Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - Printable Version

+- AuntyPru Forum (https://auntypru.com/forum)
+-- Forum: MH 370 -Media unscrambled. (https://auntypru.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=53)
+--- Forum: P2 - Wheat from Chaff. (https://auntypru.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=54)
+--- Thread: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 (/showthread.php?tid=24)

---

RE: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - aussie500 - 05-29-2015

I am no expert true but I think some of those opinions on the quality of the Fugro work are a bit unfair. They have plenty of experience at mapping, have mapped around other parts of the Australian coast. And frankly I doubt that many doing the complaining have the experience mapping in those sorts of harsh conditions. Go Phoenix got it easy.

What we saw of the Fugro work looked just fine to me, you can see where the strips overlap, nothing missing on the edges. They have another on board gadget that scans the middle of each strip. They put the pretty pictures together there will be no gaps. And yes they will be mowing that 7th arc in little tiny 2.3km(think that was it)strips, it has to be high res to recognize what they are looking for. Anyone can find a link to a better idea, would love to see it. That is the limit of the technology, it is only how they get it scanned that could be different. I think an AUV might be a bit faster and can get in more places, but still same size strip.


And I have yet to see any routinely released data from Go Phoenix, all I saw was 1 sonar image. Where do we see all these other interesting images they have released? Before the search started they had a few photo's released showing scans, but I am not sure they had actually searched anything yet. Pretty sure not much from anyone is going to be released for a fair while. They will be sitting there studying it, then there will no doubt be others checking it to make sure it is suitable for public viewing.

The examples of the rocks they thought might be something man made were from the Fugro team were they not? Shipwreck was the Fugro team, Equator found it, Supporter's AUV got some nice B&W photo's for all the experts and media to admire. They seem more than capable of finding a B777 if it was there.

---

RE: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - Kharon - 05-30-2015

Fetch the whipping boy.

You get a lot of this stuff with air carriers; Cathay pilots reckon BA are cowboys, both think Qantas are rogues etc. tribal humour and basically harmless.  I expect that in the highly competitive deep sea mapping arena the same sort of 'joshing' goes on.  When bidding for work, where the competition is fierce, you could resonably expect some pushing and shoving.  It does however ring some bells when a year later three, not one, but three competing companies unite and bring their joint, expert concerns to the attention of government, which according to recent press has happened.  Sour grapes from one company beforehand, we could ignore but three – a year later, is a horse of a different colour.

One of the most frequently asked questions is why an 'air safety' department is running a maritime search operation?  The Australian AMSA is a very sound organisation with a solid reputation; they may not have an in-house deep water search expert but they sure as hell know and understand how to manage maritime matters, but we never hear a peep out of them.  
If there are valid questions about the 'quality' of the Fugro work, why were these issues not raised before work started? and why is the ATSB fielding those questions when we have fairly good Navy, SAR and AMSA experts on hand who would at very least know how to set about finding the answers?

One thing seems fairly clear, to avoid Australia taking a public flogging for the Malaysian search, for a Malaysian aircraft, those questions raised as to the value of the Fugro search data need to answered; quickly, effectively and with certainty, by experts.  Those answers will not be found in the vacant lot of ATSB bright ideas.  FCOL it took 'em three weeks to relocate a previously found aircraft with a buoy attached in 50 meters of water, 5 clicks off shore.

Here's another fine mess Angus...

---

RE: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - aussie500 - 05-30-2015

The only reason the moaners are gathering in force is they think they have a chance at the next contract. A map is a map, they explore any fuzzy spots they could not get close enough to with the towed rig, there will be no doubt MH370 is not there. Search moves to another favoured spot the Fugro team will likely still be doing the mapping. They were hired to map the debris field, I would be correct in assuming the contract did not mention a specific part of the SIO?

No point anyone blaming the people doing all the hard work if they were told to map the wrong location. And there is no way to be sure it is the wrong location till it is fully mapped, or someone goes and finds MH370 some where else.


Now a really suspicious person would say they already found MH370 back in March 2014, and left the Chinese to salvage it, while the official search was moved north and attention was diverted with some false pings. Three Chinese military vessels we could not track and an unknown vessel that was in that southern search area probably after the official search was moved, but also not keen on sending tracking data. And why was HMAS Success rushing off in a certain direction on March 26th, only to later be seen in the AIS data going directly north out of the search area. She never sent any tracking info in between, she was seen in the sat images. Why would she rush off to investigate something, and then not send any AIS data? Every other spot she stopped those tracking could see where she was, she turned in that time she was not sending tracking data.

