-B years ahead of other leading aviation countries is wonderful for Australia. 

Next - Deciphering the bureaucratic weasel words...

Quote:There is no doubt that the head agreement shows that the lessee must operate the airport as an aerodrome, but I presume there is nothing in the “fine print” that says they have to give aeroplanes access to hangars. This negotiation has gone backwards-and-forwards for a month now and they have not budged on our requirement that we have access to a taxiway to get aircraft in and out of our hangar.


And yes, I did build the hangar over twenty years ago and I presume I still own the hangar as it is just a site lease for the land.

Last - Know where to pick your fights?

Quote:And CLARE PROP – you say


“this is an area where you could really help GA”.

As you have probably noticed from my posts on this site, I am spending a lot of time at the moment doing everything I can to try and assist the GA industry in Australia. Fighting Bankstown Airport Limited in Court would be a huge misallocation of my finite time and resources. Right from the Minister’s office down there seems to be a deficiency of basic ethics and this means hundreds-of-thousands, if not millions, of dollars could be spent in Court action and still get absolutely nowhere.

It’s so sad to see so many hangars locked up with chains and when you peer in through gaps you see they are being used to store junk.

I despair.

Well Dick your not on your own there but from where I'm observing you seem to be gaining traction - although I don't think the UP is doing you a hell of a lot of favours..

MTF...P2

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RE: Airports - Buy two, get one free. - thorn bird - 07-02-2015

Had a chat with an operator today who has just moved into a heritage listed Hangar at Bankstown. The lessee did all the right things, advising BAL of the renovations he required to make the sight utilizable. When he started renovations, found the place riddled with white ants, asbestos everywhere and overall in a dilapidated condition which would have been completely unsafe to run a business from.

Now I always imagined a landlord renovated a sight to prepare it for the tenant.

In BAL's case the tenant renovates, so BAL can claim capital improvements to later increase the rent.

The poor tenant paid a poltus to make the dilapidated building safe, let alone be functional for his business, at rates way above off airport sights. BAL approved his renovation plan but having spent the money BAL added insult to injury and dobbed him in to the heritage people for carrying out unapproved renovation.

They should talk!! Anyone seen the state of the Public toilet block at the airport...Yuck!...or the heritage listed WW2 head quarters building?

They could have told him that at the start. Its convenient they use the excuse that Bankstown is "Commonwealth Land" so normal rules don't apply when it suits them, but invokes State laws when it doesn't.

Everyone paying a lease at Bankstown should examine their bill. In it they will find they are charged for Rates??? An inquiry with Bankstown council finds no council rates are or have ever been paid by BAL.
So what are the "rates" charged to lessee's at the airport? other than another Fraud.
A certain Pumkin headed mandarin sure has a lot to answer for, for what he signed off on.
Whatever he got or is yet to get sure must have been worth it.

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Of Uncle Sam vs our Can'tberra sham - Gobbledock - 07-02-2015

Let's dig down into the relevance of GA shall we? From the land of Stars and Stripes comes this article;

"GA contributes $219 billion and 1.1 million jobs to U.S. economy"-

http://generalaviationnews.com/2015/02/11/ga-contributes-219-billion-and-1-1-million-jobs-to-u-s-economy/

Ok, so we aren't the USA, but my point is that GA provides both jobs and much needed moolah that feeds into the economy. FFS, why don't our politicians get this? For far to long Australian GA has been treated as some sort of annoyance, a thorn in the side of the entire nation, a mysterious creature that most don't understand so let's stomp on it like it is a bug!

There is a serious lack of knowledge and understanding in Australia about Helo operations, small charters, tourism, Ag, flight and maintenance training schools, owner operators, joyflighters and the list goes on. The industry, as mentioned before, creates jobs from which all individuals pay tax. There is a flow on affect on to other parts of the aviation industry as well as the fuel industry, parts, import/export, ground handling, infrastructure building and maintenance, airports, etc etc etc. and let's not forget essential services such as freight, mail, medical and community services. This is just a snapshot off the top of my head and doesn't cover the half of it.

So Miniscule, it might pay for you to ponder over this for just a moment as you, as DPM, preside over a portfolio that you are either just to disengaged to be interested in, simply do not understand and just couldn't be bothered to understand it, or you don't have the balls to step up to the plate, take your portfolio by the short and curly's and finally do something before it is to late.

