Senate Estimates. - Printable Version
+- AuntyPru Forum (https://auntypru.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Senate Inquiry - Unplugged (https://auntypru.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=4)
+--- Forum: Senate Estimates. 2020 (https://auntypru.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=24)
+--- Thread: Senate Estimates. (/showthread.php?tid=37)
+- AuntyPru Forum (https://auntypru.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Senate Inquiry - Unplugged (https://auntypru.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=4)
+--- Forum: Senate Estimates. 2020 (https://auntypru.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=24)
+--- Thread: Senate Estimates. (/showthread.php?tid=37)
RE: Senate Estimates - 2015. - P7_TOM - 09-28-2015
That man ‘Iggins writing in the Australian casually, but emphatically underlines the very real clout the Senate Standing Committee has, which they share with the ubiquitous ‘man at the back of the room’. In this case, the ANAO. Clearly, Houstoblame and his cosy ‘in-camera’ chat, didn’t work. Then again, maybe it did, the rate bodies were being hurled under busses at the last committee – anything could have happened.
It is a very good thing for all, particularly for the ASA that the ANAO has taken on the task. Their audit will not be constrained by departmentally drafted ‘terms of reference’ which allow them to investigate the tea money; nope, the real deal and no man dare say the ANAO are ‘employed’ by ASA. They may, rightfully, be deemed truly independent of ASA and will conduct an unimpeachable audit, which will, once and for all bury the ‘perception’ of dodgy deals; or, expose the canker and cure it. The cloud of suspicion has been hanging over the ASA for far too long: time to see it off.
Lets hope there is enough integrity in the ANAO to avoid becoming enmeshed in the influence of certain individuals who can, if allowed make even a sows ear look like a silk purse.
The terms of reference will tell the tale true.
RE: Senate Estimates - 2015. - Gobbledock - 09-28-2015
What a crock of shit. An award in one (large flapping) hand which was pathetic. But then I like the 'Ean Higgins truth award' below;
"The Australian National Audit Office has secretly launched an investigation into Airservices Australia amid serious concerns about its financial management, executive use of corporate credit cards and alleged conflicts of interest in awarding big contracts"
More pooh from Sir Large Hands;
"Sir Angus defended Airservices executives’ use of corporate credit cards but said at a recent meeting of the board’s audit risk committee, “a lot of the people, even those with very small amounts of credit card fraud, were referred to the police or had their employment terminated”.
Shouldn't be allowed to bullshit your way out of this mess mate. Large heads (and hands) should roll.
Here's to hoping that a proper ANAO audit is done, not a pony show and Government coverup. The fish rots from the head, so far ASA's head still remains.
Tick tock Miniscule. You look like a bigger incompetent crusty Putz every day. Hope you weren't this bad at peanut farming?
TICK TOCK
RE: Senate Estimates - 2015. - P1_aka_P1 - 09-28-2015
GD - It is going to be interesting to see how deep the ANAO will dig, even more interesting to see what they are allowed to reveal. Much of the ‘history’ leading up to the present impasse is pertinent although there are some delicate sensibilities and reputations to protect. When “K” opens the betting shop, I’ll take a trifecta with In-camera, Behind the Scenes; and Not a Ripple.
Yes I know, I’ve seen some of the entries, but the crafty bugger will not post a final field – so, I’ll wait a while before parting with beer vouchers.
RE: Senate Estimates - 2015. - Kharon - 09-29-2015
Two feature races of interest in the Senate sponsored Auditors Field Day.
Race 5 - the Never-tell Cup – Maiden handicap.
Race 6 - the Rollover Stakes – Hurdles, fences and gates.
That’s right folks: the Senate sponsored ASA race day is going to happen. Thanks to P1, the news is out that the IOS will be running a SP tote and there are some early entrants. However; IOS will not be posting the entries; not until after the next Senate committee session. Suffice to say that ante post wagers on non starters will be refunded; such is the uncertainty. For a fact we know the race is on, we know there is, potentially a big field, but; and a big, serious but; we cannot be certain, as yet of the field. The final tally from the ASA bus stop melee is not available.
MTF after the next Senate stewards inquiry. – Hot tips are plentiful, caveat emptor…..
Toot toot..
![[Image: devilish-wink.gif]](http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg285/vaughanie9813634/devilish-wink.gif)
RE: Senate Estimates - 2015. - Peetwo - 09-29-2015
(09-29-2015, 07:00 AM)kharon Wrote: Two feature races of interest in the Senate sponsored Auditors Field Day.
Race 5 - the Never-tell Cup – Maiden handicap.
Race 6 - the Rollover Stakes – Hurdles, fences and gates.
That’s right folks: the Senate sponsored ASA race day is going to happen. Thanks to P1, the news is out that the IOS will be running a SP tote and there are some early entrants. However; IOS will not be posting the entries; not until after the next Senate committee session. Suffice to say that ante post wagers on non starters will be refunded; such is the uncertainty. For a fact we know the race is on, we know there is, potentially a big field, but; and a big, serious but; we cannot be certain, as yet of the field. The final tally from the ASA bus stop melee is not available.
MTF after the next Senate stewards inquiry. – Hot tips are plentiful, caveat emptor…..
Toot toot..