As well Digital Globe did their images in strips, they did that entire southern search area multiple times, starting on the 16th of March, but the clouds kept ruining the view. The strips done on the 26th March that were shared on the Tomnod platform, were missing 2 images. I am a bit smarter now, I know the most likely reason those images were missing. At least 2 of the Chinese vessels we were not allowed to track were possibly  seen on those images. It is possible the larger anomalies seen in my area were more ships, but they did not look like ships, they were man made, nothing natural. I assumed they were under the water, they were that dark and not moving, also much clearer than HMAS Success and the P3 Orion we had seen. Yes a satellite can see straight through water to the bottom in at least some locations, and seems to magnify things sometimes. They keep quiet about that. Nobody ever gave any explanation for what was seen at my area of interest, but after the Tomnod search was finished, someone changed the resolution on that one sat image to have a closer look, someone was curious. This after they told us the 20m scale was the best they could do. True going to 10m made it a bit fuzzy, and I believe they lightened it a bit which lost some detail, it was originally very dark. Currently most of the image has vanished, possibly due to a glitch, although it was still all there after the resolution was changed. I was going to sit and study something else of interest over winter when I had more time, lucked out.  But the most interesting pile of junk seen in the Tomnod images that could have been wreckage is still viewable. Could be something else.
http://www.tomnod.com/campaign/mh370_indian_ocean/map/198x5yjc

The overlapping image taken that showed that area on the 25th, the day before, was a high contrast one, only showing what was near the surface (or what was light coloured further down), it showed some strange things near that location, that again seemed to be man made, but such a high contrast image loses all the details you could use to identify what you are looking at. Digital Globe continued taking sat images, going further east for months after the search was moved north, they were looking for something and I doubt it was whales or fish, still might not have been directly related to MH370. Digital Globe also took a large number of images slight north of the area in the Tomnod images, many of which were not viewable in their catalog (not even a thumbnail)) and have since been completely removed. The ones viewable in that area were either full of clouds or of a sort not useful. But I got the impression something was going on we were not allowed to see, but again might not have been directly related to MH370.

A Chinese fishing boat, the Ju Long Jia Ya 7 was tracked much further east later on, sitting fishing for a couple of months, near a spot where things seemed to swirl around, almost super glued to one spot, in the roaring 40's even during winter (she left start of July), determined she was to fish for something. But then China has lots of fishing boats down south, although they usually move around more. She returned after winter and behaved more normally, fishing closer to Tasmania, the few times I got data on her, seemed to be fishing up and down north and south and back again. I was a bit suspicious.

Still no proof anything was going on but the thought has definitely crossed my mind more than once, they did find MH370, and covered it up. If the ships could not see what the planes had located and in some cases marked with a buoy (and a bit of smoke it seems), why did they not just fish for it? They would have had the equipment to look under the surface.

You look hard enough you can always come up with a conspiracy theory. Better ones than that Fugro's images might be a bit fuzzy. Fugro Equator's were good enough to find that much smaller and older shipwreck, a recent B777 debris field should be much more noticeable, if it was there.

---

RE: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - P7_TOM - 05-30-2015

Quote:A500 – "The only reason the moaners are gathering in force is they think they have a chance at the next contract."

Dunno Oz; sour grapes and wanting to 'discredit' the opposition in the hopes of gaining a contract from one company, I could as K says, cheerfully ignore that.  But that ain't what we are getting, at least from the media is it?   I have no doubt Fugro are doing a good job with what they have – BUT if there is even a shadow of legitimate doubt, from 'experts' in the field, expressed formally to the government; IMO the govt. is obliged to seek an impartial opinion on that advice.  This is far too sensitive an issue for doubt; if, and I expect it would find that Fugro are doing 'the right thing', then all is well; if not, then alternative means must be sourced.  I'm all in favour of paying for the Australian end of the search; but I draw the line at wasting the time, trouble, effort and dollars on an 'inadequate' or not 'worlds best' search.  The ATSB is not qualified to assess the competence of the search, it's probably just that which makes me uncomfortable, that; and, I dislike doubt.

Quote:A500 – "Now a really suspicious person would say they already found MH370 back in March 2014, and left the Chinese to salvage it, while the official search was moved north and attention was diverted with some false pings.

Our very own P777 raised the "moved North" issue moths ago, this prompted some fairly sharp questions, which, for want of better knowledge, the rest of us have been unable to answer; but, betcha a beer, he's read your post with some interest, as have many others.  It has always been an unexplained curiosity, why the search was so hastily moved – about the time Angus retreated and Beaker emerged from under his rock.  

The rest of your offering is fascinating, being airmen, we hardly ever think that ships can be tracked, most refreshing to get another perspective.   Thank you for an informative post, much appreciated.  I believe it is within my humble moderator powers to award Choc frogs as and when best pleases.  So, have a cyber CF and a big smile from me....    

---

RE: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - aussie500 - 05-30-2015

Actually before all this I had no idea you could track planes online, and it still took me a while to get to ships. I eventually wanted to know where HMAS Success had been.