Farmboy said;

“Under Section 18 of the Airports Act 1996, Sydney (Kingsford Smith) Airport and Sydney West Airport—as it is known in the Act—must be under common ownership,” Mr Truss said.

“The Airports Amendment Bill will remove this requirement, providing the Australian Government with the commercial flexibility to deal with third parties or develop the airport itself if agreement cannot be reached with Sydney Airport.

Hmmm, well seeing is believing. However should the Government of the day (whoever that will be) grow the balls to go through with this and break the monopoly then we could see some profits finally remain in-house and spent on other aviation infrastructure. Imagine an airport generating billions in revenue and that coin being put back into the industry??? But I'm not holding my breath.

On a final note here is a good reason why profits need to be put back into infrastructure sooner rather than later;

“Many of our smaller regional airports are World War II era and due to financial pressures often a patch-up is done rather than the substantive works required. You can only patch up runways for so long and there are many airports that are now facing ‘end of life’ issues with pavements,” said AAA chief executive Caroline Wilkie.

Tick tock goes our lifeblood,tick tock

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RE: Airports - Buy two, get one free. - thorn bird - 07-02-2015

Gobbles well said,
Our primary airports operate as private businesses, turn over Billions every year, yet pay NO tax.
The Aviation industry languishes in Purgatory in Australia under the burden of incompetent regulation and abject corruption, while in New Zealand aviation is the second biggest contributor to GDP.
Which is why I have totally given up on embracing politics in Australia, absolute waste of time.

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RE: Airports - Buy two, get one free. - Bill Hamilton - 07-03-2015

(07-02-2015, 09:17 PM)thorn bird Wrote:  Folks,
One small correction to Senator X's last Senate speech reported here, and relevant to the substance of the thread.
Last time I looked, it seems to me Sydney Airport Company is not an Australian company ( Bermuda or BVA or somewhere like that) and if they own Sydney West, the same will apply.
The idea that all the GA at YSBK will relocate to Sydney West is laughable.
Cheers (or commiserations)
Bill H.

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RE: Airports - Buy two, get one free. - Kharon - 07-03-2015

The thing that gets me is the deliberate moves to eradicate aviation business, traffic, which is fundamental to running a successful airport; you need aircraft, pilots, engineers a good coffee shop and all the associated paraphernalia.  Look at Wilton, like Topsy, hangers being built, aircraft etc. etc.  Now if I owned an airport, I’d want those operations at my aerodrome, not half way to Wollongong.

However, if you were in the development game, you would want shut of the pesky aircraft and attendant hoop-la; so revenue from ‘traffic’ must be discouraged, leases must be a high court matter and the leaseholders just so many moving targets.  What’s next, speed bumps on the few taxiways which an aircraft may use, if it can gain access.

Not too many prizes for guessing the direction BAL intend to take.  The terminal and the toilets speak volumes.  Never been in a good pub or restaurant that had bad, filthy facilities, customers just wont wear it and yet the lambs at BK just let their airport and terminal get worse by day.  A for apathy.

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Xenophon can see through the Sydney airport sham (I mean scam) - Gobbledock - 07-03-2015

Here is a link to Nicks website and a succinct piece that he posted about airports;

http://www.nickxenophon.com.au/media/nicks-must-reads/show/xenophon-hits-out-at-2nd-sydney-airport-monopoly-risks/

Here is a snippet;

"Credible reports from Michael West and Fairfax Media show that Sydney Airport Corporation pays little or no tax to the federal government. According to Mr West—a very experienced business journalist—Sydney Airport did not pay any tax in its first 10 years but has delivered more than $1 billion in fees to advisers and financiers. Because it is a monopoly, it can afford to carry huge debts and it claims interest on that debt as a tax deduction. That effectively cancels out any profits. The real profits are soaked up in hundreds of millions of dollars in fees to its bankers and financiers, each year. It is a nice little earner.

This monopoly privatised corporate entity generates about $700 million in financing costs soaked up on Macquarie Bank clients, bankers, advisers and security holders. To quote Rupert Murdoch, ‘A monopoly is a terrible thing unless you happen to own one.’ No wonder the ACCC has openly questioned why Sydney Airport received a first right of refusal to operate a second Sydney airport. In its 2013 airport updates the ACCC said that separate owners of the two Sydney airports would encourage lower prices and increase capacity and quality for customers. But that is not to be".

Ben covers the rest of the article at Plane Talking.

