Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - Printable Version

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+--- Thread: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 (/showthread.php?tid=24)

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RE: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - Gobbledock - 08-09-2016

Hoodwinked and a load of Folley

Hoody has either made a pivotal mistake so early into his career as ATsB commissioner, or the man is brilliant, or he his in touch with the spirt realm. His assumptions based on current MH370 evidence is premature. And it is unusual for Hoody to be half-cocked and go off prematurely, so to speak.

Hoody is towing the party line as directed by his string pullers. And that is a pity. Dolan was, is, and forever will be the biggest joke ever thrust upon the ATsB. Hoody is now following the path that Beaker laid down. Yes, he is just doing what he has been told to do and say, but IMO it won't end well for him, it's going to end up in tears. The bullshit Government spun baloney about MH370 has more holes in it that Osama Bin Ladens head.

The day that Hoody grows a beard is the day that I hang up my headset and head for the aviation door, once and for all.
The ocean is a spiritualistic place, has a certain mystery and omni presence about it. It tends to hide secrets but it also tends to unexpectedly give up it's most secret stories. MH370 may not be solved in some aviators lifetime but I believe it will give up it's ghosts. Is the MH370 clock still ticking? Indeed it is my friends....

#bringbackalan

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RE: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - ventus45 - 08-09-2016

If Hoody was going to change the Beaker line, he would have already.

He has inherited "three major, very public, high profile items of outstanding business", those being Norfolk, Mildura and MH370 (among many other serious matters of less than active "public" interest, as opposed to aviation's interest).

He has said nothing of significance on any of those three yet.

If he was going to change anything with regard to MH370, the first thing he should do, is produce, and publish, in "individual, separate reports", the detailed analysis of each of the debris items the ATSB has examined.

He has not done so, and he will not, because, as Gobbles notes "Hoody is towing the party line as directed by his string pullers", in other words, the JACC, and those who created it, in a flash, out of fresh air, back on 29/30 March 2014, with Angus as the front man.

It all comes back to the "governments" pulling the strings behind the scenes. They were from the beginning, and they still are.

The only logical conclusion that one can come to, is that those governments don't, and never did want, MH370 found, indeed, it is their imperative that it never be found, because they know "why" it went missing, and that is so secret, that it is "sealed", never to be revealed.

It is clear therefore, logically, that as far as those governments are concerned, since the "why" is so secret, that their real imperative, is that it must never be found.

Given that logically the governments could not credibly dismiss the incident, and just write off 300 lives, another more acceptable answer was needed.

A massive search had to be devised and performed, to convince the world that they cared.

The 7th arc was born.

For over a year, the initial 60,000 square kilometer search proceeded as planned, but public interest did not slowly wane as hoped for, and planned.

The governments had a problem. What to do ?

Answer ? OK, rite-oh, just double it. Make it 120,000 square kilometers. That will take another year. The media can't possibly keep interest up for that long, can they ?

So two and a half years on, and the 120,000 square kilometers are nearly done.

Governments have now firmed up.
There will not be a further extension of the search.
It will be "suspended" ............ indefinitely.

The "secrets" are safe.

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RE: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - ventus45 - 08-09-2016

Just found this post on Jeff Wise net.

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RE: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - Gobbledock - 08-09-2016

Ventus, nice pick up. However I will see your 777 and raise you a Pelair aircraft and proudly proclaim that the ATsB couldn't find a 777 if it was parked up their own asses!!

An alphabet soup agency theory as follows;

"The ABS will use cross matched data obtained from Census night to analyse MH370 data on the ATsB's data base and compare this to FBI data and perhaps some ICAO annexes. After consultation with CAsA and perhaps AMSA 'experts', a robust conclusion to the matter will be achieved".
(Cue the sound of the 'closed stamp' being vigorously applied to all paperwork. Done? Good. Now cue the shredder and prepare to bury everything else under FOI. To be realesed in the year 3010).

TICK TOCK

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RE: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - JoeDColeman1981 - 08-09-2016

(08-09-2016, 01:12 PM)ventus45 Wrote:  Just found this post on Jeff Wise net.

(08-09-2016, 07:11 PM)Gobbledock Wrote:  Ventus, nice pick up. However I will see your 777 and raise you a Pelair aircraft and proudly proclaim that the ATsB couldn't find a 777 if it was parked up their own asses!!

An alphabet soup agency theory as follows;

"The ABS will use cross matched data obtained from Census night to analyse MH370 data on the ATsB's data base and compare this to FBI data and perhaps some ICAO annexes. After consultation with CAsA and perhaps AMSA 'experts', a robust conclusion to the matter will be achieved".
(Cue the sound of the 'closed stamp' being vigorously applied to all paperwork. Done? Good. Now cue the shredder and prepare to bury everything else under FOI. To be realesed in the year 3010).