Luv it "K" Judging from some of the comments from that man Higgin's latest article the tide of public sentiment maybe swinging against Sir A, Harfwit & the ASA exec crew:
Quote:Andy
1 day ago
If there is a perception of a conflict of interest, then you have a conflict of interest.
Brian
1 day ago
Why can't they focus on their responsibilities of providing the maximum radar coverage for safe flight down to late finals level where the existing technology allows. Their pig headed response to make changes to allow this to happen is far more important than their internal money squabbles, but probably the squabbles reflect the internal dissent that prevents Houston from asserting his authority as he was used to doing in the RAAF- or maybe the challenges of a QANGO are not translatable to a ex RAAF commander. Either way, safety must be the B all and end all of Airservices existence and they seem to be in denial about that.
Vicki
1 day ago
So a little bit of fraud is ok?
David
23 hours ago
Narrow field of bidders for this work raises the spectre of excessive financial gain !! Once again the colony is treated with apparent disrespect. .
But the one that could get my vote for October's QOTM, was this from Mick
:Quote:Seems like Angus was desperately trying to recreate his own little RAAF fiefdom beyond Russell and it's turned sour on him. You can't really blame Caesar for wanting to keep the trappings of Rome though, can you?
Somewhat poetic that it's all been undone by a bunch of Senators (again)!
MTF..P2
RE: Senate Estimates - 2015. - Gobbledock - 09-29-2015
Choccy frog to this blogger;
"Somewhat poetic that it's all been undone by a bunch of Senators (again)!"
Pretty much says it all really doesn't it??
Questions;
Why can't/hasn't the responsible Minister Truss, and other knobs before him like Albo, been capable of managing their portfolios compliantly?
Why haven't the same ministers been able to control their department secretary, Mere'd'k'?
Why is it that it is only the Senators who reveal, investigate and attempt to fix these systemic, ongoing issues and it's not the Accountable Ministers doing so?
- Hundreds of minions of dollars worth of taxpayer money pissed away.
- Billions of dollars of industry business destroyed or prevented from growing.
- Continuous malfeasance, crooked deals, snout filled troughs and incompetence.
Yeah, great job assholes!!
RE: Senate Estimates - 2015. - Kharon - 10-01-2015
Even so.
The glaring differences between that which the Senate committees expose, examine and make strong recommendation on and the absolute bollocks spouted by the ‘establishment’ at the latest Safe-Skies gabfest is truly mind boggling.
The harsh reality of regulatory reform transmogrified into a 15 year delay; and, for this the man who has ‘assumed’ (like it or not) that this delay is acceptable to industry and committee alike is given a ‘prestigious’ award by the establishment. UFB, but true.
Then there’s the ASA back slapping and self aggrandising for the ‘superb’ job they have done with the introduction of ADSB; also UFB in light of the stark evidence produced by the Senate committee.
I find it very difficult to reconcile the reality of committee evidence against the fantasy world the ‘establishment’ seem to live in.
Perhaps it’s something in the plonk they serve up, perhaps if I had a glass or two then my rose tinted glasses would begin to work in a proper fashion and I too could differentiate between Paradise Lost and Paradise found, the RAES version.
Aye well, alas today I must work in the real world, far removed from the mythical vision splendid.
Toot toot.
RE: Senate Estimates - 2015. - Peetwo - 10-04-2015
Sense & Credibility??- Norfolk Island ditching six years on.
From the 'Chambers Report' thread:
(10-04-2015, 12:17 PM)kharon Wrote: [quote pid='2289' dateline='1443904181']
Quote:The whole Pel-Air shambles was at the time a disgraceful stain on the aviation ‘agencies’, so it remains today. Hiding under the carpet, pretending it never happened and allowing time to erase the memory is a shame on the Minister and his minions, an insult to both Senate and industry and a FU message from the iron ring to the Rev. Forsyth.
One of the things that is truly disgusting and worse is the performance of the manager in charge of the Pel-Air audit, yet neither internally or publicly has this been investigated. This is a basically unqualified, high salary earner with almost untrammelled power who can, with impunity do exactly as pleases and get away with it. Proof? – read Hansard.
The lack of any remedial action from the DAS (IMO) reflects the true nature of the ‘Skidmore’ reform process. The very event that created an inquiry, scathing criticism, serious recommendations, a ministerial report and much anger has not even been mentioned; let alone remedied. How are we to have any faith in anything Oliver-Skidmore-Twist says, when he does SFA about a clearly defined abomination, with empirical evidence? WTF - A honest man would have fixed it first job and won some credibility. This absence of ‘action’ reflects the Skidmore era; spin, bull and one way glasses.
Hell, the entire debacle sits in the Skidmore office like a pile of stinking, rotting garbage, lived with, accepted as being part of the scenery. How does this DAS who appears evermore incompetent, change resistant and captive to the ‘system’ expect ‘industry’ to believe that reform of the regulator is happening when the likes of Wodger, his works and catamites are unchallenged and remain employed? It begs the question – is this tacit Skidmore approval for more of the same behaviour from CASA officers?
If Skidmore had one ounce of integrity, even the slightest intention of ‘healing’ the rift; or, could give a monkey’s about restoring industry confidence; he would holistically examine the entire CASA involvement with the Pel-Air debacle. Publicly and openly investigate, make the required changes and make a statement promising that this type of behavior will not happen again – never again. Not on his watch. Make it a statement of intent.