Angus and the JACC actually came after the move north, the JACC was formed on March 30th, search was moved north a few days before that on the 27th.
https://www.pm.gov.au/media/2014-03-30/air-chief-marshal-angus-houston-lead-joint-agency-coordination-centre

And then shortly after the aerial and surface search ended, and AMSA departed leaving the ATSB to run things. Seemed a bit of a rush job. But they were all overjoyed to go chasing BB pings soon after, had Abbott spouting all sorts of hopeful statements.
So no grumbles about moving the search area. Was it a coincidence, just over enthusiasm and desperation run rampant, or a deftly done distraction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUIRpOtzYKM
The it went faster, used more fuel so never traveled as far statement was too much for me, I considered it a false search from the start, a sham. Sent my info and location off to AMSA asking if it could be investigated. Was given the brush off and told to leave identification to the experts. Fair enough they were probably sick of Tomnod taggers, at least they answered, unlike the ATSB. I went off investigating in other directions.

All the resources that could have more easily located MH370, were used after the search was shifted north. They never used that BB pinger locator in the southern area, but let those batteries run out chasing the wrong thing. An investigation into that muck up I would like to see. Because if they had any real experts to advise them, they must have said it was from something else.

---

RE: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - Gobbledock - 05-31-2015

Aussie500, to assist you with some background information on Australia’s parlous aviation system, below are some small snippets on how we have gotten to the level where we are today. Although as a Mariner, you too would have seen great levels of Government incompetence including the billion dollar Collins class submarine lemons? As follows:

1. The aviation regulatory reform program. This commenced in 1988, yep 27 years ago and has so far cost between $270 000 000 to $300 000 000. And guess what, this lemon of a task isn’t yet completed!!! (for an example of how it is done properly please research how NZ did it)

2. The ICAO audit of CAsA in 2009. It was a damning report which basically aligned us with third world countries when it came to safety. Things aren’t much better today. The FAA were equally concerned and considered downgrading our safety rating which would have pegged us on equal with third world nations, and cost the Australian economy dearly. A casual reading link below:

http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/05/12/icao-audit-reveals-australias-third-world-skies/

3. The TSBC peer review of that ‘Hubris of aviation’, Beaker, and his merry band of ATSB incompetents. Although the report was for political reasons worded politically nicely, it too found Australia totally deficient in its so-called investigation of the Pel-air accident/ditching. Sadly our ATSB was a world leader, up there with the TSBC and the NTSB, but that fell apart the day that an agriculture accountant took over the wheel. Today, well, a complete joke. (If only Alan Stray could have stayed). A casual reading link below:

http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2013/05/23/damning-senate-report-on-atsb-casa-pel-air-failings/

4. ASRR undertaken by David Forsythe. A review of Australia’s oversight capability in general. And yep, you guessed it, not a pretty picture. Another damning indictment of how Australia is on par with third world countries. A casual reading link below:

http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2014/06/03/will-the-heads-of-casa-and-the-atsb-now-resign/?wpmp_switcher=mobile

And the nauseating attempted cover-up;

http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2014/03/02/australia-suppresses-criticism-of-its-aviation-safety-body/?wpmp_switcher=mobile

5. One can add to the list other Australian stuff ups such as:

- Not planning mitigation to relieve Sydney of its aviation congestion issues (successive Governments have done nothing but make the Consultants rich ‘talking’ about Badgerys)
- Failed road infrastructure planning in capital cities
- Failure to take mining taxes from those flogging our mineral assets
- Failure to tax SACL
- Failure to fix our water infrastructure including the much needed Murray River
- Failure to make the Bruce Highway into an actual highway. It is a goat track
- Failure to adequately protect our greatest national ecological treasure - The Great Barrier Reef
- Not to mention the various UN departments who have expressed concern over Australia’s treatment of refugees (UN sec-general), protection of environment (UNESCO) and aviation safety (ICAO). Yep, our politicians are doing a wonderful job screwing up our country!

“Third world Australian standards for all”

---

RE: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - aussie500 - 06-01-2015

I firmly believe no matter who we vote into power, every government run department will be equally shoddily run, and wasteful of money. The public health system would probably be my pet peeve if I was going to single one out for attention. I can live with them wasting money and time, but life and health are more precious.

---

RE: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - Gobbledock - 06-01-2015

Aussie500, I have to agree with you on that score. But let's face it, until a politician or a politicians family is killed in an aircraft accident or dies on an operating table due to malpractice nothing ever really changes.