TICK TOCK

Where is the quote above from?

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RE: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - Peetwo - 08-09-2016

(08-09-2016, 08:10 PM)JoeDColeman1981 Wrote:  

(08-09-2016, 01:12 PM)ventus45 Wrote:  Just found this post on Jeff Wise net.

(08-09-2016, 07:11 PM)Gobbledock Wrote:  Ventus, nice pick up. However I will see your 777 and raise you a Pelair aircraft and proudly proclaim that the ATsB couldn't find a 777 if it was parked up their own asses!!

An alphabet soup agency theory as follows;

"The ABS will use cross matched data obtained from Census night to analyse MH370 data on the ATsB's data base and compare this to FBI data and perhaps some ICAO annexes. After consultation with CAsA and perhaps AMSA 'experts', a robust conclusion to the matter will be achieved".
(Cue the sound of the 'closed stamp' being vigorously applied to all paperwork. Done? Good. Now cue the shredder and prepare to bury everything else under FOI. To be realesed in the year 3010).

TICK TOCK

Where is the quote above from?

Do you mean the Jeff Wise blog copied posts? If so go bottom of pg 14 here: http://jeffwise.net/2016/07/31/60-minutes-australia-reports-on-secret-malaysia-report/comment-page-14/#comments

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RE: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - JoeDColeman1981 - 08-10-2016

No, sorry. I meant Gobbledock's quote. At the time I thought it was a real theory then read the title "Alphabet Soup theory" I know now what it means. Thanks for reply.

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RE: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - Gobbledock - 08-10-2016

Sorry Joe, it's my sarcasm. It is often my way of reflecting how ridiculous I find these government agencies and the ludicrous crap they peddle.

Cheers
Gobbles

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RE: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - Peetwo - 08-10-2016



MAL join the MH370 floating leaf conga line -  

The 'he said, she said, they said...err someone else' said bollocks continues this AM, reported by 'that man' in the Oz...  

Quote:Malaysian airline and ATSB reject MH370 pilot hijack theory

• Ean Higgins
  
• The Australian
  
• 12:00AM August 10, 2016
  [img=0x0]http://pixel.tcog.cp1.news.com.au/track/component/author/0573acb566bb47c45e64e4c55a998aba/?esi=true&t_product=the-australian&t_template=s3/austemp-article_common/vertical/author/widget&td_bio=false[/img]
  

The Malaysia Airlines group yesterday joined the Australian air safety watchdog in a concerted campaign to discredit increasing evidence that Flight MH370 captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah ­hijacked his own aircraft and may have glided it to a landing outside the underwater search zone.

Malaysia Airline System Berhad issued a rare press release on MH370, saying it “notes recent media speculation around Flight MH370 and deliberate pilot ­action” and describing such reports as “speculative”.

“Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah had served Malaysia Airlines for 33 years without any disciplinary or medical issues,” MAS said, adding he had “an ­impeccable safety record”.

The move comes as the Australian Transport Safety Bureau is also mounting an aggressive public relations initiative to dispel suggestions, including from the man leading the underwater search commissioned by the ATSB, that Zaharie flew the aircraft to the end.

A review of earlier reports by the ATSB shows it has changed its publicly expressed level of confidence in its preferred “death dive” theory that MH370 crashed quickly after running out of fuel with dead or unresponsive pilots.

Previously, the ATSB said a controlled glide under pilot command was “possible”.
The ATSB is now publicly placing more weight on the presumed accuracy of satellite tracking data to determine the circumstances in which MH370 went down, having previously warned of limitations with such information.

Transport Minister Darren Chester, the ATSB, the Malaysian government, and Malaysia Airlines have been trying to downplay revelations the FBI found a simulated flight route on Zaharie’s home computer largely matching the zigzag flight MH370 took from Malaysia over the Andaman Sea to the southern Indian Ocean.

They were also stung by a statement from the leader of the underwater search, the Dutch Fugro marine survey group’s project director Paul Kennedy, that he now thought Zaharie might have been at the controls and glided the aircraft down, and that the search area should next move to one based on that ­assumption.

As revealed yesterday, ATSB head Greg Hood told The Australian automatic satellite data that tracked the path of MH370 after transponder and radio contact were lost with the aircraft on March 8, 2014, had been re-­analysed by defence scientists.