Fire Wodger or resign; preferably both. There, is that simple enough. Anything else is window dressing, hot air and duplicitous, disgraceful behaviour, accurately reflecting the true character of He who Wannabe DAS.
Declare it wabbit hunting season before the IOS start to do the investigating, in public, no frills, no pulled punches, no quarter given. Will the mud stick? – Oh yes; absolutely.
Selah.
[/quote]
Quote:Couple more key moments from that infamous hearing, first from Doc JA - who definitely speaks with forked tongue:
Then ffwd to the McComic response on questioning by Nx on the Chambers report at Budget Estimates 3 months later:
And that is where I believe the whole NX 'Motion of Privilege' first started:
161st Report
Quotes from media reports May 2013 to August 2013...
Senate scathing of air safety regulators:
Quote:NAOMI WOODLEY: A Senate inquiry has now found there was little solid evidence to support that view. It's called into question the behaviour of the ATSB and CASA, the Civil Aviation Safety Authority.
NICK XENOPHON: If they've stuffed up in relation to this, where else are they going wrong, because this raises very serious systemic issues...
..NAOMI WOODLEY: He and Senator Xenophon agree that the ATSB's report was seriously deficient.
DAVID FAWCETT: By ignoring all of the systemic issues - the role of the company, the role of the regulator, looking at things like fatigue - by not covering those issues, there are very few if any safety lessons that came out of this report for industry.
And it's those safety lessons that actually help prevent future accidents and those were completely absent from this process...
..NAOMI WOODLEY: Both the ATSB and CASA are standing by their actions. Senator Fawcett says that's disappointing, but not surprising.
DAVID FAWCETT: ATSB and CASA time and again, in the face of quite specific and damning evidence that was drawn from their own records and their own internal documents, have essentially said nothing to see here, move on...
Election squabbling buries air safety recommendations:
Quote:..During estimates hearings in May this year, Senator Fawcett specifically highlighted the risk of Government inaction before the caretaker period began, causing an unacceptable delay to implementing the recommended aviation safety reforms..
..Senator Fawcett points out that the report was tabled on May 23, allowing the Minister a three month window to respond and that given its damning findings Minister Albanese should have made this his top priority, particularly given his promise that ‘nothing is as important as aviation safety.’..
Pel-Air air safety issues spelt out by pilot and Senator, David Fawcett:
Quote:..In 2010 a review was done into the operations of those two agencies.
Of the eight desired outcomes of that review, the committee found that actions by ATSB and CASA failed to deliver against six of the main areas.
I will list them and then talk in more detail about them.
They failed to maximise the beneficial aviation safety outcomes that could have been derived from the investigation into this incident.
They failed to enhance public confidence in aviation safety.
I think we saw that in the controversy in the aviation industry and the media around the report when it was finally released.
They failed to support the adoption of a systemic approach to aviation safety.
They failed to promote and conduct ATSB independent no-blame safety investigations and CASA regulatory activities in a manner that assured a clear and publicly perceived distinction between each agency’s complementary safety related objectives, as well as CASA’s specialised enforcement related obligations; they also failed to avoid to the extent practicable any impediments in the performance of each other’s functions.
They also failed to acknowledge errors and to be committed in practice to seeking constant improvement.
The committee made 26 recommendations to address a number of systemic deficiencies that were identified in both the investigative and regulatory processes but also in funding and reporting. Safety outcomes is one area that I would like to touch on.
Accident investigations are an opportunity for an informed and expert body to sit back and take a considered look at why an incident occurred.
That body may be expert but they are not necessarily the best judges of how the lessons from that incident may be applied to other sectors of the aviation industry.
The committee found that for various reasons and over time the ATSB processes have got to the point where much evidence can be excluded if it does not fall into the categories that they consider will impact on high-risk future operations. So we have a situation where they are making an arbitrary decision to exclude evidence, and without evidence they are not then investigating or reporting on what actually occurred.
That means that other aviation operations are not the beneficiaries of an explanation of occurrences and failures in a system safety approach and what defences failed such that the accident occurred. It has been the traditional approach to identify each of those factors and let the stakeholders make their own assessment. But the safety outcomes are no longer optimised because of this approach of trying to make that arbitrary decision at the front.
That is a significant flaw in the current approach which the committee has recommended be revisited. The report and CASA’s statements in name supported the concept of a systemic approach to aviation safety.
But what we found very clearly was that the investigation focused very quickly on the pilot in command on the night, as opposed to looking at the raft of other factors.
Looking at the James Reason model of system safety, one sees that there are a number of defences which are in place, which include the operating company, the regulator and a raft of things—training et cetera—as well as the pilot. But many of those factors were given, at best, lip-service. They were mentioned in the report so a box could be ticked to say that they were considered, without a detailed consideration of them.
For that reason, the report was quite flawed...
Okay so despite some minor actions/tweaks at a Ministerial level; & much, much rhetoric by several DIPs (including the Senators), has there been any real proactive change; and has the many highlighted safety risks been effectively mitigated in the nearly six years since?? One word NO!
As an example of the complete disdain the Aviation Safety Bureaucracy has for Government, the Parliament and indeed the will of the industry; and despite being put on notice before...