---

RE: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - Stagger-Lee - 06-01-2015

Gobbledock: your mention of "Failure to fix our water infrastructure including the much needed Murray River", is another example of government interference in something they knew nothing about in the lofty heights of suburbia and Canberra. Howards good intent to share the water to the states who were constantly complaining about each other pissing upstream, was usurped by the bureaucrats and subsequent green and green dependant politicians and the Murray Darling Basin Authority was bastardised. They redefined the original aim of the Snowy Mountains Scheme from a storage facility for irrigation downstream in the water starved interior with the added benefits of a hydro electric generating facility to a green energy producing facility which holds water to be drained without thought to agricultural need and downstream flooding of wetlands until it reached the coast where they turned a salt water swampland into a freshwater swampland draining uselessly out to sea. The damage it did and still does to local community's and the irrigation food production has had great impact on domestic and overseas needs. People committed suicide.

Water by nature runs downstream, but our green masters have made that industry conform with "water saving" innovations including drip irrigation where running water is taken from channels and pumped into irrigation dripper pipes using, you guessed it, expensive electricity, some made by running water and other by coal. Government grants at the cost to the taxpayer helped achieve this startling ability to pump water uphill to replace water running downhill was supposed to save frogs for the fishermen to use as bait for the Murray Cod because they now have nothing else to do.

The greens and their co dependants should be sent to the Antarctic to play ring around the rosy with themselves and their appendages. Take their windmills with them.

Industry is constantly ignored by the bureaucrats (rat's) at the cost to the taxpayer. Safety is another growing industry in itself. Our CASA is a prime example of government waste by the unelected, uninformed, incompetent and un unaccountable. An open hunting season should be to declared on all regulatory capable private, QUANGO's, and government "powers" that make it difficult for private enterprise to be carried out.

Idiots, the lot of them.

---

RE: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - Gobbledock - 06-01-2015

Stagger (Bruce) Lee;

Industry is constantly ignored by the bureaucrats (rat's) at the cost to the taxpayer. Safety is another growing industry in itself. Our CASA is a prime example of government waste by the unelected, uninformed, incompetent and un unaccountable. An open hunting season should be to declared on all regulatory capable private, QUANGO's, and government "powers" that make it difficult for private enterprise to be carried out.

Sir that is the best paragraph I have read this week! Well said. You have been awarded additional points for using the acronym QUANGO! Kharon permitted me to raid the Styx Houseboat's wheelhouse bar fridge and I have despatched 2 chocolate frogs to you forthwith.

To QUANGO or to QUANDO, that is the question?? Ok, let's go with a brief QUANDO for your listening pleasure;

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PxZHBxlwZBw

---

RE: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - crankybastards - 06-01-2015

That also fits the acronym Quasi Autonomous Non-government Destructive Organization's.

Well done to all. Your two frogs plus a bag of chippies should they not be flimflammed away by the chip thief.

---

RE: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - Peetwo - 06-02-2015

Dolan correcting the record..

Okay let's get back on track, shall we...

aussie500 - "...No point anyone blaming the people doing all the hard work if they were told to map the wrong location. And there is no way to be sure it is the wrong location till it is fully mapped, or someone goes and finds MH370 some where else..."

Well it seems that the muppet has come out swinging in defence of his coalface troops and his contractor Fugro - pity the sincerity, integrity & veracity of the Dolan statement is so questionable...

Quote:The capability of the MH370 search operation

2 June 2015

Recent news reports about the search for MH370 have included highly inaccurate assertions about the search and how it is being conducted.

The ATSB strongly refutes assertions that Fugro Survey Pty Ltd was not the best choice to undertake the underwater search or that the search methods are ineffective. The search is being carried out to the highest standards of effectiveness and quality.

“These attacks are unfounded and unfair”, said Chief Commissioner Martin Dolan. “The search for MH370 represents thousands of hours of work by hundreds of people who are dedicated, expert and professional. They are fully committed to finding the aircraft.

“The opportunity to tender services for the search for MH370 was open to the international underwater search industry. We received a number of tenders which encompassed a range of different capabilities and methods. A comprehensive and exhaustive evaluation process was conducted in line with strict Australian Government procurement and probity rules.

“I am very conscious that we must use taxpayers’ money responsibly. Fugro’s bid represented the best value for money and demonstrated that they could capably manage the technical aspects of this challenging search operation and deliver the necessary results.”

Fugro has been involved with numerous aircraft and helicopter search and recovery operations since the 1980s. They have been using the Edgetech Deeptow side-scan sonar systems since the mid-90s and have one of the largest commercial AUV fleets in the world for performing commercial surveys in deep water.

Their ability to detect man-made objects on the seafloor in ultra-deep water is evidenced by the recent detection of a previously unknown shipwreck.

“The debris in the shipwreck field was significantly smaller, and therefore harder to detect, than we expect to find with MH370,” Chief Commissioner Dolan said.
“The ATSB has put in place systems of review and expert quality assurance so we can be certain that the quality of search data meets the high standards we have specified,” said Chief Commissioner Dolan. “We selected Fugro on their capacity to meet those standards.”