He told this newspaper analysis of the signals most closely matched a scenario in which there was no pilot at the controls at the end of the flight.

However, in its earlier public reports, including those based on the Australian Defence Science and Technology Group review last year, the ATSB did not dismiss the controlled glide theory.

The ATSB came up with a “low priority width” of an alternative search area a further 60 nautical miles wide on either side, which, it said, “encompasses the possible but less probable controlled glide scenario”.

Shakes his head and exits stage right, muttering - UDB..UDB!   P2 comment: Embarrassed face for Hoody 

IMO, except for Z being the winner, ROB off JW pretty much nails it:

Quote:ROB
Posted August 9, 2016 at 12:44 PM
@Wasir Rozlan

Very nice resume of the situation, as you see it. However, that’s not how I would interpret the evidence. I’m not buying the inexplicable shit theory for one moment. I don’t think anyone would relish getting on a plane, with inexplicable shit waiting just off stage, ready to jump out and ruin their day.

One doesn’t need to invoke inexplicable shit to account for this.

To me, the only thing thst’s inexplicable is the behaviour of the ATSB. Imagine being the laughing stock of your professional peers around the globe. Imagine having to explain away the physical evidence of a hydrodynamically wrecked flaperon trailing edge, a similarly damaged outboard flap as the consequence of a steep, 15,000 to 25,000fps descent and impact.

If Boeing have actually signed up to this, then there must have been a serious amount of arm twisting behind the scenes. I don’t believe a word of it.

Will be interesting to see what the ICAO make of it, but I wouldn't be surprised if they had already been knobbled, into the bargain.

The real decider was the cold, deep and remote SIO. Who would want to waste any more time and money in searching it? Especially with no agreement likely on where to look next. Z will ultimately be judged the winner, the passenger and crew of MH370 and their NOK, the loosers.

I can see Hoody is fast becoming No1. candidate for the newest entrant to the pollywaffle/mandarin shame thread...


MTF...P2

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RE: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - Peetwo - 08-10-2016

(08-10-2016, 08:25 AM)Peetwo Wrote:  

MAL join the MH370 floating leaf conga line -  

The 'he said, she said, they said...err someone else' said bollocks continues this AM, reported by 'that man' in the Oz...  

Quote:Malaysian airline and ATSB reject MH370 pilot hijack theory

• Ean Higgins
  
• The Australian
  
• 12:00AM August 10, 2016
  [img=0x0]http://pixel.tcog.cp1.news.com.au/track/component/author/0573acb566bb47c45e64e4c55a998aba/?esi=true&t_product=the-australian&t_template=s3/austemp-article_common/vertical/author/widget&td_bio=false[/img]
  

The Malaysia Airlines group yesterday joined the Australian air safety watchdog in a concerted campaign to discredit increasing evidence that Flight MH370 captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah ­hijacked his own aircraft and may have glided it to a landing outside the underwater search zone.

Malaysia Airline System Berhad issued a rare press release on MH370, saying it “notes recent media speculation around Flight MH370 and deliberate pilot ­action” and describing such reports as “speculative”.

“Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah had served Malaysia Airlines for 33 years without any disciplinary or medical issues,” MAS said, adding he had “an ­impeccable safety record”.

The move comes as the Australian Transport Safety Bureau is also mounting an aggressive public relations initiative to dispel suggestions, including from the man leading the underwater search commissioned by the ATSB, that Zaharie flew the aircraft to the end.

A review of earlier reports by the ATSB shows it has changed its publicly expressed level of confidence in its preferred “death dive” theory that MH370 crashed quickly after running out of fuel with dead or unresponsive pilots.

Previously, the ATSB said a controlled glide under pilot command was “possible”.
The ATSB is now publicly placing more weight on the presumed accuracy of satellite tracking data to determine the circumstances in which MH370 went down, having previously warned of limitations with such information.

Transport Minister Darren Chester, the ATSB, the Malaysian government, and Malaysia Airlines have been trying to downplay revelations the FBI found a simulated flight route on Zaharie’s home computer largely matching the zigzag flight MH370 took from Malaysia over the Andaman Sea to the southern Indian Ocean.

They were also stung by a statement from the leader of the underwater search, the Dutch Fugro marine survey group’s project director Paul Kennedy, that he now thought Zaharie might have been at the controls and glided the aircraft down, and that the search area should next move to one based on that ­assumption.

As revealed yesterday, ATSB head Greg Hood told The Australian automatic satellite data that tracked the path of MH370 after transponder and radio contact were lost with the aircraft on March 8, 2014, had been re-­analysed by defence scientists.