From Budget Estimates 2013 Heffernan on tardiness of answering QON etc.
...here we are nearly 2 weeks out from Estimates (Supp) and still no AQON- UFB!
Department of Infrastructure and Regional Development
MTF..P2
RE: Senate Estimates - 2015. - Gobbledock - 10-04-2015
P2 reckons;
"As an example of the complete disdain the Aviation Safety Bureaucracy has for Government, the Parliament and indeed the will of the industry; and despite being put on notice before..."
Congratulations P2. You've shown what the root cause of that monolithic recalcitrant CAsA system is! Nice one. Now if only you could implement a fix and be able to prove to me you have fixed it (evidence is required) I can then happily acquit CAsA's NCN!
CAsA is a joke. If ever you want to see how 'bad' the problem is I suggest, as an example, you get Karen Casey, John Quadrio, Shane Urquhart and Samantha Hare all together, on one panel, 4 different people who have suffered at the hands of an inept bureaucracy! They are the living, breathing evidence of how f#cked the system is. CAsA, MrDak, Truss, the whole stinking lot of them should hang their heads in shame.
C'mon Kharon, please let me fire up the Houseboats engines, let's go have us some fun, please??
RE: Senate Estimates - 2015. - Kharon - 10-05-2015
Patience grasshopper.
Chasing your tail is one thing, catching it is quite another. There are some pennies left which must drop before the connections are made.
Penny one. Industry seems to be slowly coming to right conclusion – they have been sold a pup.
Penny two. The CASA Board, not quite as quickly, but inevitably must realise that they are being made to look both inept and impotent.
Penny three. The Minister even though well defended from the naked truth must at least get an inkling that the noisome heap, he believes to be an effective system for managing his government safety, is a festering cesspool with a shiny cover. He cannot stay upwind of the stench forever.
Penny four. Last, but not least, the Senators must shortly realise that they have been snubbed, hobbled and made risible. Drowning in platitude and unable, despite dire threats and brandished wet lettuce leaves, still cannot get their questions answered correctly, on time.
Sooner or let’s hope not too much later; the pennies will drop.
Quote:O gentle son,
Upon the heat and flame of thy distemper
Sprinkle cool patience. Whereon do you look?
The HB donkey engine is ticking over nicely; the main engines tuned to perfection, plenty of fuel, the MR is immaculate, crew all full bottle (heh heh), just need the right turn of tide and we my friend will be away to work.
Toot toot.
PS - P2 Food for thought – HERE -.
RE: Senate Estimates - 2015. - Gobbledock - 10-05-2015
Indeed, he who speak with forked tongue has had many pow wows with big white man. He once speak regular with Chief Lying Antelope Byron, Bald Chief Angry Skull, Chief Small Horn Skid'ed'mark and Big Chief Sitting Pumpkin MrDak. Many smoke rings blown while postulating in large Can'tberra teepee near Parliament House reservation. After drinking cheap reservation brew and eating gold top reservation mushrooms many present agree to continue with aviation destruction and rid sky of noisy flying birds. The God of aviation however not happy with Chief Forked Tongue and so decided to call down thunder and use IOS and Senate spirits to try and rid Wigwam of evil Witchdoctor and other bad spirits, with limited success.
So WTF would Richard Dreyfuss know about aviation anyway ?? Here is ol mates bio;
Quote:"Jonathan Aleck is Associate Director of Aviation Safety of the Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA). He previously served as Chief Legal Officer and Executive Manager of CASA’s Legal Services Division.From September 1998 to August 2003, Dr Aleck served as the Representative of Australia on the Council of the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) in Montréal. Immediately prior to his appointment to the ICAO Council, he served as General Manager of CASA’s Aviation Safety Compliance Division, and before that as Regional Manager of the Authority’s West Region.Before and since arriving in Australia in 1988, Dr Aleck has combined a professional and academic career as a lawyer, a legal consultant and a university lecturer. He has taught law and politics at the Australian National University (in both the Faculty of Law and the Public Policy Programme), the University of Canberra, the University of Hawaii and the University of Oregon in the United States, and the University of Papua New Guinea. During his tenure on the ICAO Council he was a Visiting Lecturer in the Institute of Air and Space Law (Faculty of Law) at McGill University in Montreal. He currently serves as a Vice-President on the National Executive Council of the Australian Institute of Administrative Law.Dr Aleck earned his law degree (JD) at Loyola Marymount University in Los Angeles. He holds a Bachelor of Arts degree in psychology and a Master of Arts degree in political science from the University of Oregon, and a Doctorate of Philosophy in law from the Research School of Social Sciences at the Australian National University".
No wonder CAsA is rooted. This bloke has been behind the scenes directing the CAsA ship for 20 years. WTF would he know about aviation, seriously? Does he know what it takes to handle 50 tonne of tin while flying through a life and death battle? Does he know the level of responsibility involved in rebuilding a $ 5 million dollar aircraft engine? Does he know what it takes to design a new runway or engineer an entirely new airport from scratch? Does he understand what it is like to do any of the above tasks while trying to comply with unclear, unworkable, outdated and outlandish regulations?