As part of its quality assurance process, the ATSB has enlisted the expertise of Sherrell Ocean Services founded by Andrew Sherrell, one of the leading sonar search specialists in the world, who has worked on a number of commercial air investigations, including the search and recovery of Air France 447, TWA 800, and Egypt Air 990.

Mr Sherrell has been involved as the Quality Assurance Manager in many elements of the search for MH370, beginning with the tender process and continuing with the planning of the search and review of the gathered sonar data. Mr Sherrell said he is confident that the appropriate technology is being used.

“The equipment was tested thoroughly in ocean trials at a purpose-built test range to ensure the maximum swath width without compromising the detection capability. Fugro’s faster-than-average tow speed enables them to scan significant amounts of sea floor per operational day. As a result, we are seeing substantial coverage with the required level of resolution,” said Mr Sherrell.

“We have a rigorous and thorough quality assurance program that ensures appropriate overlap between adjacent swaths and positioning of each line as well. We are achieving very accurate and consistent results with a new state-of-the-art positioning system that gives us full confidence in the towfish position, even 9km behind the vessel.

“Furthermore, we verify this system by using the accurate bathymetry maps collected during Phase 1 of this search. By matching specific features on the seafloor, we can ensure that the positions being calculated are correct, and we do this for every single line of data collected. We also perform feature matching with the side scan sonar data between adjacent lines to ensure sufficient overlap of data is maintained. This is also done on every line as it is collected, with any deficiencies documented and catalogued.
“In addition, Fugro are using multibeam sonar to supplement the side scan sonar equipment; this covers the traditional “nadir” gap directly below the towfish. The multibeam ensures more complete coverage of the seafloor it passes over. This is optimising our rate of progress, and is a feature that is not available on some older systems that are still in use by other organisations.”

Without this type of system, a much higher percentage of seafloor would need to be covered twice to fill in this missing data. Duplicating coverage of the seafloor not only increases the cost of the search, but also the time required to cover the search area. Using a multibeam sonar in this way is a very efficient technique for covering large areas of seafloor.

“The challenges remain,” Chief Commissioner Dolan said. “The search zone is remote, the weather and sea conditions are difficult  and the search area is vast, but I’ve never had any doubt about the capabilities of Fugro, their commitment to the mission or their professionalism.”

This was Ben Sandilands (so far) short response to that:


MH370 search tender and competency defended by ATSB

Ben Sandilands | Jun 02, 2015 11:26AM |



The ATSB has defended the MH370 search tender process and the capabilities of Fugro Survey Pty Ltd which has been performing much of the required scanning of the sea floor in prioritised areas of the southern Indian Ocean.

That response can be read here.


It seems both fair and reasonable. However it is also fair to hold that the chief commissioner of the ATSB, Martin Dolan, will need to manage the the ocean floor search much better than he managed the disgraceful and botched ATSB inquiry into the Pel-Air crash, or his severely criticised evidence before a Senate Committee inquiry into the Pel-Air inquiry process, or his most Senate appearance in relation to failing to fully investigate a three hour ground radar blackout involving Melbourne’s main Tullamarine and Essendon Airports.

Yep my thoughts exactly...

MTF...P2  

---

RE: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - Gobbledock - 06-02-2015

P2, humble apologies for the divergence off topic and I accept the slap on the wrist.

So as you say, back on track it is. So, let me get this straight, Beaker, aka 'Hubris', and we are talking about the same Beaker I assume judging by the very discernible comments about money, taxpayers, blah blah blah, is suddenly concerned about 'quality assurance'? In fact he mentions QA on several occasions. Really? We can believe that can we? Hmmm, so let's see so far;

• Airtex - fail
• Pelair - fail
• Compliance with ICAO annexe 13 - fail
• Beaker as Commissioner - fail
• CAsA MOU - fail
• TSBC review - fail
• ASRR review - fail
• The overall 'quality' of investigations over the past 6 years - fail
• Time taken to produce final investigation reports over the past 6 years - fail
• ATsB 'independence' over the past 6 years - fail
• MH370 investigation thus far - fail

I could go on and on as there is more, but looking at the above list has made me feel ill so I'm calling time out. But as for Beakers latest wank word phrase 'quality assurance', well he can dry that out and fertilise the lawns around Parliament House. You want quality assurance? Sack Beaker, his other two Commissioners and the conga line of muppets that have launched the wrecking ball through the place and hire Alan Stray, please!!!! FFS, enough.

I've got the shits with this, over to you Ben, go get em........