He told this newspaper analysis of the signals most closely matched a scenario in which there was no pilot at the controls at the end of the flight.

However, in its earlier public reports, including those based on the Australian Defence Science and Technology Group review last year, the ATSB did not dismiss the controlled glide theory.

The ATSB came up with a “low priority width” of an alternative search area a further 60 nautical miles wide on either side, which, it said, “encompasses the possible but less probable controlled glide scenario”.

Shakes his head and exits stage right, muttering - UDB..UDB!   P2 comment: Embarrassed face for Hoody 

IMO, except for Z being the winner, ROB off JW pretty much nails it:

Quote:ROB
Posted August 9, 2016 at 12:44 PM
@Wasir Rozlan

Very nice resume of the situation, as you see it. However, that’s not how I would interpret the evidence. I’m not buying the inexplicable shit theory for one moment. I don’t think anyone would relish getting on a plane, with inexplicable shit waiting just off stage, ready to jump out and ruin their day.

One doesn’t need to invoke inexplicable shit to account for this.

To me, the only thing thst’s inexplicable is the behaviour of the ATSB. Imagine being the laughing stock of your professional peers around the globe. Imagine having to explain away the physical evidence of a hydrodynamically wrecked flaperon trailing edge, a similarly damaged outboard flap as the consequence of a steep, 15,000 to 25,000fps descent and impact.

If Boeing have actually signed up to this, then there must have been a serious amount of arm twisting behind the scenes. I don’t believe a word of it.

Will be interesting to see what the ICAO make of it, but I wouldn't be surprised if they had already been knobbled, into the bargain.

The real decider was the cold, deep and remote SIO. Who would want to waste any more time and money in searching it? Especially with no agreement likely on where to look next. Z will ultimately be judged the winner, the passenger and crew of MH370 and their NOK, the loosers.

Update: Hood & Foley PR campaign continues on NZ radio

Quote:Title
The search for flight MH370

Total Time 23:56



http://auntypru.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/ntn-20160810-0908-the_search_for_flight_mh370-048.mp3

Well done Kathryn for compiling the most comprehensive Q & A sessions of the ATSB, and in particular Peter Foley, that I think there has ever been in the last 2 years. IMO if nothing else this is a positive sign that under Hoody the ATSB are going to be more transparent & open. This is something that under Dolan would never have happened.

 Other points confirmed from this interview are:

1) The ATSB/DSTO analysis of the 00:19 BFO data, which points to a between 12-20000 fpm ROD, is a new analysis. However there is no indication why the DSTG/ATSB now believe this data to be reliable?

2) The Pemba Island Flap analysis could be pivotal to proving the 'controlled glide' scenario but not necessarily rule out the pilot did it; or 3rd party hijack scenario.

3) The ATSB is still not entertaining (the IG & others) possibility of a more Northerly search on the 7th arc.  

Need to go back over this interview recording as there is a lot to absorb but I am starting to think the Hoody backed ATSB MH370 PR exercise is a positive sign. It could be that the ATSB is trying to recover some of the damage inflicted to their credibility through Dolan's obsessive secret squirrel control of anything related to MH370; or indeed any other high profile investigations ...


MTF...P2

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RE: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - ventus45 - 08-10-2016

An interesting interview.

One little bit jumped out and hit me fair and square in the face..........

Rite near the end, at 22 minutes 13 seconds, Foley says:
<Quote>
"We're doing a bunch of enhanced grid modelling, we're doing ah additional work with marine growth on the ah-um on that flaperon in particular, it was, it is important, it was the first arriver in La Reunion."
</Quote>

The drift modelling within CSIRO (and other places) is ongoing, as we know. Nothing new.

But this bit piqued my interest:
"we're doing ah additional work with marine growth on the ah-um on that flaperon in particular".

Perhaps the French are assisting the ATSB (covertly, with a hint or two, or three, perhaps, behind the scenes), or did he "mis-speak", and the "denials" and "corrections" will come "thick and fast" in an hour or two ?

It will be interesting to see if Ben Sandilands picks up on that, and if he does, what he may (or may not) say about it.

P2, I agree, we need to replay this many times. We need a full transcript. Can you find one ?