No, all Dr Voodoo knows how to do is string together bunches of large academic words, dazzle his audience with intellectual speech littered with hypothesis and speculative discussions. FFS please give him a job with Stephen Hawking where they can both wear their immaculate suits, prostrate themselves before a library bookshelf in a cosy Canberra university which is packed with the mysteries of life, love, creation and the Universe, study quantum physics together, author experimental papers on cognitive human behaviour, or just sit there smelling the leather sofa while both sipping pumpkin through a straw as their own lives as well as aviation die a slow death.
Nope, I can see the oil pressure dropping in engine 2. My gauge tells me that the pressure is low, temperature is high and a strange reverberation can be felt shuddering through the system. Are we close to a total shutdown of all things aviation? Hard to say. But we are certainly on track to some sort of failure, it's just the question is will it be a contained failure or a catastrophic failure?
TICK TOCK
RE: Senate Estimates - 2015. - Ziggy - 10-05-2015
So, if I manage to attend the Senate in a couple of weeks, I'll be the Woman at the back of the Room. With a question or two to Doc JA.
After reading the above academic bio with many Bachelors of this and that, entrenched in a Whirlpool of Wanna-Be Wings, which has been circling the same direction for many years. Fail.
Seems there has not been any "stepping outside the box/environment" which perhaps has impeded reality beyond a small radius of the comfy chairs the "untouchables" grace. Fail.
With all of the psychology and human factors etc and law, where is your Aviation experience Doc?
Noticed you worked at the McGill University lecturing.
Ironic how the law here regarding Domestic Travel adopted the MC99 in 2013, without any public knowledge. Very unbalanced and unjust indeed.
Personal, you bet.
Doc, a paper exists which was published by McGill Uni regarding psychological trauma post plane crash. Clearly states that the MC99 needs to adopt a new approach to PTSD post plane crash. As, obviously, the brain is part of the body. As to is Memory. Called Neuro-Plasticity.
So, personally an appeal has been put forward regarding the above swift change of law.
Doc, no-person need to live through this torture. Especially when sneaky laws are changed under your short distance, foggy radar.
Those changes, not just laws swiftly changed regarding the MC99, but in general for the Big Boys, without Industry expertise, just muppets. EXPERTS- could Navigate the Whirlpool to be turned in the direction for the Safety and Survival of Australian Aviation.
Indeed, law is required, that is what a Government is entrusted to do.
However, all I see is a stride through certain levels of Aviation Law and Psychology. What a mix.
Ever flown a plane or been in a "situation" of unsafe practice? Or spoken to people that have?
No.
Then pack your useless arse, shove off.
Think about your duty of care.
Think again.
See you soon.
My questions will not be on Notice Doc.
Anyone else out there.
Opportunity.
Knock knock
Tick Tock.
Ziggy
RE: Senate Estimates - 2015. - Gobbledock - 10-05-2015
Hey Zig, you go girl! Would be great to see you there. And I have to hand it to you, you have a bigger set than any of the obsfucating bullshit artists who will be sitting on the end of the Senators questions. They wouldn't have the testicular fortitude to look you in the eye and give you an honest answer to one of your genuine questions! They would scamper like some of the dickheads outed on Ashley Madison have done, run for cover and go to ground!
One of the more amusing things I have found is how Doctor Voodoo has a degree in psychology!!! Haha. He is one of the most senior leaders in possibly Australia's worst sociopathic and psychologically dysfunctional bureacracies to ever exist!! Nice one Doc. Did you earn that degree from the same institute that taught Dr Poohshan?
The lunatics really are running the asylum!
This ones for you Ziggy, it's all about CAsA;
https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PL7E7E07D5545A33C7&v=FvnN9tnAUvo
RE: Senate Estimates - 2015. - P7_TOM - 10-05-2015
Ah - hah! He do voodoo, can do, Doo-doo to your head. Makes sense (sort a); someone gets to the ‘new boys’, does the lobotomy, castration, hypnosis and induction ceremony. I just wonder is that part of the remit or, does it cost extra to become a mindless, vacuous clone of the last patient? I’ll ask Oliver – he’ll know.
Is susceptibility to suggestion part of the specification for a new DAS? It certainly seems that way. No matter, maybe they could hire three at one time, save a dollar. Triplets are very, very fashionable now, easy to manufacture and require no skin off anything; all done by remote control and things you learned to do at school. Life eh? and you believed you’d go blind.
RE: Senate Estimates - 2015. - Kharon - 10-07-2015
Pathway to a private members Bill.
It was one of the strangest starts to a full dress BRB ever. Grim and (for that crew) strangely quiet. My fault thinks I, for the e-mail loops questionnaire had been long and required some thought. But, the IOS wanted to get a very clear picture before getting down to the big questions. Turned out the questions had framed just how serious the situation for industry has become and that concern was reflected through the PAIN associates responses.
For example:- Opinion of the Senate Committee was sought in relation to the ‘agencies’ response to the inquiries and recommendations made, and the subsequent lack of positive results . I have, for brevity, paraphrased the sample answers below and edited comment.
a) Dismissed as being impotent by agency heads. (b) Constrained by time, frustrated by protocol, undermined by DoIT; ignored by the Minister. © Unable to ‘enforce’ their recommendations.
This evidenced and supported simply by the total lack of tangible or measureable change in any of the agencies. There was a small negative, a minority ; but the evidence offered in support was measured, credible and discussed.
d) The Senators have used the ‘aviation situation’ as a grandstand, taken what credit was available and waltzed off to the next, vote winning gig without a backward glance. Believing the job was done.