"Safe quality assurance for all, my ass"

---

RE: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - Kharon - 06-03-2015

Quote:Well it seems that the muppet has come out swinging in defence of his coalface troops and his contractor Fugro - pity the sincerity, integrity & veracity of the Dolan statement is so questionable

P2 in a nutshell, Beakers antics throughout his Senate performances leaves only one impression, one which makes it very easy to believe that he could, if asked, give you change for a nine dollar note – in three's.  Even if it were all true I doubt it will prevent the press dragging him and Australia through the mud, with Malaysia's gleeful assistance.  

Someone has a lot of work to do, you could multiply GD's little list by 10 and go very close to realising the detrimental effects the beyond all reason system has had on what was, once, an invaluable, credible service to industry we were all proud of.  Alan Stray ? – Oh, yes please.  

---

RE: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - Peetwo - 06-03-2015

(06-02-2015, 12:42 PM)Peetwo Wrote:  Dolan correcting the record..

Quote:The capability of the MH370 search operation

2 June 2015

Recent news reports about the search for MH370 have included highly inaccurate assertions about the search and how it is being conducted.

The ATSB strongly refutes assertions that Fugro Survey Pty Ltd was not the best choice to undertake the underwater search or that the search methods are ineffective. The search is being carried out to the highest standards of effectiveness and quality.

“These attacks are unfounded and unfair”, said Chief Commissioner Martin Dolan. “The search for MH370 represents thousands of hours of work by hundreds of people who are dedicated, expert and professional. They are fully committed to finding the aircraft.

“The opportunity to tender services for the search for MH370 was open to the international underwater search industry. We received a number of tenders which encompassed a range of different capabilities and methods. A comprehensive and exhaustive evaluation process was conducted in line with strict Australian Government procurement and probity rules.

“I am very conscious that we must use taxpayers’ money responsibly. Fugro’s bid represented the best value for money and demonstrated that they could capably manage the technical aspects of this challenging search operation and deliver the necessary results.”

Fugro has been involved with numerous aircraft and helicopter search and recovery operations since the 1980s. They have been using the Edgetech Deeptow side-scan sonar systems since the mid-90s and have one of the largest commercial AUV fleets in the world for performing commercial surveys in deep water.

Their ability to detect man-made objects on the seafloor in ultra-deep water is evidenced by the recent detection of a previously unknown shipwreck.

“The debris in the shipwreck field was significantly smaller, and therefore harder to detect, than we expect to find with MH370,” Chief Commissioner Dolan said.
“The ATSB has put in place systems of review and expert quality assurance so we can be certain that the quality of search data meets the high standards we have specified,” said Chief Commissioner Dolan. “We selected Fugro on their capacity to meet those standards.”

As part of its quality assurance process, the ATSB has enlisted the expertise of Sherrell Ocean Services founded by Andrew Sherrell, one of the leading sonar search specialists in the world, who has worked on a number of commercial air investigations, including the search and recovery of Air France 447, TWA 800, and Egypt Air 990.

Mr Sherrell has been involved as the Quality Assurance Manager in many elements of the search for MH370, beginning with the tender process and continuing with the planning of the search and review of the gathered sonar data. Mr Sherrell said he is confident that the appropriate technology is being used.

“The equipment was tested thoroughly in ocean trials at a purpose-built test range to ensure the maximum swath width without compromising the detection capability. Fugro’s faster-than-average tow speed enables them to scan significant amounts of sea floor per operational day. As a result, we are seeing substantial coverage with the required level of resolution,” said Mr Sherrell.

“We have a rigorous and thorough quality assurance program that ensures appropriate overlap between adjacent swaths and positioning of each line as well. We are achieving very accurate and consistent results with a new state-of-the-art positioning system that gives us full confidence in the towfish position, even 9km behind the vessel.

“Furthermore, we verify this system by using the accurate bathymetry maps collected during Phase 1 of this search. By matching specific features on the seafloor, we can ensure that the positions being calculated are correct, and we do this for every single line of data collected. We also perform feature matching with the side scan sonar data between adjacent lines to ensure sufficient overlap of data is maintained. This is also done on every line as it is collected, with any deficiencies documented and catalogued.
“In addition, Fugro are using multibeam sonar to supplement the side scan sonar equipment; this covers the traditional “nadir” gap directly below the towfish. The multibeam ensures more complete coverage of the seafloor it passes over. This is optimising our rate of progress, and is a feature that is not available on some older systems that are still in use by other organisations.”

Without this type of system, a much higher percentage of seafloor would need to be covered twice to fill in this missing data. Duplicating coverage of the seafloor not only increases the cost of the search, but also the time required to cover the search area. Using a multibeam sonar in this way is a very efficient technique for covering large areas of seafloor.

“The challenges remain,” Chief Commissioner Dolan said. “The search zone is remote, the weather and sea conditions are difficult  and the search area is vast, but I’ve never had any doubt about the capabilities of Fugro, their commitment to the mission or their professionalism.”