---

RE: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - Peetwo - 08-10-2016

(08-10-2016, 10:16 AM)Peetwo Wrote:  

(08-10-2016, 08:25 AM)Peetwo Wrote:  

Quote:Malaysian airline and ATSB reject MH370 pilot hijack theory

• Ean Higgins
  
• The Australian
  
• 12:00AM August 10, 2016
  [img=0x0]http://pixel.tcog.cp1.news.com.au/track/component/author/0573acb566bb47c45e64e4c55a998aba/?esi=true&t_product=the-australian&t_template=s3/austemp-article_common/vertical/author/widget&td_bio=false[/img]
  

Quote:ROB
Posted August 9, 2016 at 12:44 PM
@Wasir Rozlan

Very nice resume of the situation, as you see it. However, that’s not how I would interpret the evidence. I’m not buying the inexplicable shit theory for one moment. I don’t think anyone would relish getting on a plane, with inexplicable shit waiting just off stage, ready to jump out and ruin their day.

One doesn’t need to invoke inexplicable shit to account for this.

To me, the only thing thst’s inexplicable is the behaviour of the ATSB. Imagine being the laughing stock of your professional peers around the globe. Imagine having to explain away the physical evidence of a hydrodynamically wrecked flaperon trailing edge, a similarly damaged outboard flap as the consequence of a steep, 15,000 to 25,000fps descent and impact.

If Boeing have actually signed up to this, then there must have been a serious amount of arm twisting behind the scenes. I don’t believe a word of it.

Will be interesting to see what the ICAO make of it, but I wouldn't be surprised if they had already been knobbled, into the bargain.

The real decider was the cold, deep and remote SIO. Who would want to waste any more time and money in searching it? Especially with no agreement likely on where to look next. Z will ultimately be judged the winner, the passenger and crew of MH370 and their NOK, the loosers.

Update: Hood & Foley PR campaign continues on NZ radio

Quote:Title
The search for flight MH370

Total Time 23:56



http://auntypru.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/ntn-20160810-0908-the_search_for_flight_mh370-048.mp3

Well done Kathryn for compiling the most comprehensive Q & A sessions of the ATSB, and in particular Peter Foley, that I think there has ever been in the last 2 years. IMO if nothing else this is a positive sign that under Hoody the ATSB are going to be more transparent & open. This is something that under Dolan would never have happened.

 Other points confirmed from this interview are:

1) The ATSB/DSTO analysis of the 00:19 BFO data, which points to a between 12-20000 fpm ROD, is a new analysis. However there is no indication why the DSTG/ATSB now believe this data to be reliable?

2) The Pemba Island Flap analysis could be pivotal to proving the 'controlled glide' scenario but not necessarily rule out the pilot did it; or 3rd party hijack scenario.

3) The ATSB is still not entertaining (the IG & others) possibility of a more Northerly search on the 7th arc.  

Need to go back over this interview recording as there is a lot to absorb but I am starting to think the Hoody backed ATSB MH370 PR exercise is a positive sign. It could be that the ATSB is trying to recover some of the damage inflicted to their credibility through Dolan's obsessive secret squirrel control of anything related to MH370; or indeed any other high profile investigations ...

(08-10-2016, 11:24 AM)ventus45 Wrote:  An interesting interview.

One little bit jumped out and hit me fair and square in the face..........

Rite near the end, at 22 minutes 13 seconds, Foley says:
<Quote>
"We're doing a bunch of enhanced grid modelling, we're doing ah additional work with marine growth on the ah-um on that flaperon in particular, it was, it is important, it was the first arriver in La Reunion."
</Quote>

The drift modelling within CSIRO (and other places) is ongoing, as we know. Nothing new.

But this bit piqued my interest:  
"we're doing ah additional work with marine growth on the ah-um on that flaperon in particular".

Perhaps the French are assisting the ATSB (covertly, with a hint or two, or three, perhaps,  behind the scenes), or did he "mis-speak", and the "denials" and "corrections" will come "thick and fast" in an hour or two ?

It will be interesting to see if Ben Sandilands picks up on that, and if he does, what he may (or may not) say about it.

P2, I agree, we need to replay this many times. We need a full transcript. Can you find one ?

"V" unlike the ABC AM/World Today/PM the Radio NZ program doesn't appear to have a transcript attached:

Quote:The search for flight MH370
 
From Nine To Noon, Wednesday 10 August 2016

Listen duration 23′ :56″


Listen
Kathryn Ryan speaks to Chief Commissioner of the Australian Transport Safety Bureau, Greg Hood, and the Bureau's MH370 search programme Director, Peter Foley. A decision on whether to continue the two year long search for the missing aircraft will be made soon, once the painstaking grid search of the 120 thousand square km search area in the Indian Ocean is completed

MTF...P2

---

RE: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - Gobbledock - 08-10-2016

He said she said, they all said, he said some more, there is more to be said so she said

"The move comes as the Australian Transport Safety Bureau is also mounting an aggressive public relations initiative to dispel suggestions, including from the man leading the underwater search commissioned by the ATSB, that Zaharie flew the aircraft to the end"

Pilot suicide is not the first theory on my list. However, it can't be discounted because there still is NOT enough evidence to discount it, that's why. Why are the ATsB now mounting a vigorous campaign against that theory when they of all people know that the 'jury is still out'? Odd behaviour don't you think?