P_666

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RE: Airports - Buy two, get one free. - Peetwo - 07-29-2015

Certainly been a bit quiet on here of late, I guess we have been somewhat distracted by the shenanigans at Fort Fumble and the pizzling that ASA has been copping at the hands of News Corp etc...etc.

Well to begin to make up for lost time I happened to intercept the following from the SMH today...

Quote:$161 million development plans for Bankstown Airport


Date July 29, 2015 - 1:13PM

• 147 reading now
  
• (29)
  
• Read later
  

Leesha McKenny
Urban Affairs Reporter

Bankstown Airport.

A 41-hectare slice of Bankstown Airport would be transformed into a "business park and family leisure destination", under a $161 million proposal that could herald a wave of redevelopment at the site.

With the state government considering new transport links to the area, a company owned by billionaire property investor Bob Ell is teaming up with the airport to put forward a plan for what they are calling the "Bankstown Business Estate". 

The Bankstown Airport site.

The proposal is to redevelop the parcel of non-aviation land on the south-west precinct of the airport for bulky goods retail, a factory outlet and restaurants, along with a business park. It would include more than 3000 car spaces.

Mr Ell's Leda Holdings took over the area in 2013 after the Bankstown Airport Corporation development company, known as BAC Devco, went into receivership before it could complete its own plans for the site.

"Leda views this as an exciting project that will deliver one of the largest employment opportunities for the south-western region of Sydney," said Mr Ell's son Robert, the company's managing director.

The plan's release comes two months after Bankstown and Camden airports were quietly put on the market by the Commonwealth site's main leaseholder, a consortium comprising AustralianSuper, Mirvac and Colonial First State.

About six parties are still in the running for the two sites, which have price expectations of more than $200 million.

"We're in the second round of the EOI at the moment," said Gavin Bishop of Colliers International, who added the sale had no bearing on Leda's plans.

"I think what Leda are doing is going to complement the balance of the airport anyway."
And more development could follow. A new masterplan, approved in January by Minister for Infrastructure and Regional Development Warren Truss, earmarks up to 130 hectares of the airport's land for "non-aviation" purposes.

The NSW government, meanwhile, is leaving open the question of what it should do to the area's transport links. Transport for NSW plans to convert the existing Bankstown Line to Bankstown station to a new "metro-style" rail service linking through the city.

But it has never explained what it wants to do to rail stations further west of Bankstown on the Bankstown Line. Transport academic Garry Glazebrook has suggested extending the metro line west directly to Liverpool on a new line through Bankstown Airport. Liverpool Council is also pushing for an extension of the metro.

Transport Minister Andrew Constance on Tuesday suggested plans remain up in the air, saying the new metro line "will be an enabling line which will see further opportunities for expansion ... including potentially to Liverpool onto Badgerys Creek".

Redevelopment of the airport already appears to have won the support of opposition leader Luke Foley, who last month told parliament that it could be a major employment zone "with the right planning, investment and infrastructure".

"It is easy to imagine Bankstown as the next Macquarie Park or Norwest Business Park, full of tens of thousands of high-wage jobs and providing employment opportunities for local people in Sydney's south and west," Mr Foley said.

But the south-west corner of the airport also come to the attention of Senate Estimates, which in February raised questions about fill previously used to build up the site.


Committee chair and Liberal Senator Bill Heffernan told Infrastructure and Regional Development staff that this work had destroyed a natural flood plain and would have a "serious impact" on nearby areas.


"You have a problem, boys," Senate Heffernan said.

The department's written responses state Bankstown Council had raised concerns in the past about the airport's flood management, but the two parties had since worked together, including on a joint flood management study. 

Robert Ell said: "The advice that we have been given by our consultants is that the site is fit for use for its intended purpose".

The council's general manager Matthew Stewart said it welcomed new job generating opportunities but would be making a submission to the plans.

"We would expect any development proposed for this land to be in line with the use and operations of Bankstown Airport; be supported by suitable infrastructure and transport links; and to be consistent with planning controls across our city and the Mid Georges River Flood Risk Management Plan," Mr Stewart said.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/161-million-development-plans-for-bankstown-airport-20150729-gim00r.html#ixzz3hGTnktUK

 
Perhaps Thorny can fill in some of the gaps, but for mine sadly I believe the writing is on the wall for dear old Bankstown...