While on the subject of 'correcting the record' it would appear that the ATSB Director of the Operational Search for MH370 Peter Foley has a further clarification for the Senate after this brief appearance at Senate Estimates:

 

The clarification... - ATSB_Foley correction 28 May  

Quote:Dear Senator Heffernan,


Subject: Budget Estimates May 2015


I write regarding some information given at Senate Estimates on May 28, some details of which were unintentionally inaccurate and could be misinterpreted.

In response to a question from Senator Rice in relation to the Integrated Marine Observing System acoustic detections around the time of the loss of MH370, I stated that there was a detection approximately an hour after the aircraft exhausted its fuel in a north-westerly direction - towards Diego Garcia and the Maldives.

This evidence may have been misleading and I wish to tender further information in relation to the analysis of acoustic detections in the search for MH370.

Low frequency hydro-acoustic signals present in the Indian Ocean were examined between March and June 2014 to determine whether they could provide any information to help define the search area. These signals were recorded by hydrophones as part of the United Nations Comprehensive Nuclear-Test-Ban-Treaty Organisation (CTBTO) or the Integrated Marine Observing System (IMOS).

Recordings of low-frequency underwater acoustic signals from data loggers and hydrophones off the WA coast (these hydrophones are located in the Perth Canyon to the west of Rottnest Island not Carnarvon as I stated) were retrieved and analysed by Curtin University's Centre for Marine Science and Technology during the search for MH370.

The ATSB requested the Curtin University Centre for Marine Science and Technology CMST) and the Defence Science and Technology Organisation to analyse these signals in an attempt to detect and localise underwater sounds that could be associated with the impact of the aircraft on the water or with the implosion of wreckage as the aircraft sank.

One acoustic event of interest was identified that occurred at a time that could have potentially linked it to MH370. This event appeared to have been received just after 0130 UTC on 8 March 2014 on one of the IMOS recorders near the Perth Canyon (RCS) and at the CTBTO hydro-acoustic station at Cape Leeuwin (HA01 ). A detailed analysis of these signals resulted in an approximate localisation for the source of the event. Based on the propagation speed of acoustic signals, the timing of the event was compatible with the time of the last satellite handshake with the aircraft, which occurred at approximately 0019 UTC, shortly before the aircraft is calculated to have entered the ocean. The location of this acoustic event was, however, incompatible with the satellite to aircraft range derived from the handshake.

Using the three hydrophones from the Cape Leeuwin station, Curtin University subsequently calculated a precise bearing that showed the signal came from the northwest, in the central Indian Ocean, with the most likely location calculated to be 5.93°S, 77.22°E with a corresponding time of the event approximately of 0039 UTC.

There is however uncertainty about where the event occurred and therefore about the time taken for the signal to arrive at the hydrophone array.

In summary, all the acoustic events recorded around the time of the likely splashdown of MH370 were carefully analysed. The one event which may have occurred close to the right time came from a direction in the Indian Ocean which was not compatible with the data derived about the aircraft's position from the satellite handshakes.

I apologise for the inaccuracy and trust that this clarifies the matter.

FCOL two brief appearances at Estimates & two 'clarifications'... 

What say you Feline Nut??- Told you so!!  

---

RE: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - aussie500 - 06-03-2015

Well Australia and the ATSB is likely to lose no matter what happens. They find it, they will have to explain why so much time and money was wasted searching the wrong places. They do not find it, they will be accused of a coverup, even though they can prove it was not where the ships scanned. Cannot accuse the teams doing the work of not trying hard enough with at least 60,0000 sq km of the current 7th arc, they can show they put the work in. They can never show they looked in the right place unless they find MH370. It is the ATSB's responsibility to have them looking in the most likely places. Not putting all their hopes on one thing like they have been. Finding they are wrong and it is to late to do anything about it.

They find it on the 7th arc we will all be happy for them and the families finally given some proof of what happened to their loved ones. Still there will be grumbles of incompetence some where, NOK with no loved ones body to take home will be angry, conspiracy theorists will be having a field day on what happened to the plane, and Australia and the ATSB will still be accused of a coverup.

Even if they are perfectly innocent, they are going to get accused of it. The media is making something of nothing already, the Fugro stuff was nonsense that could easily be disproved. Wait till the media have a plane wreck in their grasp, and a decided lack of explanations as to what happened.

Presumably the ATSB gets to do the non investigation that finds nothing out. We know how that goes, those dutch have been doing it long enough with MH17. They had the wreckage and are still procrastinating on revealing their findings. Australia has yet to find MH370, might never find it.