Hoody needs to do one of two things - either shut up and stop defending himself and the ATsB and do an honest, transparent, none-politically directed investigation, and to hell with the consequences, or;
shut up and stop defending himself and the ATsB and just continue towing the party line even though the rest of the world know that there is a coverup and distortion of fact and truth at Government levels taking place.

If this whole event wasn't staged, was an honest accident for which nobody truly knows the reasons why it occurred then WHY DONT THEY CONTINUE THE SEARCH UNTIL THE ANSWER IS FINALLY FOUND?

As I have said before money is not the issue. Every country spends billions upon billions of dollars on complete shit every year, hundreds of billions. So I say stump up the money and push forward, if you governments have nothing to hide. Yeah, I thought as much.....

TICK TOCK

---

RE: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - JoeDColeman1981 - 08-11-2016

To All

Was Petronas Towers a possible target?

Once at FL350 cockpit door may have been opened for pee or Tea.
Hi-jackets may entered the cockpit and told to pilot or Co-pilot whoever was still in cockpit to turn off ACARS (because of what they learnt from an aircraft investigation documentary about the 911 towards Pentagon about ACARS location and out of airspace transponder) and pilot or co-pilot told once out of Malaysia airspace to turn of transponder and turn back to KL.

Possibly the pilot or co-pilot entered UPROB (possibly left turn) instead of UPRON possible right turn. To bide time and ensure plane wouldn’t go to KL.

Pilot or co-pilot may have been told to say everything was ok (goodnight Malaysia 370) before leaving Malaysia airspace. Once out of Malaysian airspace the plane possibly turned left heading towards UPROB unknown to HI-jackers.

Pilot or co-pilot knew that this would go over military installations. Once hi-jackers realised they panicked and pilot warned we are over military installations. And asked pilot to try and avoid, so pilot adjusted heights on autopilot to bide time. Or create this as a distraction so that perhaps military would know Something’s wrong.

Military not reacting (useless) plane carried carried over Sumatra past Medan (disregarding SOM radar track) going thought storm cells on western coast. At 18:25- 18:28 caused severe turbulence causing at power reset.

Going SW possibly still towards UPROB perhaps pilot was told to fly to Australia (like flight Ethiopian Airline 961 in 1996 shown on aircraft investigation). Hi-jackers want to hit a target perhaps Australia was next alternative. Although pilot perhaps said we can't make it to Australia not enough fuel next Alternative may have been perhaps Bali where Z flew to 4 days previous. All the time Z trying to avoid plane crashing into something while still under duress.
Don't make it to Bali plane got so far and engines ran out of fuel then just crashed.

---

RE: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - Kharon - 08-11-2016

Firmly in the NFI camp.

Gee whizz Joe; it is difficult to discount your theory as it is any of the other ‘sane’ theories kicking about.  But it goes to what is IMO the heart of the airborne matter.  Our mate Byron is adamant that ‘the pilot’ did the whole thing, we have equally qualified mates who are equally as adamant that the pilot incapacitation theory is spot on; then there are those who believe that there were ‘others’ involved; or, ‘electronic’ jiggery-pokery was the weapon of choice.  All have merit and non can be proven.  That’s the rub.  ‘Prove it’; even on the balance of probabilities is the only sensible reply.  You pay your money and take your pick; Australia and Malaysia have laid down a massive bet on ‘their’ theory; educated, informed and tested as best they can - but it is still a punt, albeit, made in good faith.

It would be helpful to both armchair experts and those at the coal face if they had answers to many of the ‘tricky’ questions.  Aunty Pru has a short list of several ‘questions’ which, to date, have not been satisfactorily answered.  It is the lack of definitive information which creates the speculation.  For example; it seems to be a given that the aircraft went ‘dark’.  This is one of the very few areas where ‘fact’ is available – but how?  By what method, in which manner and by whom?  We don’t know how, let alone why..  If we knew that then we may find out the purpose of it.  A couple of our ‘electronic’ friends have been examining the circuitry and systems, they are not amateurs; and yet they are still scratching their heads, muttering curses and wearing out pencils to understand how selected, deep system ‘avionics’ were nullified.  