In short, it has been almost six years since the Pel-Air ditching off Norfolk Island; there has been no reform of the regulation, neither CASA or the ATSB has changed in any degree; in fact the entrenched attitudes have hardened, many of those who played major roles for the agencies have been promoted or, remain employed. This at best, reflects a job not finished, recommendations ignored, reviews by Forsyth and TSBC nugatory.
Quote:“No one, least of all those who have had the Senate wet lettuce leaf waved at them, from a distance, is in the slightest concerned”. “Business as usual”.
It is fair to say that opinion of the ASA, ATSB and CASA boards reflects the same outcome. This cavalier attitude to Senate committee opinion, evidence, rhetoric and opinion is clearly seen, easily measured by the lack of any positive change; if you discount the fancy window dressing. Of which there is much; Safe-Skies being the prime example.
There were some questions which the BRB would like answered by the SC; sample below.
Why is Fawcett not deeply involved, active and; in the Miniscules face, 24/7?
Why is no one challenging the Ministers non response and lack of perceivable change?
Why is the SC still tolerating Dolan, his empire, air safety reports and minions?
Why is the SC able to live with and accept the ‘Skidmore’ master plan for ‘reform’ in 15 years time? When 15 months is far too long for many.
Why is the SC accepting the Houstoblame get out of jail cards – without question?
It is not a good look; is it? Not to those who must work and survive despite the system.
This all led naturally to the reasons why; interesting (long loud) discussion and remarkable, in that the two ‘sides’ eventually combined to provide a unanimous result. The debate focused on Merdek/Minister and the Navigation Act; and stalemated. Neither side prepared to concede. I should mention here that the e-mail response was equally divided and just as strongly supported (and worded). The conclusion: that while both are in place, there is little chance of any serious recommendation, reform or change ever happening.
Next question what’s to be done?
Three answers were eventually drafted for consideration:-
The heads of the three departments must be changed and the selection criteria and appointment must taken out of the remit of the DoIT. Board selection within strict guidelines, approved by a Senate committee and Minister. The sad history of meaningful reform is littered with evidence of incompetence, bias, arrogance, contempt, external manipulation and influence.
Industry generates the income to pay people for work done; excellence is rewarded, incompetence results in demotion or, termination. If industry is to support the impost of ‘Boards’ then those boards must clearly define the pathway and vision for their ‘agency’ in plain English; stating the target and the plan for achieving their stated goals. Then be held responsible for performance, in Senate committee, in public. Take the money – take the blame, most people in responsible positions are ‘accountable’ to the ‘paymaster’ We pay, in spades; for measurable incompetence. Does that make any sense? – not a whit.
Last, but probably most important is the need to cure the Act. It is clear that the DoIT have no intention of changing what is a flawed document; it suits their purpose too well. Clearly neither ASA, ATSB or CASA have any thought of changing the ACT, not while the ‘established’ spinners and weavers have total control. A process of simple elimination defines where and with whom the built in, carefully guarded ‘control’ lays.
It was unanimous that PAIN submit a proposal, to the independent Senators, for a private members bill to redraft the Navigation Act (s) into one document. If no one else will act responsibly and change the Act, then perhaps the independent and cross bench Senators can as a matter of conscience, be persuaded to force the desperately needed changes through which will be of benefit the industry and the nation. Matter of conscience really.
That’s it for today children; there was a lot more; but, most of you reading will be well aware of those issues, so I won’t keep banging on. But that FWIW is the tale of how the proposal for private members bill came into being and achieved unanimous support.
GD asks – What about Merdek and the three Stooges? – (A) Do the words ‘landslide’ and no contest mean anything to you; no brainer, we had a whip around for tickets – got enough for first class, one way....
Toot toot.
RE: Senate Estimates - 2015. - Peetwo - 10-08-2015
(10-04-2015, 04:00 PM)Peetwo Wrote: Sense & Credibility??- Norfolk Island ditching six years on.
Quote:Couple more key moments from that infamous hearing, first from Doc JA - who perhaps has also studied the silver tongue methodology of economic delivery:
Then ffwd to the McComic response on questioning by Nx on the Chambers report at Budget Estimates 3 months later:
And that is where I believe the whole NX 'Motion of Privilege' first started:
161st Report
Pel-Air air safety issues spelt out by pilot and Senator, David Fawcett:
Quote:..In 2010 a review was done into the operations of those two agencies.
Of the eight desired outcomes of that review, the committee found that actions by ATSB and CASA failed to deliver against six of the main areas.
I will list them and then talk in more detail about them.
They failed to maximise the beneficial aviation safety outcomes that could have been derived from the investigation into this incident.
They failed to enhance public confidence in aviation safety.
I think we saw that in the controversy in the aviation industry and the media around the report when it was finally released.
They failed to support the adoption of a systemic approach to aviation safety.
They failed to promote and conduct ATSB independent no-blame safety investigations and CASA regulatory activities in a manner that assured a clear and publicly perceived distinction between each agency’s complementary safety related objectives, as well as CASA’s specialised enforcement related obligations; they also failed to avoid to the extent practicable any impediments in the performance of each other’s functions.