Also in the (muted) news on Airports, was the AAT decision to affirm the review of former miniscule Albo's signing off on the Archerfield Airport DRAFT master plan,...

Archerfield Airport Chamber of Commerce Inc and Minister for Infrastructure and Regional Development [2015] AATA 489 (8 July 2015)
...what it all means I'll leave to those more qualified to comment...
Finally a couple of weeks ago I intercepted an article - off the other Aunty - which IMO highlights perfectly what airport authorities, aviation agencies and the department sometimes have to contend with in the pursuit of safer skies (& airports)...  

Quote:Gold Coast Airport Instrument Landing System opponent vows to fight on as feedback period closes


By Michelle Rafferty and Russell Varley
Posted 13 Jul 2015, 11:50amMon 13 Jul 2015, 11:50am

Community feedback on a proposed landing system for Gold Coast Airport closes today.

The Instrument Landing System (ILS) allows airlines to land in bad weather but there is growing opposition because of changed flight paths.

Sven Puetter from the residents' group Stop the Flight Path said the Federal Government needed to think carefully before making a decision on the project.

"The airport itself has a 99 per cent landing success rate and we need to ask the question as to why do 60,000 people need their living standard impacted to improve the landing success rate by less than 1 per cent?" he said.

"The cost is not worth the benefit and I think that's the question the Government need to find the answer for."

He said he planned to keep lobby the Federal Government because it would have the final say.

"We'll continue to put pressure where we can because it is important that our views are consistently out there in front of the public so they can stay across the issue," he said.

Gold Coast Airport chief operating officer David Collins said he was grateful the community had listened to the argument for the new system.

He said the airport would be given a chance to address community concerns with the Federal Government.

"All of those submissions will find their way to the Minister, the Minister for Infrastructure, and we will also provide responses to the Minister for those submissions."

Mr Collins said federal Transport Minister Warren Truss would have 50 business days to make a decision.

"We will combine the submissions, we will then put forward responses to all of those submissions and that summary with the submissions, all of the submissions that have been provided, will be forwarded to the Minister's office and he will then take regard to the submissions, our responses and he will then form his opinion as to whether he approves the ILS or not," he said.

He said the system would help the local tourism industry.

"We are the only international airport in the country that doesn't have an ILS and that does put us at a disadvantage, particularly from an international perspective," he said.

"When airlines are making decisions on whether or not they would look at a route they bring into the account the number of costs, one of which is the cost of diversions." 

"The airport itself has a 99 per cent landing success rate and we need to ask the question as to why do 60,000 people need their living standard impacted to improve the landing success rate by less than 1 per cent?"

FCOL... ...err no comment??
MTF...

 

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RE: Airports - Buy two, get one free. - Gobbledock - 07-29-2015

Minister Folly said;


Redevelopment of the airport already appears to have won the support of opposition leader Luke Foley, who last month told parliament that it could be a major employment zone "with the right planning, investment and infrastructure".

'Employment zone'? F#ck off you Muppet. You mean 'unemployment zone' for those who work at, use, or rely on Bankstown airport for a living. I think the 'employment opportunities' he refers to are for the developers and their, associates, family's and friends hell bent on indulging in gross capitalism while raping Bankstown airport.
Here is your first clue;

"It would include more than 3000 car spaces"

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RE: Airports - Buy two, get one free. - thorn bird - 09-01-2015

Could it be true??? Bankstown Airport is in the SH..T??

Now this is just a rumour, but??

It has been wispered that some Islamic folk  leased some ground at Bankstown Airport to build a school.

Unfortunately when the were putting down the foundations for their school the hole digger hit the Sh...t!!!

Seems nobody grasped the irony of BAL trying to put a girls school on top of a pile of sh..t.

After that the Sh..t really did hit the fan!!! The schoolies screamed Jihad!!

Court cases,  undisclosed settlements, confidentiality agreements, flying around everywhere.

This was allegedly a while ago but BAL had apparently parked the Islamic school right on top of an old night soil dump, that are scattered about the airport.

So lets see?  contaminated with live ammunition, asbestos tainted land fill, possibly radio active stuff as well,also Pbc's from the fire station and thousands of litres of bunker oil sprayed about to keep the dust down, now it seems  contaminated night soil trenches all over the place, no wonder the grass is so green!!

A destroyed flood plane potentially washing all that stuff into peoples backyards downstream.
Does an added pile of sh..t,  add insult to injury??