Then there’s folk who, like myself, cannot get past the ‘ground’ investigation and believe that without land based ‘assistance’ non of the current, best-guess’ airborne theories can be tested, let alone ‘proven’.  My own pet theory, unproven, is that someone, somewhere knows exactly what happened.  Find that ‘someone’ and find the aircraft.  Would I take the stand, hand on heart and swear that I am correct?– No: I neither could, nor would.  Idle speculation over a few pints with friends is not quite the same as empirical evidence.

So, the range spectrum remains nebulous; anything goes, from a simple pilot suicide all the way to governmental involvement and on to James Bond rides again.  Fact is often stranger than fiction; we seem to have an abundance of fiction, but very little in the way of hard fact. There is even less in the way of ‘technical’ information.

So mate, your theory is as valid as any other notion, reasoned and reasonable. Something happened, that is for certain sure.  I have NFI what; but if pushed to bet a beer, I’d bet against ‘the pilot’ doing it, but I wouldn’t back much else, not without answers.  Cheers.

Toot toot.

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RE: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - Peetwo - 08-11-2016

Latest from the MH370 'he said, she said' bollocks -

Via the Sun Daily:

Quote:MH370: Experts dispute dive theory
Posted on 10 August 2016 - 10:07pm
Last updated on 11 August 2016 - 01:27am

[/url]
MH370 ... a mystery unresolved. — AFP
[url=http://www.thesundaily.my/sites/default/files/thesun/Catalogue/malaysia_140308_GettyAFP_002.jpg]

KUALA LUMPUR: A test pilot today disputed a new report that says MH370 plunged into the sea at high speed — up to 20,000 feet a minute as there was no debris found by the search party.

Universiti Kuala Lumpur's Test Pilot Prof Dr Mohd Harridon Mohamed Suffian said if Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 plunged into the ocean at high speed, the jetliner would have broken on impact.

He said this could not be because there were no traces of explosion found during the search and rescue operation.

He said this theory could not hold true as there were not even major debris or fuselage found by the searchers and officials since the search operation was launched 888 days ago.

"Weird ... we should find at least small or major debris or even fuselage if the theory is true ... but nothing ... maybe MH370 ran out of fuel so there was no explosion," he said.
However, he was not rejecting the theory that the jetliner dove at high speed.

"We could only accept the data and do research and assumption to break the deadlock and find any debris. That's our main objective," he told Bernama today.

Yesterday, Australian defence scientists who analysed signals from missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 revealed that the Boeing 777 fell very fast before crashing into the Indian Ocean off the coast of Western Australia.

Data analysis and manufacturer simulations showed it was likely that the aircraft had lost engine power before falling out of the sky at a rate of up to 20,000 feet per minute on March 8, 2014.
Asked on the possibility that the jetliner had likely crashed at high speed in the search area, former pilot Captain ® Abdul Rahmat Omar Tun Mohd Haniff said none of the search vessels and aircraft found any extraordinary debris during the search operation.

"The Emergency Locator Transmitter (ELT) designed to activate in a crash did not send any message. The ELT would have been triggered if MH370 dove at 20,000ft per minute. In this case, none.

"This is why I still hold on to the theory of someone gliding the aircraft to a smooth landing, dislodging engine cowling, flaperon etc. Aircraft broke apart only 6km down there following seismic and ocean current activities.

"Therefore, it would have been in pieces. Bodies and seats floating all over. But as for now, still nothing," said the former Royal Malaysian Air Force officer.

Meanwhile, Universiti Putra Malaysia Aerospace Engineering lecturer Assoc Prof Dr Kamarul Arifin Ahmad said the debris from the jetliner should be scattered and floated if it dove into the ocean at high speed.

He said since there were no major debris found at the search area, officials should find another solution or alternative to locate the black box that would eventually solve this mystery.

Meanwhile, the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) in its weekly report said the search vessel, Fugro Discovery, would depart the search area for the last time on Aug 11 and transit to Singapore to be readied for its next project, which is unrelated to the search for MH370.

It said the search plan provides for the remaining search area to be completed using the other vessels, with more than 110,000km² of the sea floor covered so far.

Malaysia, China and Australia will suspend but not terminate the search for the missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 upon completion of the priority 120,000km² search area.
Flight MH370, carrying 239 passengers and crew, disappeared from the radar shortly after taking off from Kuala Lumpur en route to Beijing on March 8, 2014.