They also failed to acknowledge errors and to be committed in practice to seeking constant improvement.
The committee made 26 recommendations to address a number of systemic deficiencies that were identified in both the investigative and regulatory processes but also in funding and reporting. Safety outcomes is one area that I would like to touch on.
Accident investigations are an opportunity for an informed and expert body to sit back and take a considered look at why an incident occurred.
That body may be expert but they are not necessarily the best judges of how the lessons from that incident may be applied to other sectors of the aviation industry.
The committee found that for various reasons and over time the ATSB processes have got to the point where much evidence can be excluded if it does not fall into the categories that they consider will impact on high-risk future operations. So we have a situation where they are making an arbitrary decision to exclude evidence, and without evidence they are not then investigating or reporting on what actually occurred.
That means that other aviation operations are not the beneficiaries of an explanation of occurrences and failures in a system safety approach and what defences failed such that the accident occurred. It has been the traditional approach to identify each of those factors and let the stakeholders make their own assessment. But the safety outcomes are no longer optimised because of this approach of trying to make that arbitrary decision at the front.
That is a significant flaw in the current approach which the committee has recommended be revisited. The report and CASA’s statements in name supported the concept of a systemic approach to aviation safety.
But what we found very clearly was that the investigation focused very quickly on the pilot in command on the night, as opposed to looking at the raft of other factors.
Looking at the James Reason model of system safety, one sees that there are a number of defences which are in place, which include the operating company, the regulator and a raft of things—training et cetera—as well as the pilot. But many of those factors were given, at best, lip-service. They were mentioned in the report so a box could be ticked to say that they were considered, without a detailed consideration of them.
For that reason, the report was quite flawed...
ventus45 - Joining the dots to MH370..
Much like the ASAM blog piece from Feb 2013 (Blast from the past), the following post from ventus45 nails down the bureaucratic bollocks that we were expected to swallow as acceptable behaviour by Chief Commissioner Dolan, in his attempt to obfuscate the complicity of the ATSB in the CASA Pel-Air cover-up.
As a background the ventus45 post relates to the following video segment from the 28th February 2013 AAI, Senate inquiry public hearing:
Also relevant to the Ventus post is this video segment to that same public hearing:
Quote:ventus45
Aussie my dear girl, the "modern" Annex-13 IS the PROBLEM, not the answer.
A clasic example is our own ATSB.
Dolan's masterpiece on the ditching at Norfolk Island is up there as a prime example of the problem.
Years, to produce what ?
Rubbish.
May I remind you of the little matter of the spat between Chief Commissioner Dolan (ATSB) and Senator Fawcett, the Senate Estimates ?
Remember that ?
A recap.
They were arguing over which "amendment" to Annex-13 was applicable to the "ditching".
It was all about whether or not the cvr/fdr could, should, would, or must, be recovered.
Dolan used a later amendment than both the date of the accident and the date of the initial decision and report, to post-facto justify his prior decision not to recover them.
He wiggled and squirmend, but he got away, effectively, scott free.
We (the people) lost - yet again.
Sir Humphry Appleby on the other hand, probably smiled.......
The ATSB did not even do any significant investigation of the evacuation or the life jackets etc.
They are "significant" requirements in Annex-13 are they not ?
APPARENTLY NOT.
Last I heard, the life jackets were still in the Police Station on Norfolk Island.
It makes you wonder why we have a Senate anyway, when such "incompetence and deriliction of duty" is "allowed" to pass for "world's best practice".
Way beyond reasun me-lud, way beyond reason.
If you have been around as long as I have, grey hair, thick glasses, etc, you can look back at older, earlier reports, and older editions of Annex-13.
It becomes clear, that over the years, the industry has very skillfully, and very deliberately, progressively amended Annex-13, to water down it's fundamental original purpose, "enhance safety", and have managed to morph it, into a document, seeming designed only to "protect the industry".
With each passing amendment, required time frames get longer, investigative requirements get diluted, and reporting requirements get diluted almost to the point of "why bother at all". Modern investigations thus take longer, and they produce less substance at the end.
If you read reports of 20 years ago, and compare them to those of recent years, the trend is clear, as is the obvious intent.
In short, Annex-13's reporting "milestones" have become the "millstone of the truth", in this, and many other investigations.
In days of old, "genuine" investigations were updated more or less "on the fly" so to speak.
Interim reports were issued, and recommendatiions produced, issued, published, and acted upon, also, "on the fly", in public, with full disclosure. The "final report" effectively "consolidated" the lot.
What we have today, is, unfortunately, entirely different.
Annex-13 gives the industry the luxury of playing the time game, to protect itself, it's own interests, not the public interest.
The best way to do that, is to release as little as possible, as late as possible.
People eventually forget, time goes on, it drops of their radar, especially so with the media.
In the case of MH-370, they are not just "letting the money run out", more importantly, more significantly, and more specifically, they are deliberately "running out the clock".
I listened to an address on ABC Radio by Angus Houston in Adelaide recently.
He spent almpost the entire speech on MH-17.
What little he said about MH-370 (at the very end) was all about "damping down expectations" - "it took us 75 years to find HMAS Sydney" ... etc.
What does that tell you ?
Cast your mind back.
When did Angus come on scene with the JACC ?
When did he leave the JACC ?