Just when will the Sh..t hit the fan minuscule, Property sharks should never be left in charge of airports!! 

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RE: Airports - Buy two, get one free. - Gobbledock - 09-01-2015

Thorny, Dieser Flughafen ist Shisen? Indeed it is!!!!

The Bankstown Chronicles get more interesting every day. At least we now understand why Wodger is such a head case and looks like a Simpson, too much time spent breathing in the ground vapours at the Bankstown version of Fukishima. Maybe Wodger has also been smearing the polluted shisen all over his and Dr Voodoo's naked bodies?

Surely the competency of Pumpkin Head and the Miniscule must be brought into question? This is a national disgrace, seriously. Somebody needs to send a flyer around to the affected parties letter boxes with Slater and Gordon's phone number attached?

Tick Tock Kürbis-Kopf

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RE: Airports - Buy two, get one free. - Kharon - 09-02-2015

A good yarn TB, well told which has not allowed the truth to impinge, as all good yarns should. Now we are all familiar with the many and varied types of Pooh; hell, we wade through enough of it; but the ‘pooh’ that caused the girls school to be moved was not the sort that would benefit a market garden or orchard.

The analysis of the earth under the school is long and technical, the results bad enough to ensure a huge pay-out to those affected and to move the school. There were, allegedly some elements a little more sinister than the contents of many 24 door sedans (night carts).

Now we can all see the intent to build shopping malls and 3000 car parking spaces over Bankstown; the profit motivation and a need for car parks subsuming the industry, it seems inevitable; however. There is a government responsibility and duty of care to the people that will build those features and to those who will use the facilities provided.

Based on the soil analysis for the school case, it would be grossly irresponsible to continue the project without an independent, in-depth analysis of what exactly will be disturbed during construction, where, exactly the excavated material will be dumped and which water table will be polluted by run off from the tailings dump.

There are some seriously sinister materials under the ground at Bankstown, soon to be disturbed and moved. Two headed ducks that glow in the dark and bark will no doubt feature large in the real estate come-on to buy.

Quack – woof – quack.

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RE: Airports - Buy two, get one free. - thorn bird - 09-04-2015

Oh dear Oh dearie me, if it couldn't get any worse for our poor old BAL.
In the shit again.
Apparently, again doing asbestos removal from the pristine, absolutely uncontaminated floodplain???
Now I thought all that had been cleared up ages ago, I mean they had a retrospective EPA clearance (Which I thought was illegal under NSW Law) but since when has the "Law" got in the way of a good swindle, besides they said there was only a little bit in the first place, and they had that isolated.
Must have found a little bit more?? or too much to sweep under the carpet?? Bugger, there's only so much political donations will buy, Bankstown council must be very flush with funds.
I heard a rumor that back in November 2014 BAL had defaulted on a loan to the CBA, passing strange that the head lease states if the lessee becomes insolvent they have 90 days to find a buyer suitable to the commonwealth or the commonwealth can cancel the lease.
Now lets see November 2014...its Sept 2015??? Wow a lot more than 90 Days!!
So who in government ignored this fact, I mean the Commonwealth could have taken the airport back and re-sold it themselves, the money going to the taxpayer. So "Someone" has let BAL off the hook, to try and "Sell" the airport to retrieve $195 million owed to the CBA...very magnanimous of them, protecting a banks loan portfolio at the expense of the taxpayer.
Now who could have engineered that??
"They seek him here, they seek him there...."
The Scarlet??...Murky Macavellian perchance?
Hoy Miniscule, there's all this illegal sh..t happening here... Oh for goodness sake!!
MINISCULE!!! somebody wake him up will you.

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RE: Airports - Buy two, get one free. - thorn bird - 09-06-2015

Is there no end to this?

Rumour control is really getting out of hand, not another one!!

Talking to a Bankstown tenant the other day, moaning about having to pay council rates on their lease site to BAL.

I said whats wrong with that? Bal's just acting as an intermediary.

Well seems like monies collected for "Rates" were not being passed on to BK council.

Hmmm.. a tad dodgy isn't it?

But wait there's more!!

BAL's just put everyones electricity bills up.

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't old Tony say with the carbon tax gone everyones bills were supposed to go down?

I sort of wondered how BAL became an authorised electricity wholesaler as well?

Can airport tenants choose another provider?? somehow I don't think so, monopolies hate competition.

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