---

RE: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - P7_TOM - 06-03-2015

As slowly, but inevitably, the world arrives at the same conclusion..  How is the world to view an ATSB with a track record like Australia's? when credibility is all.   I will not mention the politicians who believed, categorically, that the ATSB under Dolan could solve the puzzle.

---

RE: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - Peetwo - 06-04-2015

(06-03-2015, 09:56 PM)P7_TOM Wrote:  As slowly, but inevitably, the world arrives at the same conclusion..  How is the world to view an ATSB with a track record like Australia's? when credibility is all.   I will not mention the politicians who believed, categorically, that the ATSB under Dolan could solve the puzzle.

Here you go old Tom a perfect example of how the world is slowly but surely catching on...

From the Free Malaysia Today publication (ps Gobbles notice the beard is back on.. ):

Quote:Australia defends MH370 search firm


Joe Fernandez
 | June 2, 2015

ATSB chief Martin Dolan will need to manage the ocean floor search much better.



KUALA LUMPUR: The Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) has defended the MH370 search tender process and the capabilities of Fugro Survey Pty Ltd which has been performing much of the required scanning of the sea floor in prioritized areas of the southern Indian Ocean, according to a report by Crikey.

The ATSB’s response can be read here.

“It seems both fair and reasonable,” said Crikey in a brief comment.

However, it added, that it was also fair to hold that the chief commissioner of the ATSB, Martin Dolan, will need to manage the ocean floor search much better than he has managed other investigations so far.

The website made reference to “the disgraceful and botched ATSB inquiry into the Pel-Air crash, his severely criticized evidence before a Senate Committee inquiry into the Pel-Air inquiry process, and his most recent Senate appearance in relation to failing to fully investigate a three hour ground radar blackout involving Melbourne’s main Tullamarine and Essendon Airports.

Read the ATSB statement here:
http://www.atsb.gov.au/newsroom/correcting-the-record.aspx

Tick..tick..tick..tick..tick..tick..



MTF...P2

---

RE: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - Gobbledock - 06-04-2015

Well I'm not surprised at the beard photo. Beaker (aka media tart) has so many photos to choose from. He had a personal modelling session done and has a thousand or so pics in his portfolio. You know, beard on/beard off, wearing suit, in a Hawaiian shirt, in his mankini, wearing Lederhosen, rubber suit, ladies corset, and his favourite - dressed as an Investigator wearing chambre shirt with multiple pens in pocket, blunderstone boots, hi-vis vest and sunscreen!!

But enough frivolity before I am sent to the naughty corner. The core issue here, as has been mentioned now in numerous media articles is how many folk are starting to wake up to the fact that it is highly doubtful that Beaker has the ability to pull off a successful 'find and retrieve mission' for MH370. Not only are the media starting to wake up to this fact, but a source has told me that some international players who dwell in high places are also 'closely observing practises and processes' involved in the methodology of the ATsB regarding this search. Now as hard as I pressed for more information, the door was firmly locked. But that's ok, I was drip fed enough to pique my curiosity.

The bearded one has a lot riding on the MH investigation. I hope, for the sake of the loved ones of the deceased, that Beaker is in fact some kind of under-appreciated Messiah of accident investigations. Indeed I hope so for his sake, because as I see it he makes for the perfect (and long overdue) fall guy.....


If Beakers house is a tocking don't come a knocking.

---

RE: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - Kharon - 06-05-2015

Corset it's Ok; only money after all.

Quote:GD – "[the] fact that it is highly doubtful that Beaker has the ability to pull off a successful 'find and retrieve mission' for MH370.

.. ...I wonder; even if Beaker donned his best rubber suit, went for a swim off the back of one of the search boats and then came up for air clutching the toilet seat from first class, would anyone would believe he had found the aircraft.  

Then I wonder if this is not 'punishment' for making such a fearful hash of the last little 'underwater' search extravaganza.  You know the one, where he saved few bob on a crane and a diver.  This small saving ended up costing the long suffering tax payer a Senate inquiry and some red faces within the various departments.  Not content with that, we had to have Forsyth and a peer review (revue) done by our mates, the Canadians.  More millions down the tubes and the final indignity – Beaker's crowning glory – "Go away and do it again, only properly this time" and waste some more money.  For the sake of nail, the shoe was lost etc.  

It's too bad; not only incompetent; but, insult to injury, an expensive incompetent, yet still drawing bonuses for petty 'savings' and getting well paid to do it, is all just a bit too much for my stomach.  Maybe the deal is for him to be the scapegoat when (if) it all ends in tears.  But will one small, insignificant goat be enough to appease the hoi polloi when the time comes? we shall see.   Watch the word weasels spin that one. 

Toot toot.

(PS) - GD I haven't seen the lederhosen, corset and high heels picture yet; can you send it through.  IOS and BRB get together soon, the troops will love that one.  

---