The JACC still exists, and does what, of substance ?
The Chinese have walked away from the sham of this investigation already.
How long before it is shut down entirely ?
Hoorah for ventus45 & a packet of TimTams...P2
RE: Senate Estimates - 2015. - ventus45 - 10-09-2015
A whole packet !!
Oh shuks.
My Cholesterol figures will go into the red !!
RE: Senate Estimates - 2015. - Kharon - 10-09-2015
Signs of the times.
Nicely done Ventus and to the point. The next big question is ‘why’ have the Senators been unable to get anything changed; both the Fawcett (AWOL) and Xenophon rhetoric should have sent minions scurrying to mend the fences, put the minister on high alert and produced almost immediate results. Phhuuttt, the balloon collapses, which is a bad enough thing, but since then, things have only become worse.
Look at the latest series of ATSB reports, see any signs of improvement? Beggared if I do. What I can discern is a milk and water approach to meat and potato matters. The recent (in ATSB time scale) events at Melbourne, serious matters in need of ‘deep’ analysis and demanding change. Did we get anything we paid for; No. Anything remotely useful; No. Do we still have to endure Dolan at estimates; Yes. Can the ATSB troops still do useful reports; Yes; so why are they not? Since the Pel-Air inquiry no change – pointless exercise? You bet.
Look over the way into the CASA HQ any major changes there? McComic departed the fix, but that was a natural event; Terry buggered off before he dropped off the twig, no great surprise there; then eventually we got Skidmore-Twist. A confused, confounded, captured boy brought in to do a mans job; better men left out of the race and then the great nothing. Unless you count endless hours spent reconfirming the Forsyth report – remember that?; shelf-ware now, just a view says the master of hot air, gab, party line and sod all else. More time and more effort achieving SFA. I will avoid the Skidmore selection of crew, conflict with the board and capture by the establishment. Avmed remains a total nightmare, time will come when Pooh-Shambollic will be revered as a ‘reformer’; wait and see.
You can always have a look at the ASA performance, but take your bucket (to vomit in) and your spade (to dig your way out of the mud). Argh, can’t be bothered even rehashing; at least Staib and Clark departed the fix, which, in anyone’s jungle cannot be a bad thing.
The only positive things to emerge are absolute, categorical proof that the Senate ‘Wet Lettuce Leaf’ exists, and that sound and fury signify Nada. Gods alone know how much all this wheel spinning has cost the industry and taxpayer; but it is clear how we shall pay for it, with a defunct, derelict industry and in blood and smoking body parts, that’s how. But no matter, no one will be responsible. Now that is a fine result, don’t you think?
There is a line which when crossed takes you from being part of the solution to being a part of the problem. Is there a problem? – you bet. Can the Senate resolve it?; seems more unlikely as the years roll by.
Selah.
RE: Senate Estimates - 2015. - P7_TOM - 10-09-2015
Bang! the stable door closes -
Too little to late for the aviation industry; the new contracts are signed; Australia gets at least a semblance of progress; aviation gets stuck in a time warp, longingly watching the colt of old regrets streak across the paddock. Oh, what could have been, unless someone wakes the boy from the Paddo Push up. Then, just maybe?
However this article – HERE - in ‘The Mandarin’ is well worth the small effort to read.
Quote:No more selection criteria — jargon and pro-forma duty statements are out, replaced with inspiring ads that tell candidates what the department is trying to achieve
The Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet’s new way of recruiting looks a lot like the private sector. Unless you’re looking for a transfer and wading through APSJobs, candidates won’t see classification or salary bands in job ads anymore
The FAQ for candidates says the changes are about getting the right people into the right jobs, and being more flexible and fit for purpose for both candidates and business areas. That means it’s doing away with the artificial barriers that discourage good candidates currently in the private sector from applying, as well as opening up the candidate pool for those whose experience and backgrounds don’t neatly fit a rigid selection criteria.
Good find P2, ‘The Mandarin is well worth reading.
RE: Senate Estimates - 2015. - Kharon - 10-10-2015
Sandy posted :-
Quote:"CASA said it was “particularly interested” in receiving grant proposals on aviation safety issues with heliports; aviation safety issues with aerodromes and buildings in Australia; and aviation medicine clinical standards evidence base."
Can you believe this? Millions upon millions of taxpayer and industry dollars down the drain, now they want to spend even more. One glimmer perhaps, recognition that they are unable to quantify safety issues as above by themselves.
The piece de resistance is however "safety issues"....."aviation medicine clinical standards evidence base". Yes well AVMED will need a heavy rearguard action in view of the bill before the US Congress to do away with most avmed exams because there is no supporting safety case. That's right nil, zero, no evidence, none, of increased safety of flight any more than the same regime would make your next road trip any safer.
I am not certain how much clearer we can make it to the Senate; the evidence is overwhelming. It government does not accept it's responsibility, the CASA board cannot control the department and Skidmore continues on his present circular track, the smoke screen being generated to cover the introduction of some of the worst law ever drafted for and inflicted on Australian aviation will work. Then the blame for the approaching shambles will rest squarely with those who could have acted, but did not.
Will someone with a bit of political power please, put the brakes on this farcical department. hire someone with a blind clue to run the place before the damage becomes un-repairable, the industry irredeemable.