The jetliner has yet to be found despite massive search operations in the southern Indian Ocean where the aircraft was believed to have ended its flight after diverting from its original route. — Bernama

MTF...P2

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RE: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - Peetwo - 08-12-2016

(08-11-2016, 10:31 AM)Peetwo Wrote:  Latest from the MH370 'he said, she said' bollocks -

Via the Sun Daily:

Quote:MH370: Experts dispute dive theory
Posted on 10 August 2016 - 10:07pm
Last updated on 11 August 2016 - 01:27am

Update to 'HSSS' bollocks -

Today by 'that man' in the Oz :

Quote:ATSB secretly retracts its consensus claim on MH370 ‘death dive’


The Australian
12:00AM August 12, 2016

@EanHiggins
[img=0x0]http://pixel.tcog.cp1.news.com.au/track/component/author/0573acb566bb47c45e64e4c55a998aba/?esi=true&t_product=the-australian&t_template=s3/austemp-article_common/vertical/author/widget&td_bio=false[/img]
An Australian government agency has secretly retracted its claim that international scientists and air crash investigators had reached consensus that ­Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 went down quickly in a “death dive” rather than being flown to the end by a “rogue pilot”.

The backdown indicates that the Australian Transport Safety Bureau no longer commands unanimous support among its global advisory group for a public relations narrative it is running in conjunction with the Malaysian government and Malaysian Airline System Berhad.

ATSB chief commissioner Greg Hood went on the offensive this week in an interview with The Australian to try to discredit the theory that Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah hijacked his own aircraft and glided it outside the current search area.

Mr Hood insisted analysis of Inmarsat satellite tracking data by Defence scientists had ­concluded that MH370 rapidly descended in an unpiloted crash.

The ATSB has previously claimed it had “consensus” for that view within the Search Strategy Working Group, made up of experts from Inmarsat, Boeing, the US Nat­ional Transportation Safety Board, aerospace group Thales, the British Air Accidents Investigation Branch, the Malaysian Department of Civil Aviation and the Australian Defence Science and Technology Organisation.

It has abandoned that claim, without acknowledging it has done so or explaining why.
Aerospace engineer Richard Godfrey, a member of the independent group of MH370 expert observers, spotted the deletion of the “consensus” claim through a computer change tracker, and revealed it to The Australian.

On July 27, in its regular weekly bulletin, the Joint Agency Co-ordination Centre, established by the ­federal government to direct the search for MH370, promoted the ATSB’s theory that the aircraft went down ­suddenly.

It downplayed FBI findings that Zaharie had run a simulated flight to the Indian Ocean on his home computer that closely matched the zigzag route the Boeing 777 took. MH370 went missing on March 8, 2014, on a scheduled flight from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing.

Mr Godfrey said the most likely explanation for the “consensus’’ removal is that one of the experts on the strategy group complained that they did not support such a conclusion.

“Another possibility is that it was assumed there was a ­consensus, but then some party complained and the published report had to be changed.”

JACC director Annette Clark, ATSB spokesman Daniel O’Malley and Transport Minister Darren Chester’s office ­refused to answer questions about MH370, while the ATSB spokesman who issued the July 27 bulletin, Tim Dawson, hung up when asked to explain the ­deletion. Mr Hood did not respond to a request for interview

MTF...P2  

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RE: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - ventus45 - 08-12-2016

The plot thickens.

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RE: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - ventus45 - 08-12-2016

Larry Vance explains: ...

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RE: Australia, ATSB and MH 370 - Peetwo - 08-16-2016

(08-12-2016, 09:54 AM)ventus45 Wrote:  The plot thickens.

Hoody on the defence yet again.. - WTF?

Another insert to the 'correcting the bollocks' ATSB webpage in reply to 'that man's' article above...

Quote:Ongoing false media reporting on search for MH370 
   

[b]12 August 2016
[/b]
An article published in The Australian by Mr Ean Higgins on 12 August 2016 falsely accuses the ATSB of 'secretly retracting' information from a Joint Agency Coordination Centre operations update on 27 July.

In recent weeks the ATSB has been very careful to accurately describe the Defence Science and Technology (DST) Group’s analysis of the accident aircraft’s rates of descent at the final satellite handshake (known as the 7th arc). This analysis concludes that the metadata associated with the final two satellite communications from the aircraft to the ground earth station indicates that the aircraft was in a high, and increasing, rate of descent.

All the members of the Search Strategy Working Group have reviewed DST Group’s analysis and no objections to the analysis have been provided.

If I were 'that man Higgins' that would be like red rag to a bull -   Oh Hoody get rid of that web page mate and stop being so bloody sensitive, the ATSB remit is not meant to include self-righteous, sanctimonious media propaganda. Remember this mantra..."Without fear nor favour"  - FFS!


MTF...P2 

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